Signs of the Times - What’s happening to our world?

[Spartan]

That's an interesting thing... "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger". Viruses do kill. Sometimes they kill a lot of people. So, after a whole bunch of people die, it makes the ones left stronger? But the other thing going on here is God and his prophecies. People in any religion can say, "God said he would send disasters and plagues, because you didn't want to listen to him. Now you will pay the price." Great, nice guy. But if true, what are we supposed to do to get right with God? Do what the Christians say?

We say the same thing that the Jews say:

"If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.” - 2 Chronicles 7:14

 

[CG Didymus]

(T)he true Physician is debarred from administering the remedy,

Well, undebar him then. Right now, if the world turned to the Baha'is and said, "Fix this", what would Baha'is do? What is the Baha'is remedy for Covind-19? For cancer? For the flu? What is the Baha'i plan where you could say "do this" and this epidemic will be over."

Then, while you're fixing things, what is their answer for the economic problems and how will Baha'is implement them? In one thread I asked you about farm workers and other low-end jobs. You implied that all people will be able to become anything they want, and I asked do people really "dream" about being janitors or garbage collectors or to be bent over all day in the hot sun picking strawberries? What is the Baha'i plan for those kinds of jobs? That often get filled by "illegal" aliens or by people that society has made into "outcasts"? In a Baha'i world, who are going to be those people that have no other talent but to take those bottom-level jobs? And once the Baha'i physician has fixed everything, why will God continue to send new diseases to plague the world? Because you know he will.

Let's hear some practical and applicable ideas that would work right now... not some plan that might someday happen when all people become loving and nice. Because that might never happen. What are the first steps, right now, that all the people of the world can take? And don't say "Oh, too realize we are all one and all religions are one." No, that's too big. What are the baby steps that lead to those things?

 

[aeon6]

Thank you for your wit about the topic. I'll be sure to sanitize my language for the children.
The "us versus them" demographic-handling seemed quite prevalent whenever I've been in the usa.
An invisible disenfranchisement of a largely insignificant population, but "invisible" only until they are seriously crossed. Then you will ironically find Atlas shrugging instead of the multitudes dreaming to be symbiotic with something greater than themselves. Depending on who you are right now in america, chances of a dignified life despite the crisis diminish because of the realization that capitalism is draconian.

 

[CG Didymus]

I am a black and white guy, I give black an white answers, that's me, always has been. That is how I see the world and to me why waste time and beat around the bush? I see an urgency, I pass on the urgency. I do not desire to be popular or liked in that process. I leave that up to others.

Are you a "black and white" guy in Normanton? Are you a "black and white" guy when you visit the Christian Church and have diner with the Pastor? Or, do you tone it down in order to become acquainted with them? All I'm saying is "Black and White" attitudes aren't working here. That's something a Fundamentalist Christian would do. They would say, "Jesus is the only way. You are going to hell unless to turn to Jesus." Why don't you listen to them? Because you don't believe that is really true. Your religion teaches something different.

Well, that is how you sound to the Hindus, Jews, the Sikhs, and all the others. You're saying, "Baha'u'llah is the return of Christ, the Mahdi, the Maitreya.... He has the answers for today. Your religion was true, but it's an old message. Baha'u'llah has brought a new message." And how is that "black and white" statement received? Not very well. It's interpreted as, "This guy thinks his religion is better than ours. He thinks my promised one has returned in his guy? I don't think so."

Baha'is haven't earned the respect to blurt out their message like that. Even in those "mass teaching" projects, the Baha'is tried to break the news that they believed "Christ" has returned gently. Some of these projects were done on Indian Reservations. They had very few native people that were Baha'is. In one case a Baha'i family at one reservation had relatives in another. I think that even one or two people in the other reservation had also become Baha'i. Now, the non-native Baha'is came from everywhere to the reservation. Many of the people on the reservation were related. The Baha'is were sent out in two's or three's to go through the neighborhood to knock on doors. They invited the people to come to a meeting that night and watch a movie or listen to a talk about the Baha'i Faith... and there will be food. They people would ask, "What is the Baha'i Faith?" The Baha's would then say a few things about the basic beliefs.

Some people would come, because they were relatives of those native Baha'is and because of the food. The movie and the talk were very basic. They didn't knock them over the head with a bunch of "heavy" beliefs and doctrines of the Baha'i Faith. "All people are one. All religions are one. God is one." kind of stuff. And then, all a person had to do is sign a declaration card. In the fine print it said that they accepted Baha'u'llah. I doubt that many of them knew exactly what that meant. I think they were just trying to be nice. Anyway, they were now Baha'is. Maybe as many as five or even nine at one place. But then, the Baha'is went back home. The one or two local Baha'is now had to "deepen" the new Baha'is?

A "nine-day deepening institute" was created by the leaders and organizers of these mass-teaching projects. Other teaching projects had failed to give any support or deepening to help the local Baha'is with the influx of new Baha'is. This deepening institute took some of the new Baha'is, not all could commit to doing it, and put them through a like a self-help seminar. They went through the Four Valleys and Hidden Words. After nine days people were changed. But the meetings were attended by not only the new Baha'is from the reservation, but also some of the other Baha'is. Usually the total number was pretty small, like less than ten people. So it was very intimate. It became like a spiritual awakening.

Anyway after a few months and several mass-teaching projects and several nine day deepenings, the institute was stopped. The wife of Bill Sears said something like that it was creating spiritual haves and have nots. For me it was very similar to what happens when Christians go to a Pentecostal/Charismatic Church and get Baptized in the Holy Spirit.

Anyway, that was 50 years ago. What happened? Have Baha'is still been doing "mass-teaching" projects? Do they have programs to deepen new Baha'is? Do they still continue to have firesides? If so, do the Baha'is present the Faith in "black and white" terms or do they try and adjust the talk to better fit and not offend the people they are talking too?

 

[CG Didymus]

Thank you for your wit about the topic. I'll be sure to sanitize my language for the children.
The "us versus them" demographic-handling seemed quite prevalent whenever I've been in the usa.
An invisible disenfranchisement of a largely insignificant population, but "invisible" only until they are seriously crossed. Then you will ironically find Atlas shrugging instead of the multitudes dreaming to be symbiotic with something greater than themselves. Depending on who you are right now in america, chances of a dignified life despite the crisis diminish because of the realization that capitalism is draconian.

This place needs you. I need you. You're way too knowledgeable and observant about a reality that most of us can't see or don't want to see.

 

[CG Didymus]

We say the same thing that the Jews say:

"If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.” - 2 Chronicles 7:14

I don't know if you can or want to but, one thing that no Christian has ever given a response to is the William Miller calculations that added up to Jesus returning in 1844. If you ever research it out, could you give me your analysis and opinion on it.

Baha'is love it because then they can say that "The Christ" did in fact return in 1844. One of my problems with the Baha'i interpretation of that, though, is that in 1844, it wasn't their main prophet Baha'u'llah that "returned" as Christ... it was his forerunner The Bab that "returned". So they have a "twin" return of Christ... Both The Bab and Baha'u'llah. And they have their verses they use to show that a twin return was prophesied. So how do you like that? Two "Jesus's". But, that's not all, Muhammad was also a return. So, since Jesus, there have been three "returns" of Christ.

 

[aeon6]

A multitude of Jesii: just what this realm needs. Vatican cardinals telling the AIDS-afflicted masses to "be fruitful and multiply", to this very day. Many other things in today's world will seem somehow upside-down. It's up to you to invert them favorably.

 

[Spartan]

I don't know if you can or want to but, one thing that no Christian has ever given a response to is the William Miller calculations that added up to Jesus returning in 1844. If you ever research it out, could you give me your analysis and opinion on it.

Baha'is love it because then they can say that "The Christ" did in fact return in 1844. One of my problems with the Baha'i interpretation of that, though, is that in 1844, it wasn't their main prophet Baha'u'llah that "returned" as Christ... it was his forerunner The Bab that "returned". So they have a "twin" return of Christ... Both The Bab and Baha'u'llah. And they have their verses they use to show that a twin return was prophesied. So how do you like that? Two "Jesus's". But, that's not all, Muhammad was also a return. So, since Jesus, there have been three "returns" of Christ.

If Christ returned in 1844 where's the millennium of peace?

 

[aeon6]

Our world is fast changing. Now this virus is closing down the world.

Does your religion say anything about these times? My religion says plenty.

So what does this virus mean to religionists? Is it a prophecy of your Faith? Or do you think it is preparing the world for something?

Please share your views as I have many passages in my Faith referring to these times but want to know what you all think, believe and feel.

Those without a Faith may like to comment on the financial and social implications of the world shutting down, how long it might last and what long term effect it could have.

Will this cause permanent changes to humanity?

They cause not only permanent changes, but will dictate that your rainbow doesn't exceed its limits.
Baha'is here are a burden in Scandinavia, they hide behind the "madonna" statuary with never a return commitment to society and its tenets. Yet they DEMAND the unthinkable: to me that is the definition of Ingrate.

The scourge will separate the wheat from the chaffe as a matter of darwinian survival. Suddenly, old friends and allegiances, except the strongest of bonds, will become archaic and redundant. Rise to the occassion though, for "What's on the other side may be better than you think"

 

[Spirit of Light]

They cause not only permanent changes, but will dictate that your rainbow doesn't exceed its limits.
Baha'is here are a burden in Scandinavia, they hide behind the "madonna" statuary with never a return commitment to society and its tenets. Yet they DEMAND the unthinkable: to me that is the definition of Ingrate.

The scourge will separate the wheat from the chaffe as a matter of darwinian survival. Suddenly, old friends and allegiances, except the strongest of bonds, will become archaic and redundant. Rise to the occassion though, for "What's on the other side may be better than you think"

I have never had any problem with people of Baha`i faith in Norway, nor do I have any problem with them on this forum.

 

[aeon6]

You've predictably missed my point.
No further waste.

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus hasn't returned according to the Bible.

But Jesus has returned according to the Writings of Baha'u'llah.

“O kings of Christendom! Heard ye not the saying of Jesus, the Spirit of God, "I go away, and come again unto you"? 2 Wherefore, then, did ye fail, when He did come again unto you in the clouds of heaven, to draw nigh unto Him, that ye might behold His face, and be of them that attained His Presence? In another passage He saith: "When He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth." 3 And yet behold how, when He did bring the truth, ye refused to turn your faces towards Him, and persisted in disporting yourselves with your pastimes and fancies. Ye welcomed Him not, neither did ye seek His Presence, that ye might hear the verses of God from His own mouth, and partake of the manifold wisdom of the Almighty, the All-Glorious, the All-Wise.” The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 191

 

[dfnj]

You're contradicting yourself, you've stated that you believe Source connects to all of us, and then not to the Jews specifically...
I get the Rabbinic Jews claim exclusivity, and you're going opposite to that; yet they were divorced

Yeah, I thought about that when I wrote it. It's just that as you probably know from my previous posts I find the idea of a "chosen" people to be very offensive. It's in the category of "God Bless America" where my mind screams "and everywhere else too" every time. I simply cannot except an omnipotent God of unconditional love chooses favorites. Anyone who worships a god who chooses favorites is, in my opinion, not worshiping the one true God.

People who worship a god of judgment are worshiping a lesser god. An omnipotent God of unconditional love is perfect, whole, and complete without any needs or desires. Such a god would not have any need or desire to be judgmental. An omnipotent God of unconditional love and would just love every aspect or expression of His creation equally. If people want justice it comes from our system of secular laws and secular law enforcement. I very much doubt God is going to carry out revenge against people we hate because they have sinned against us during our life. Although the idea God will cause the people we hate eternal suffering is a very popular idea I think it's petty and immature.

An omnipotent God of unconditional love has no limits with His ability for forgiveness. And even if God was judging people, God would use His omnipotent powers to ensure everyone gets saved through divine education in the afterlife. The idea God would simply give up on someone or use cruel and unusual punishment for all eternity makes no sense in this context. But people take too much pleasure in the idea others will suffer for all eternity to ever remove the hate from their hearts. I've had several arguments with born-again Christians who had happy joyful satisfying glint in their eyes after they told me I was going to burn in Hell for all of eternity.

I don't have any deep hatred in my heart where I would ever accept eternal suffering is okay. Trump's behavior leading up the coronavirus I find despicable and will most likely result in many people dying from Trump's inaction or incompetence. As immoral as I think Trump's behavior, or lack of behavior, has been I don't think he should suffer for all of eternity. I simply do not accept the idea our one true God would stoop to Trump's level and actually have an opinion. This is why I choose to only have faith in an omnipotent God of unconditional love where everyone is saved no matter what. This is good news for some people because for some people, like Trump, where it takes almost all of God's omnipotent powers to love them!

For people who cause me suffering I just take solace in the idea people who cause suffering in others will experience suffering in their own life in equal proportions. This has been my experience. People who have no value for human life live a life where they are not valued. And people who value others are treated with respect.

 

[dfnj]

But Jesus has returned according to the Writings of Baha'u'llah.

“O kings of Christendom! Heard ye not the saying of Jesus, the Spirit of God, "I go away, and come again unto you"? 2 Wherefore, then, did ye fail, when He did come again unto you in the clouds of heaven, to draw nigh unto Him, that ye might behold His face, and be of them that attained His Presence? In another passage He saith: "When He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth." 3 And yet behold how, when He did bring the truth, ye refused to turn your faces towards Him, and persisted in disporting yourselves with your pastimes and fancies. Ye welcomed Him not, neither did ye seek His Presence, that ye might hear the verses of God from His own mouth, and partake of the manifold wisdom of the Almighty, the All-Glorious, the All-Wise.” The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 191

I have no idea what this scripture means. Please explain it.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The Jews who say that are apparently unaware that in a number of Messianic passages, the Messiah is killed and then "...war continues until the end" (Daniel 9). Also see Isaiah 53:6, etc. Those passages demand a 2nd Coming to fulfill the remaining prophecies.

Many are just as unaware the remainder have been fulfilled, just as Jesus Christ the Son fulfilled prophecy and not many men saw that had happened, so did Baha'u'llah, the Glory of God, the Father do the same.

There was also Muhammad and the Bab that fulfilled many Biblical Prophecy, which when shown how, is as sound as any prophecy that can prove Christ. In fact in proving Christ by Biblical Prophecy also lays the sound foundations of recognising that Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah are also foretold.

What Faiths are now found in the Holy land is also another proof as to what is God's way. The Jews, the Christians and the Baha'i, who represent all Faiths now have the Holy Land as a point of pilgrimage and that is all found in Biblical prophecy.

To reject any one of God's Messengers, actually rejects all God's Messengers.

Regards Tony

 

[dfnj]

Quote me some more bible: it shows how truly deluded you are. And you'll do it until eternity too. That is blind persistence.
Remember the emperor's new clothes.

This is generally my thinking. People who quote scripture do not know what they are talking about. And further, many people quote scripture and think they are speaking for God. As if anyone know the mind of God. The Bible was written and interpreted by men. Nobody knows the mind of God. The mind of God is beyond our comprehension.

 

[dfnj]

To reject any one of God's Messengers, actually rejects all God's Messengers.

Yeah, but the Jews think their messengers are the only right ones. The Christians think their messenger is the only right one. And the Muslims think theirs is the only real one. All three of the major religions reject the other's messengers and only except their own as important.

 

[Trailblazer]

This place needs you. I need you. You're way too knowledgeable and observant about a reality that most of us can't see or don't want to see.

I agree, and I do not think the Baha'is see the full reality, as I will point out in a new thread I am about to post.
Stay tuned, I want your input.

I have missed seeing you here lately. I hope you are faring okay in California. We are struggling to get by up here in Washington State, but the Baha'is seem to have their heads in the sand and it is 'business as usual.'

But regardless of what the Baha'is do or don't do, see or don't see, I will always believe that Baha'u'llah was who He claimed to be because the evidence is incontrovertible. The Bible prophecies He fulfilled alone are enough evidence to prove who He was, but there is so much other evidence, including His own Self, His Revelation, and His Writings.

 

[aeon6]

The way you people here refer to "god" is laughable.
If the god within you (many don't have one) can't negotiate with the world at large with your intellect, there was never an internal god to be reasoned with. Instead more human folly, to the point of humor. And this should deja-vu, yet humans will continue to stratify themselves in daft hopes of something they know is NO LONGER possible. Adapt.

 

[Trailblazer]

This is generally my thinking. People who quote scripture do not know what they are talking about. And further, many people quote scripture and think they are speaking for God. As if anyone know the mind of God. The was written and interpreted by men. Nobody knows the mind of God. The mind of God is beyond our comprehension.

Scriptures do not represent the mind of God. Nobody knows the mind of God.
Scriptures are simply the Messengers of God speaking as the Voice of God. The reveal the Will of God for every age but they do not ever reveal the mind of God. That remains a complete mystery.