Signs of the Times - What’s happening to our world?

[Trailblazer]

And again, be honest and admit that Baha'is do not believe in or accept all the doctrines and beliefs of the other religions. And Baha'is don't believe what the other religions believe about their founders and/or prophets. And, that Baha'is don't necessarily agree with what the other religions say about who and what God is and what his plans for the world are.

No other religions believe in or accept all the doctrines and beliefs of the other religions. No other religions believe what the other religions believe about their founders and/or prophets. No other religions agree with what the other religions say about who and what God is and what his plans for the world are.

So why is it only the Bahais who are constantly on trial for this offense?
I rest my case.

 

[Trailblazer]

Like when Baha'is continually tell Christians that Jesus died on the cross and is not coming back, Baha'is are pretty much denouncing the beliefs of those Christians.

Like when Baha'is continually tell Christians that "they do not believe" that Jesus died on the cross and is not coming back, Baha'is are pretty much "disagreeing with" the beliefs of those Christians.

Like when Christians continually tell Bahais that "they do not believe" that Baha'u'llah was the return of Christ, Christians are pretty much "disagreeing with" the beliefs of those Baha'is.

What does it mean to denounce something?
English Language Learners Definition of denounce
: to publicly state that someone or something is bad or wrong : to criticize (someone or something) harshly and publicly. : to report (someone) to the police or other authorities for illegal or immoral acts.Mar 13, 2020
Denounce | Definition of Denounce by Merriam-Webster

 

[TransmutingSoul]

In fact @loverofhumanity - I have said this to others before - as far as I am concerned - there is nothing about the message you tout that is original - it is all recycled from what is presented before and in other cultures

You need to open your eyes before you go proclaiming Baha'u'llah as the answer to the world's problems - other than the IMO foolish approach of writing letters laden with veiled curses and threats to the world leaders - who probably tossed those letters in the trash - what is the actual plan to make a difference and show me one place where it has succeeded.

The issue is we forget and corrupt the teachings. Humanity always has done this.

This is progressive revelation taught by all God's Messengers. In all Messages it tells of a future when faith has to be renewed.
Krishna says;

"Whenever there is decay of righteousness ...... and there is exaltation of unrighteousness,
then I Myself come forth... for the destruction of evil-doers, for the sake of firmly establishing righteousness, I am born from age to age." --- KRISHNA- Bhagavad Gita- fourth discourse

Buddha says;

" ..'I am not the first Buddha Who came upon this earth, nor shall I be the last. In due time another Buddha will arise in the world, a Holy One, a supremely enlightened One, endowed with wisdom in conduct, auspicious knowing the universe, an incomparable leader of men, a Master of angels and mortals. He will reveal to you the same eternal truths which I have taught you. He will preach to you His religion, glorious in its origin, glorious at the climax and glorious at the goal, in spirit and in the letter. He will proclaim a religious life, wholly perfect and pure, such as I now proclaim.' His disciples will number many thousands, while Mine number many hundreds.'
Ananda said,
'How shall we know Him?
'The Blessed One replied:
'He will be known as Maitreya, which means He Whose name is "kindness.'"

Note: As you may already know, Baha'u'llah's given name, Husayn, is Arabic for "kindness"

Baha'u'llah confirms what all past Messengers have offered.

“.. And now concerning thy question regarding the nature of religion. Know thou that they who are truly wise have likened the world unto the human temple. As the body of man needeth a garment to clothe it, so the body of mankind must needs be adorned with the mantle of justice and wisdom. Its robe is the Revelation vouchsafed unto it by God. Whenever this robe hath fulfilled its purpose, the Almighty will assuredly renew it. For every age requireth a fresh measure of the light of God. Every Divine Revelation hath been sent down in a manner that befitted the circumstances of the age in which it hath appeared.... “

This is showing the link that unites all Faith given by the Same One God. We are one human race.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

If you can't it's going to be hard to work with the people in the other religions. And it will give the appearance that Baha'is are denouncing the beliefs of the other religions by not accepting who their prophet says he is.

Let's be honest CG....
It is not the Baha'is who are denouncing anyone else's beliefs, it is 'certain' other religious people who are denouncing Baha'i beliefs, as well as Baha'u'llah.

Evidence is evidence and that is easily provable, but I do not have time for that because I am now posting primarily on another forum.

Show me some evidence of a Baha'i denouncing anyone else's beliefs.
Remember, having different beliefs is not akin to denouncing other people's beliefs.

 

[Trailblazer]

Then, do it. Work with the Hindus and Sikhs... and Christians, and the others.

We cannot "work with" people who constantly deride us and our beliefs and our Prophet.
This is basic psychology and basic logic.

I can work with Christians because they will work with me.
The evidence for this is splattered all over this forum and the other forum I post on.
Almost all Christians follow their teachings of "do onto others" but not all religions follow those teachings.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Then, do it. Work with the Hindus and Sikhs... and Christians, and the others. You think you've got the message the world needs, then don't just talk about, or tell of how some other Baha'is are doing it, or how the UHJ has written about it. You do it. Right here. You bring unity. You're the one that has the plan and the message. Show us the way.

CG Baha'u'llah has said the Peace and security of mankind is unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established.

That unity is not achievable until the councils of the pen of the most high are heeded. Here is the passage;

".. The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established. This unity can never be achieved so long as the counsels which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed are suffered to pass unheeded... "

Those councils have been given by every Messenger. So I see that all Faiths have to come to a realisation that all God's Faiths are needed and important, the Baha'i Faith will rise from obscurity in this process.

I only offer Love from my Faith, I see many offer Love from theirs, but are yet to see a kindly heart is the best way.

Another thing to consider is that when I offer what Baha'u'llah said, my heart also knows it was what every other Messanger has offered from their heart. I do not belittle any past Messenger, Message, or saying that came from God, I embrace it.

I can not be responsible for another's response. That is their choice.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Tony, he is not "denouncing" Baha'u'llah's teachings. He is denouncing how Baha'is, in his opinion, are using these threads to proselytize. And I agree, but I don't mind it.

With all due respect, nobody knows what the Baha'is intentions are, and they should not pretend to know because that is arrogant.

66: O EMIGRANTS! The tongue I have designed for the mention of Me, defile it not with detraction. If the fire of self overcome you, remember your own faults and not the faults of My creatures, inasmuch as every one of you knoweth his own self better than he knoweth others.

The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 45

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You have been repeatedly called out on the meaningless babble you dish out around here - and we shall keep doing that as long as you try and peddle your worthless faith-based wares under the guise of "sharing"

Tony, he is not "denouncing" Baha'u'llah's teachings. He is denouncing how Baha'is, in his opinion, are using these threads to proselytize.

CG do you see that people who post passages from scripture as offering meaningless babble?

I guess for a Baha'i, if people do this we welcome it and will not see the oassage as proselytizing, as there is nothing better than the quotes word of God to show our unity and One God. The explanations some give with those quotes may be the issue?

Regards Tony

 

[ManSinha]

So why is it only the Bahais who are constantly on trial for this offense?

I already answered that - I shall help your memory

Show me members of another faith that constantly push their own in nearly every post they make. It is only @Trailblazer, @Tony Bristow-Stagg and @loverofhumanity that push "Baha'u'llah this" and "Baha'u'llah that" in nearly every post you make along with copious helpings of mean nothing gobbledegook from your literature - a lot of us consider that proselytizing -
Stop proselytizing and we can have a rational conversation

Also - no other no other religion has a prophet who claims to be the "return" of the prophets of other religions - that is another reason you get singled out - saying other religions are false is one thing - you are right everyone does that - saying that your prophet is the return of the Muslim Christian and Hindu gods is an affront that few will tolerate - again look to what you are doing before you go calling them misguided.

I have repeatedly challenged you and other Baha'i's to post anything new or unique that your prophet taught - you either run away, or provide meaningless grandiloquent verses or hit my post with funny emojis - anything but a straight answer to a very simple question.

And you Susan @Trailblazer should realize that using "funny" emojis sarcastically is a forum rule violation - you have done to me thrice in the past few days when you cannot come up with a rational, reasonable reply. Do it again and I shall report you for rule violations

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Stop proselytizing and we can have a rational conversation

I am happy to explore the oneness and unity of humumanity under One God.

It would be dishonest for me to say that unity can, or will happen in any other way.

I also know the Sikh faith shares much with what Baha'u'llah has written. I am happy for you to share all that will unite us as one people under One God, it is not about conversion, it is about finding the good in each faith, that will ultimately unite us.

Regards Tony

 

[ManSinha]

I also know the Sikh faith shares much with what Baha'u'llah has written. I am happy for you to share all that will unite us as one people under One God, it is not about conversion, it is about finding the good in each faith, that will ultimately unite us.

As long as you push "Baha'u'llah and his prescriptions" in your posts - I have no interest in talking or conversing further - go in peace

 

[TransmutingSoul]

As long as you push "Baha'u'llah and his prescriptions" in your posts - I have no interest in talking or conversing further - go in peace

In peace it will be. Stay well, be happy.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

when you cannot come up with a rational, reasonable reply.

I have nothing to say to you because you cannot have a 'civil' dialogue.

I have broken no forum rules because I consider your posts Funny.

 

[Trailblazer]

Also - no other no other religion has a prophet who claims to be the "return" of the prophets of other religions

No they don't, but how is that the Bahais fault?
Baha'u'llah is the one who made the claim, we didn't.

 

[ManSinha]

I have nothing to say to you because you cannot have a 'civil' dialogue.

Then stop replying to my posts - you always act like you want to have the last word - even when you have "nothing to say" - the number of posters that agree with my rejoinders to you falsify that claim - I can be civil with a civil person - not someone who continues to push an agenda even when they have been repeatedly called on it.

Baha'u'llah is the one who made the claim, we didn't.

But you believe it and defend it and hold him up as a "manifestation of god" and have said he speaks for god - ergo you will have to bear the burden of defending those claims - or else stop those antics or are you <gasp> distancing your self from what he said? That would be disingenuous because you have claimed in the past the everything the B man said is the ultimate and utter truth.

There are many posters on here who consider your posts vague gibberish with no real substance except sly and pathetic attempts at pushing your tiny cult and proselytizing - may be it is time I did the same and stopped considering you as someone worth my time

 

[Trailblazer]

Then stop replying to my posts

Gladly.

I do not have time to reply to your posts even if I want to. You can have the last word.

I do not even read your posts because I know it will be negative and life is too short to deal with this kind of haranguing. If the other Baha'is want to read and reply that is their choice. I have another forum I am busy on so I won't be one of the Baha'is doing what you 'believe' we do.

 

[CG Didymus]

I do not interpret it that way. You can interpret it that way if you want to.

Here's some more verses about God killing people...

Revelation 6:8 8 I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.
​

Here's more people getting killed, but this is where the three "Woes" are mentioned.

Rev 8:7-13 The first angel sounded his trumpet, and there came hail and fire mixed with blood, and it was hurled down on the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up.
8 The second angel sounded his trumpet, and something like a huge mountain, all ablaze, was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned into blood,
9 a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.
10 The third angel sounded his trumpet, and a great star, blazing like a torch, fell from the sky on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water—
11 the name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter.
12 The fourth angel sounded his trumpet, and a third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them turned dark. A third of the day was without light, and also a third of the night.
13 As I watched, I heard an eagle that was flying in midair call out in a loud voice: “Woe! Woe! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the other three angels!”
​

Here people are tormented but don't die. And it is the end of the first Woe. Which means that Baha'is have to show how this fits in with Muhammad.

Rev 9:1-18 The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss.
2 When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss.
3 And out of the smoke locusts came down on the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth.
4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.
5 They were not allowed to kill them but only to torture them for five months. And the agony they suffered was like that of the sting of a scorpion when it strikes.
6 During those days people will seek death but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.
7 The locusts looked like horses prepared for battle. On their heads they wore something like crowns of gold, and their faces resembled human faces.
8 Their hair was like women’s hair, and their teeth were like lions’ teeth.
9 They had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the thundering of many horses and chariots rushing into battle.
10 They had tails with stingers, like scorpions, and in their tails they had power to torment people for five months.
11 They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon and in Greek is Apollyon (that is, Destroyer).
12 The first woe is past; two other woes are yet to come.
​

This next part happens during the second Woe.

13 The sixth angel sounded his trumpet, and I heard a voice coming from the four horns of the golden altar that is before God.
14 It said to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, “Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.”
15 And the four angels who had been kept ready for this very hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind.
16 The number of the mounted troops was twice ten thousand times ten thousand. I heard their number.
17 The horses and riders I saw in my vision looked like this: Their breastplates were fiery red, dark blue, and yellow as sulfur. The heads of the horses resembled the heads of lions, and out of their mouths came fire, smoke and sulfur.
18 A third of mankind was killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur that came out of their mouths.
​

All this happens and we haven't even gotten to the beasts and dragons yet. The other important thing is... the return hasn't happened yet.

​

 

[Trailblazer]

All this happens and we haven't even gotten to the beasts and dragons yet. The other important thing is... the return hasn't happened yet.

You can believe whatever you want to about that, because you have free will.
Please let me know when Jesus shows up, I would not want to miss Him.

 

[CG Didymus]

I do not interpret it that way. You can interpret it that way if you want to.

While looking through Revelation, I found another Baha'i interpretation problem. Baha'is say the number 666 is a prophecy about the year that the Umayyad dynasty starts. Which was 661Ad. But Revelation, for me, makes it clear that it is not a date, but some kind of mark or something. So do the Baha'is have an alternative interpretation of what the mark is and who it is referring to? Here's the quotes...

Rev 13:16-18 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads,
17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.
18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666.

Rev 14:9-11 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand,
10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.
11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

Rev 19:20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.​

 

[Trailblazer]

While looking through Revelation, I found another Baha'i interpretation problem.

The Bible can be used to say anything you want it to say....
Baha'is do it, Christians do it, Jews do it, atheists do it, and you do it....

The logical point is that interpretations do not prove anything since there are so many of them.