sikh afterlife?

[nathanielfirst]

hello,
wondering if the sikhs believe in reincarnation as deva or hungry ghost like buddhism or just as animals? how long does reincarnation in narak last? generally? and what is it like?

and actually, does the mind attain any sort of expanded awareness when it finally approaches God after so many rebirths? like Buddhism and Baha'i have something like this, Jaina does... so wondering if that that rests with God is a Human Psyche, with a human soul and emotions and reasoning, tho it can see God, or is it something larger?

 

[xkatz]

To be honest, when it comes to reincarnation, Sikh Dharma is rather vague IMO. Reincarnation occurs because of karma and one reincarnates to learn lessons and to become better beings. According to Sikh Dharma, when one is perfected, more or less, they reach salvation. That is my current understanding of how it works. I do not think Sikhs think people can become supernatural beings like devas, and I am not sure about much else when it comes to afterlife according to Sikhi.

 

[GURSIKH]

hi Nathanielfirst

i am copying my post from similar thread posted by my friend Marco in this section

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/sikhism-dir/93118-reincarnation.html







Sikhi s stand on issue is Dharmic ie Nirvaana /Oneness with ONE ,


when one dies with unsatisfaction , desires ,lust , attachment Maya ..... this Unsatisfaction ,unresolved issues leads to rebirth of soul ,endless cycle




BUT when with GRACE ,PERFECT KARMA ONE MEETS THE GURU ,UNDERSTANDS ,LIVE , EXPERIENCE THE GURUS SHABAD /WORD , then veil of illusion /maya is torned away , Satisfaction is obtained , desires are fulfilled , PERMANENT HOME /MANSION OF LORD IS FOUND WITHIN . then there is no birth no death ,all affairs are perfectly resolved .


Nij gẖar mahal pāvhu sukẖ sėhje bahur na ho▫igo ferā. ||3||
Within the home of your own inner being, you shall obtain the Mansion of the Lord's Presence with intuitive ease. You shall not be consigned again to the wheel of reincarnation. ||3||

Nij gẖar vāsā pā▫e sabaḏ vajā▫e saḏā suhāgaṇ nārī.
Obtaining an abode in the home of her inner being, she vibrates the Word of the Shabad, and is a happy soul-bride forever.


Mā▫i▫ā mohṇī nīgẖrī▫ā jī▫o kūṛ muṯẖī kūṛi▫āre.
Fascination with Maya made her homeless; the false are cheated by falsehood.


Ḏah ḏis kẖojaṯ ham fire mere lāl jī▫o har pā▫i▫aṛā gẖar ā▫e rām.
I wandered around, searching in the ten directions, O my dear beloveds, but I came to find the Lord in the home of my own being.

 

[SadhSangat]

Always beating me to the punch Gursikh ji lol. YEa exactly what he said ^^

 

[nathanielfirst]

many kinds of Buddhism say, all souls are destined to be saved. Do you think this is true in Sikh? or will some souls always wander in samsara?

 

[GURSIKH]

many kinds of Buddhism say, all souls are destined to be saved. Do you think this is true in Sikh? or will some souls always wander in samsara?

8 Jap Guru Nanak Dev

ਹੁਕਮੀ ਉਤਮੁ ਨੀਚੁ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਲਿਖਿ ਦੁਖ ਸੁਖ ਪਾਈਅਹਿ ॥
hukamee outham neech hukam likh dhukh sukh paaeeahi ||
By His Command, some are high and some are low; by His Written Command, pain and pleasure are obtained.

ਇਕਨਾ ਹੁਕਮੀ ਬਖਸੀਸ ਇਕਿ ਹੁਕਮੀ ਸਦਾ ਭਵਾਈਅਹਿ ॥
eikanaa hukamee bakhasees eik hukamee sadhaa bhavaaeeahi ||
Some, by His Command, are blessed and forgiven; others, by His Command, wander aimlessly forever.

Wahe guru ji ki fateh

 

[nathanielfirst]

agaion much thanks! you are extremely knowledgeable!

 

[WayFarer]

ਇਕਨਾ ਹੁਕਮੀ ਬਖਸੀਸ ਇਕਿ ਹੁਕਮੀ ਸਦਾ ਭਵਾਈਅਹਿ ॥
eikanaa hukamee bakhasees eik hukamee sadhaa bhavaaeeahi ||
Some, by His Command, are blessed and forgiven; others, by His Command, wander aimlessly forever.

When I first read this I thought that "by His command, wander aimlessly forever" was an odd command for a compassionate being. I came to believe, however, that (perhaps) it is not by His command that they wander forever, but by His command they cannot cease their wandering until they become enlightened. And it is through their own (egotistical) choices they fail to become enlightened and are thus forced to continue to wander aimlessly in accordance to/with His command.

 

[GURSIKH]

you are extremely knowledgeable!

my parents says opposite ,anyway thanks for kind words

 

[GURSIKH]

When I first read this I thought that "by His command, wander aimlessly forever" was an odd command for a compassionate being. I came to believe, however, that (perhaps) it is not by His command that they wander forever, but by His command they cannot cease their wandering until they become enlightened. And it is through their own (egotistical) choices they fail to become enlightened and are thus forced to continue to wander aimlessly in accordance to/with His command.

Hi Wayfarer ji ,

thanks for lovely interpretation !

ਇਕਨਾ ਹੁਕਮੀ ਬਖਸੀਸ ਇਕਿ ਹੁਕਮੀ ਸਦਾ ਭਵਾਈਅਹਿ ॥
eikanaa hukamee bakhasees eik hukamee sadhaa bhavaaeeahi ||
Some, by His Command, are blessed and forgiven; others, by His Command, wander aimlessly forever.

my take
i am wandering aimlessly , even this is your Hukam (Command!

 

[WayFarer]

my take
i am wandering aimlessly , even this is your Hukam (Command!

Thank you Gursikh Ji, as always I appreciate your thoughts on my posts.
I am curious as to your take on the quote. Why, if it would be possible to know, why would Waheguru wish for someone to wander aimlessly. It would seem to my humble understanding that Waheguru would not wish anyone to stay away from Him forever, but instead come to Him when their feet have found the path home.
I must confess that my understanding is imperfect. I also have a hard time understanding why people should fear a loving God.

 

[GURSIKH]

Thank you Gursikh Ji, as always I appreciate your thoughts on my posts.
I am curious as to your take on the quote. Why, if it would be possible to know, why would Waheguru wish for someone to wander aimlessly. It would seem to my humble understanding that Waheguru would not wish anyone to stay away from Him forever, but instead come to Him when their feet have found the path home.
I must confess that my understanding is imperfect. I also have a hard time understanding why people should fear a loving God.

Hi my Respected Wayfarer ji

why would Waheguru wish for someone to wander aimlessly.

ਭਾਣੈ ਭਰਮਿ ਭਵੈ ਬਹੁ ਜੂਨੀ ਸਭ ਕਿਛੁ ਤਿਸੈ ਰਜਾਈ ਜੀਉ ॥੨॥
By Your Will, we wander in doubt through countless lifetimes. Everything happens by Your Will. ||2||

ਨਾ ਕੋ ਮੂਰਖੁ ਨਾ ਕੋ ਸਿਆਣਾ ॥
No one is foolish, and no one is clever.

ਵਰਤੈ ਸਭ ਕਿਛੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਭਾਣਾ ॥
Your Will determines everything;

ਅਗਮ ਅਗੋਚਰ ਬੇਅੰਤ ਅਥਾਹਾ ਤੇਰੀ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਕਹਣੁ ਨ ਜਾਈ ਜੀਉ ॥੩॥
You are Inaccessible, Incomprehensible, Infinite and Unfathomable. Your Value cannot be expressed. ||3||

ਖਾਕੁ ਸੰਤਨ ਕੀ ਦੇਹੁ ਪਿਆਰੇ ॥
Please bless me with the dust of the Saints, O my Beloved.

ਆਇ ਪਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਤੇਰੈ ਦੁਆਰੈ ॥
I have come and fallen at Your Door, O Lord.

ਦਰਸਨੁ ਪੇਖਤ ਮਨੁ ਆਘਾਵੈ ਨਾਨਕ ਮਿਲਣੁ ਸੁਭਾਈ ਜੀਉ ॥੪॥੭॥੧੪॥
Gazing upon the Blessed Vision of His Darshan, my mind is fulfilled. O Nanak, with natural ease, I merge into Him. ||4||7||14||



Kabeer ji asking same question

ਐਸਾ ਤੈਂ ਜਗੁ ਭਰਮਿ ਲਾਇਆ ॥
You have misled the world so deeply in doubt.

ਕੈਸੇ ਬੂਝੈ ਜਬ ਮੋਹਿਆ ਹੈ ਮਾਇਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
How can people understand You, when they are entranced by Maya? ||1||Pause||

ਕਹਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਛੋਡਿ ਬਿਖਿਆ ਰਸ ਇਤੁ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਨਿਹਚਉ ਮਰਣਾ ॥
Says Kabeer, give up the pleasures of corruption, or else you will surely die of them.

ਰਮਈਆ ਜਪਹੁ ਪ੍ਰਾਣੀ ਅਨਤ ਜੀਵਣ ਬਾਣੀ ਇਨ ਬਿਧਿ ਭਵ ਸਾਗਰੁ ਤਰਣਾ ॥੨॥
Meditate on the Lord, O mortal being, through the Word of His Bani; you shall be blessed with eternal life. In this way, shall you cross over the terrifying world-ocean. ||2||






ਹਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲਾਇਦਾ ਹਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਹੀ ਮਤਿ ਦੇਇ ॥
The Lord Himself leads us astray in doubt; the Lord Himself imparts understanding.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਾ ਮਨਿ ਪਰਗਾਸੁ ਹੈ ਸੇ ਵਿਰਲੇ ਕੇਈ ਕੇਇ ॥
The minds of the Gurmukhs are illuminated and enlightened; they are so very rare.

ਹਉ ਬਲਿਹਾਰੀ ਤਿਨ ਕਉ ਜਿਨ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਇਆ ਗੁਰਮਤੇ ॥
I am a sacrifice to those who find the Lord, through the Guru's Teachings.

ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕਿ ਕਮਲੁ ਪਰਗਾਸਿਆ ਮਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਵੁਠੜਾ ਹੇ ॥੪॥
Servant Nanak's heart-lotus has blossomed forth, and the Lord, Har, Har, has come to dwell in the mind. ||4||

 

[Onkara]

Sat Sri Akal Gursikh Ji
Great quotes.
It seems doubt plays a role in distracting us from Truth, doesn't it.
What then should one do when faced with doubt?

 

[GURSIKH]

Sat Sri Akal Gursikh Ji

What then should one do when faced with doubt?

then we shud pray

ਖਾਕੁ ਸੰਤਨ ਕੀ ਦੇਹੁ ਪਿਆਰੇ ॥
Please bless me with the dust of the Saints, O my Beloved.

 

[WayFarer]

Thank you for those verses Gursikh ii.
Perhaps it is my own interpretation, one that I may be alone with, but when I read

ਭਾਣੈ ਭਰਮਿ ਭਵੈ ਬਹੁ ਜੂਨੀ ਸਭ ਕਿਛੁ ਤਿਸੈ ਰਜਾਈ ਜੀਉ ॥੨॥
By Your Will, we wander in doubt through countless lifetimes. Everything happens by Your Will.
​

I think that the "By Your Will" part implies that it was by Waheguru's Will that none would come to Him without understanding/putting forth the effort to (try to) learn (understand) who Waheguru is. By that I mean that the world offers many distractions, but when someone is spiritually mature enough to seek its source then they can find their way to Him. I find the quote by Kabeer ji to fall along these lines.
(Please understand I am not trying to be argumentative. I am told that when I ask questions sometimes I come across as such. That is not my intent. I am afraid that my social skills can be somewhat lacking at times. )

 

[Onkara]

Thank you for those verses Gursikh ii.
Perhaps it is my own interpretation, one that I may be alone with, but when I read

ਭਾਣੈ ਭਰਮਿ ਭਵੈ ਬਹੁ ਜੂਨੀ ਸਭ ਕਿਛੁ ਤਿਸੈ ਰਜਾਈ ਜੀਉ ॥੨॥
By Your Will, we wander in doubt through countless lifetimes. Everything happens by Your Will.
​

I think that the "By Your Will" part implies that it was by Waheguru's Will that none would come to Him without understanding/putting forth the effort to (try to) learn (understand) who Waheguru is. By that I mean that the world offers many distractions, but when someone is spiritually mature enough to seek its source then they can find their way to Him. I find the quote by Kabeer ji to fall along these lines.
(Please understand I am not trying to be argumentative. I am told that when I ask questions sometimes I come across as such. That is not my intent. I am afraid that my social skills can be somewhat lacking at times. )

Hi Wayfarer my friend
You take a fresh angle to my own understanding. May I take a moment to share my understanding too My understanding is that Waheguru is already a sure existance in Kabeer Ji and SGGS Ji. Waheguru is without doubt and exists without doubt, or rather when there is no doubt in your or my mind then Waheguru is known in the same sense that we know we exist i.e. without doubt.

The words make this more difficult to undertand than it is. My interpretations is that once we stop doubting God then we know that all that exists and that happens (or happened) is due to Hukam - Waheguru's will.

When we doubt we assume naturally that we are the doubter and that there is a choice or decision on which we doubt. E.g. should I take the car or walk?... even the smallest decision can arise as doubts and once a doubt arises it is like you and I have to make a decision which will potentially change our lives. Not to mention the biggest decision to believe in Waheguru's existance and will (hukam). However through Japa, mediation and ultimately discourse and reading the scriptures we can come to a point where doubt is deminished into complete acceptance of Waheguru, and with that comes complete acceptance or understanding of all as His Will (hukam).

I like Gursikh's answer to my question above. What do we do about doubt? He says "Pray". When we pray do we not become closer to God's will and so we are relived of the suffering of being the doer with doubts? I am not sure but I like to think so.

I think you are absolutely right in your post too. We need to reach a point of spiritual maturity. How does one recognise that spiritual maturity? My guess to an answer is that we knuckle down and our spiritual search doesn't stop, we are not so easily thrilled with material gains and distractions, we need to know the ultimate Truth of truths.

Your questions and posts always come across humble, friendly and considerate

Perhaps Gursikh Ji can share some other lines or thoughts too

 

[WayFarer]

Thank you Onkarah, your reply makes sense and approaches mine at a far more concise approach than I would likely have achieved myself.

 

[Onkara]

Thank you Onkarah, your reply makes sense and approaches mine at a far more concise approach than I would likely have achieved myself.

Thank you WayFarer, your humility and knowledge your share is worthy of praise and an admirable characteristic

 

[GURSIKH]

Thank you for those verses Gursikh ii.
Perhaps it is my own interpretation, one that I may be alone with, but when I read

ਭਾਣੈ ਭਰਮਿ ਭਵੈ ਬਹੁ ਜੂਨੀ ਸਭ ਕਿਛੁ ਤਿਸੈ ਰਜਾਈ ਜੀਉ ॥੨॥
By Your Will, we wander in doubt through countless lifetimes. Everything happens by Your Will.
​

I think that the "By Your Will" part implies that it was by Waheguru's Will that none would come to Him without understanding/putting forth the effort to (try to) learn (understand) who Waheguru is. By that I mean that the world offers many distractions, but when someone is spiritually mature enough to seek its source then they can find their way to Him. I find the quote by Kabeer ji to fall along these lines.
)

:bow:


you are so true Wayfarer ji
effort is must , but in right direction

ਮਨਹਠਿ ਕਿਨੈ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ਕਰਿ ਉਪਾਵ ਥਕੇ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਇ ॥
Through mind's obstinacy none has obtained the Lord. All have grown weary of making efforts.

ਸਹਸ ਸਿਆਣਪ ਕਰਿ ਰਹੇ ਮਨਿ ਕੋਰੈ ਰੰਗੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥
By adopting thousands of cleverness the mortals have failed. The unimpressionable mind embraces not Lord's love.

 

[GURSIKH]

Hi Wayfarer my friend
You take a fresh angle to my own understanding. May I take a moment to share my understanding too My understanding is that Waheguru is already a sure existance in Kabeer Ji and SGGS Ji. Waheguru is without doubt and exists without doubt, or rather when there is no doubt in your or my mind then Waheguru is known in the same sense that we know we exist i.e. without doubt.


Perhaps Gursikh Ji can share some other lines or thoughts too

hi Onkaara ji :foryou: thanks for sharing your understanding ! Full of Wisdom !!

ਵਡਾ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਊਚਾ ਥਾਉ ॥
Great is the Master, High is His Heavenly Home.

ਊਚੇ ਉਪਰਿ ਊਚਾ ਨਾਉ ॥
Highest of the High, above all is His Name.

ਏਵਡੁ ਊਚਾ ਹੋਵੈ ਕੋਇ ॥
Only one as Great and as High as God

ਤਿਸੁ ਊਚੇ ਕਉ ਜਾਣੈ ਸੋਇ ॥
can know His Lofty and Exalted State.

ਜੇਵਡੁ ਆਪਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਆਪਿ ਆਪਿ ॥
Only He Himself is that Great. He Himself knows Himself.

Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh