Sikhi, other religions & Bhagats

[Satnaam]

In the book called “Ravidas Pragas” on page 435 the following is written –

ਡੂੰਮ ਜਾਤੀ ਦਾ ਮਰਦਾਨਾ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਜੀ ਨਾਲ ਸੀ, ਜਦੋਂ ਇਹ ਬਨਾਰਸ (ਕਾਸ਼&#2624 ਵਿੱਚ ਗਏ ਸੀ I ਕਾਸ਼ੀ ਦੇ ਬ੍ਰਹਿਮਣਾਂ, ਖਤ੍ਰੀਆਂ ਨੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਜੀ ਨੂੰ ਕਿਹਾ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਨੀਚ ਜਾਤੀ ਵਾਲੇ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਚਮਾਰ ਪਾਸ ਗਏ ਹੋ ਅਸੀ ਤਾਂ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਚਮਾਰ ਜਾਤੀ ਵਾਲੇ ਢੇਢਾਂ ਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਛਾਵਾਂ ਨਹੀਂ ਲੈਂਦੇ

 

[Satnaam]

Invest in a book called Bhagat Bani Ithaas of Gyani Gurdit Singh, don't wait for it to be uploaded on internet, humble request this is. I made a small mistake, the Guru Ka Bagh is not Ayodhya but

* Bhagat Naamdev rejected Hinduism as is clearly evident from his Gurbani quoted from Ang 875. He wasn't Muslim either.
* Bhagat Ji met Guru Nanak Sahib, evidence Gurdwara Guru Ka Baagh.
* The above is also detailed in Mehervaan Janamsakhi, anyone possesing this Janamsakhi knows.
* The Guru Ka Bagh reference is also written by Dr. Lekh Raj Parwana at Page 116-117 in his book "Shri Guru Ravidas- Life and Writing".
* Ravidas Pragas mentions Guru Nanak Sahib meeting Bhagat Ravidas.

 

[Breathe]

Word Kahuh is an order. Just like Japoh (meditate as instruction). Kahuh means declare those Paths wrong. Show me one tuk in Gurbani which has word 'Mat' after a verb and it means 'not'?
Example of word 'Mat' being religion:

Never said it did.

1. Wrong translations are widespread because of wrongful translations being available widely and other translations are not there in English. Bhai Randhir Singhs translation seem more correct. Every scholar agrees that Gurbani is written according to a set of grammar rules, Viakarn, how can you ignore that?
Both Manmohan Singh and Sant Singh are wrong, and many of their translations are in fact, many of them are confusing and contrasting to accepted translations.

Then, where is your translation? Not an attack, I genuinely mean it. Please feel free to bring a better translation.

3. Deen nowhere refers to Islam in Gurbani, deen refers to Dharam, truth. Show me one place in Gurbani where it says Islam is deen?

Nowhere did I say this, either.

4. You can read Gurmukhi, then I'd suggest you to read Teekas and not rely on translations only. On SriGranth (the website you rely on) click on Prof Sahib Singh teeka and see what he has to say about Namaz, wheter its the Islamic Namaaz or redefined with virtues.

I can't read Punjabi, so teekas are pointless.
I also go to other sites for reference, too.

5. Slandering a religion? Is saying 'Hitler was bad' slandering Nazism or Hitler? There is a difference between gossiping, backbiting and stating the truth. Historically Muhammad massacred tribes, kept concubines and I can't respect him as a prophet nor his religion.

Islam ≠ Nazism
Muhammad ≠ Hitler
Qur'an ≠ Mein Kampf
Speaking harshly against the religion of nearly 2 billion people ≠ speaking kindly
Actions from Hadith ≠ (necessarily) the truth
And so on.

What you're doing = slandering

7. It is to show that both Allah and Paarbrahm are the same God,

Exactly.

Paarbrahm who doesn't like the Malechas (non-Muslims).

Never heard this from any Hindus, so I think you are mistaken.

I've decided not to answer most because it would be a debate. You have your views, and you are welcome to them.

But isn't it strange how people disagree with you, and how this 'misconception' of universalism is so, well, rampant, even amidst native Punjabi speakers who have grown up in a Punjabi speaking land, or how I've never encountered this in the Guru's Home?

 

[Satnaam]

Just because you have never encountered this doesn't mean it isn't practised, brother. I am giving straight quotes from Gurbani showing basics of Islam are rejected.

A very important point to note is that alot of Sikhs do not read their scriptures but rely on books or translations, and with translations mentioning things that are not even in the original confusions are bound to rise. The general knowledge of Sikhs is pretty bad (I'm not exception or highly knowledgable, but having a large Sikh family with some being community figures - with many interactions with youngsters or even elder Sikhs - I realised that the Sikhi knowledge amongst Sikhs is very limited 'all religions lead to God' etc theres the few lines that they all seem to know but nothing in depth like what the scriptures are or say, ...). I used to be one of them too, its not that I have grown up brainwashed or something, this thing took up a long time to understand and process. I also grew up with the beliefs Bhagats were non Sikhs and all paths lead to god until I read more about Islam and realised that this path can't lead to god. Then I started to look for the answers in Sikhi and slowly everything started to make sense, especially after realising that the Bhagats were not Hindus or Muslims.

Answer me one question honestly, why do you tend to ignore the dozens of Verses criticising the futile Islamic practises and take out a few that 'REDEFINE' Islam? The same way that Gurbani uses the word 'Jati' (celibacy in Hinduism) but changes its meaning. How could Gurbani reject Hajj, circumcision, Ramadan etc and still tell you to be a good muslim?

Once upon a time Nazism had a lot of support too, didn't make it right then nor now. A cult remains a cult, wether it has 50 followers or 1.5 billion. Muhammad = Hitler if not worse.

The Hindus considered the Muslims to be impure malechas, if you read Gurbani you would know how the Hindus viewed the Muslims (impure).

To be honest brother, there are too many topics being discussed here. Lets take one at a time? Bhagats, Islam or those Shabads? Don't mind because Gursikh starts on Bhagats you start on Islam, I can talk about all those issues but we could learn more if focussed on one thing at a time.

Lets start with Hindus view of Muslims (atleast the view the Gurus saw in society and criticised):

1. Malech is a word that means impure and was used by Hindus to describe the foreign invaders or those practising that religion. The word is used in many Gurbani tuks to show some Hindus of their hypocrisy (they used to hate Muslims but work for them, take their eating habits etc), for example.

ਸਲੋਕ ਮਃ ੧ ॥
ਗਊ ਬਿਰਾਹਮਣ ਕਉ ਕਰੁ ਲਾਵਹੁ ਗੋਬਰਿ ਤਰਣੁ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥ ਧੋਤੀ ਟਿਕਾ ਤੈ ਜਪਮਾਲੀ ਧਾਨੁ ਮਲੇਛਾਂ ਖਾਈ ॥ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਪੂਜਾ ਪੜਹਿ ਕਤੇਬਾ ਸੰਜਮੁ ਤੁਰਕਾ ਭਾਈ ॥ ਛੋਡੀਲੇ ਪਾਖੰਡਾ ॥ ਨਾਮਿ ਲਇਐ ਜਾਹਿ ਤਰੰਦਾ ॥੧॥
You (Khatri official) are taxing the cow and Brahman (whom you worship); you are mistaken if you think that cow-dung coating of your kitchen floor would absolve you of your sins. You put-on a ritual mark on your forehead, wear a dhoti (loin-cloth worn around the waist) and carry a rosary, but you eat the food of Muslims [you are dependent on the Muslim ruler (malesh) to make a living]. You perform Hindu worship secretly but you behave like Muslims outside and read Quran with them. Give up this hypocrisy! Salvation lies in practicing Truth.
AGGS, M 1, p. 471.

ਨੀਲ ਵਸਤ੍ਰ ਪਹਿਰਿ ਹੋਵਹਿ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ॥ ਮਲੇਛ ਧਾਨੁ ਲੇ ਪੂਜਹਿ ਪੁਰਾਣੁ ॥ ਅਭਾਖਿਆ ਕਾ ਕੁਠਾ ਬਕਰਾ ਖਾਣਾ ॥ ਚਉਕੇ ਉਪਰਿ ਕਿਸੈ ਨ ਜਾਣਾ ॥
They wear blue clothes to meet the approval of Muslim rulers. They worship puranas (name of a section of Hindu scriptures) but their livelihood depends on Muslim rulers whom they consider malesh (polluted). They eat he-goat meat slaughtered in a Muslim fashion (halal) with the chanting of Quranic verses but they do not allow others to step into their kitchen.

The word malech in the gurbani is in bold. Did you know of this word or the meaning thereof?