• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Sikhism: Did Nanak proclaim to be Guru?

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
So why should I leave a faith that is the pure distillation of Adwaita and "accept Baha'u'llah" who I regard as nothing more than a faker and a fraud?

One does not ask you to do anything.

Your comment reflects on what was said in the past. If what Baha'u'llah said can so easily be discounted and it was said in the past, has not that comment just refuted what was said in the past?

I just wish you all the best, much happiness and strength of Faith.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
That is an incredibly arrogant, ignorant and immodest statement not to speak of openly proselytizing

I disagree, I see it is a valid query. No one has to respond to the query, let it go if you see it is not applicable.

As to how you responded, I would ask if that is applicable to one's own Faiths teachings?

I will most likely only post in DIR from now on, after maybe one more post, I will consider that option in days to come. You know I will wish you naught but the very best in everything all the while invoking in my heart, Ya Baha'ul Abha, forgive me, for it is thy Love given that compels me, even if I am very unwise to do so.

Regards Tony
 

ManSinha

Well-Known Member
I disagree, I see it is a valid query. No one has to respond to the query, let it go if you see it is not applicable.

As to how you responded, I would ask if that is applicable to one's own Faiths teachings?


You never answered my questions - after I asked what is so good and new about the Baha'i faith - I asked for one "new" thing / idea and you cannot respond - so my criticism stands
So how I responded has nothing to do with my "faith" - this is a debate board - if you cannot stand the heat get out of kitchen as they say - unlike you I am not perfect to follow the teachings at all times - I am only human and stray and this is one of those times
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
I disagree, I see it is a valid query. No one has to respond to the query, let it go if you see it is not applicable.

As to how you responded, I would ask if that is applicable to one's own Faiths teachings?

I will most likely only post in DIR from now on, after maybe one more post, I will consider that option in days to come. You know I will wish you naught but the very best in everything all the while invoking in my heart, Ya Baha'ul Abha, forgive me, for it is thy Love given that compels me, even if I am very unwise to do so.

Regards Tony
"I will most likely only post in DIR from now on, after maybe one more post,"

Well, one is an old friend. Please don't go into seclusion in the DIR forums. Just get started reading Nanak's hymns/words in Granth, if you may like to, and forget everything else. It is a good read and beneficial also, no compulsion however. Right, please?

Regards
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
You never answered my questions - after I asked what is so good and new about the Baha'i faith - I asked for one "new" thing / idea and you cannot respond - so my criticism stands
So how I responded has nothing to do with my "faith" - this is a debate board - if you cannot stand the heat get out of kitchen as they say - unlike you I am not perfect to follow the teachings at all times - I am only human and stray and this is one of those times

Yes we all tend to be human, it is a blessing and a curse all in one package.

I will not be around on RF for a little while.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
"I will most likely only post in DIR from now on, after maybe one more post,"

Well, one is an old friend. Please don't go into seclusion in the DIR forums. Just get started reading Nanak's hymns/words in Granth, if you may like to, and forget everything else. It is a good read and beneficial also, no compulsion however. Right, please?

Regards

Stay well and happy paarsurrey, I wish you well and happy in Faith and life.

Regards Tony
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Anybody who doesn't make such egotistical claims is fine in my book. The true Guru would never make those claims, but let his teachings or works stand by themselves.
The question is what Nanak's Guru the One-God liked about His humble servants. Right, please?
It is His discretion that matters, not one's liking or disliking.Right, please?
Nanak had to do what Nanak's Guru the One-God told him to do, please. Right, please?
Nanak, I understand, had totally submitted to G-d. Right, please?

Regards
____________
[2:113] بَلٰی ٭ مَنۡ اَسۡلَمَ وَجۡہَہٗ لِلّٰہِ وَ ہُوَ مُحۡسِنٌ فَلَہٗۤ اَجۡرُہٗ عِنۡدَ رَبِّہٖ ۪ وَ لَا خَوۡفٌ عَلَیۡہِمۡ وَ لَا ہُمۡ یَحۡزَنُوۡنَ ﴿۱۱۳﴾٪
Nay, whoever submits himself completely to Allah, and is the doer of good, shall have his reward with his Lord. No fear shall come upon such, neither shall they grieve.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 2: Al-Baqarah
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
I told that jack*** I would NOT be answering his ridiculous questions - as many have noticed - all he seeks to do is undermine other faiths without examining his own - I am not willing to engage with that

I have challenged him before and as @danieldemol says - he ignores answers and speaks in a circular language

Let me tell you once and for all - the SGGS is collection of poems and hymns from different individuals regarded as holy and and as worshippers of the lord in whatever form - there is reference to Allah (Shaikh Fareed) and Narayan (Naamdev) and both (Kabir) as well as those of the 5 individuals out of the 9 that followed Nanak - it is not predictive of future events nor a history book by any stretch of imagination

I call Sikhism a philosophy based on Adwaita Vedanta and the vast majority of the SGGS is a confirmation of that if one takes it in context

Like @Vinayaka said you will not find "claims" about anything unlike Mirza Ahmad - and @paarsurrey - you are wrong about the fact that he did not have disciples in his time - look up Bhai Bala (a hindu) and Bhai Mardana (a Muslim) - do your bl**** research before posting unfounded statements

The Guru's were humble to the point where the 10th Guru Gobind Singh had this to say:

Jo Hum Ko Parmeshwar Uchar Hai
Tay Sabh Narak Kund Mah Par Hai
Mo Ko Daas Tavan Kaa Jaano
Yaa Mai Bhed Na Runch Pachhaano
Mai Ho Param Purkh Ko Daasa
Dekhan Aayo Jagat Tamaasa
(Bachittar Natak)

Those who address me as God
Shall fall into the pit of hell.
Treat me as a servant of the Lord
And entertain no doubt about it.
I am only a slave of the Lord. I have
only come to witness the Lord's play (Lila).

I am done with you - you are going on my "ignore" list



That is an incredibly arrogant, ignorant and immodest statement not to speak of openly proselytizing

You do not ask someone that has everything they want to go looking for something else is why

Because Guru Nanak came first and said whatever there was to say - the question IMO should be reversed "Why should anyone follow Baha'u'llah - when all he said was already said - answer that first - what is "new and revolutionary" about what Baha'u'llah said that the dharmic faiths do not already have. Give me one point - just one - if you can - else I shall accept the fact that you are misguided and indoctrinated and a not-so-sly proselytizer at that or at best a hypocrite.

The Sikhs had 10 Guru's to refine and hone the philosophy to a sharp needle that cuts through Maya if followed correctly. What did the charlatan that you follow do? Proclaim himself to be the return of x y and z - yes in India we call them frauds and charlatans

The Sikh philosophy is pretty simple - 3 tenets anyone can follow

1. Kirit Karo (work hard and honestly)
2. Wand Shako (share what you have with other fellow creatures)
3. Naam Japo (remember the lord)

So why should I leave a faith that is the pure distillation of Adwaita and "accept Baha'u'llah" who I regard as nothing more than a faker and a fraud?
"I call Sikhism a philosophy based on Adwaita Vedanta and the vast majority of the SGGS is a confirmation of that if one takes it in context"

Does one mean "Advaita Vedanta ", please? Our friend @Aupmanyav belongs to that plus he belongs to Atheism also, i understand.
But Nanak had nothing to do with it, he did not adhere to it. I don't get anything like that in Nanak's hymns in the Granth, please. If I missed something, then please quote from Nanaks hymns in the Granth,please. Right, please?

Regards
 

danieldemol

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Right now I am at Page 1034 of 1430 of Granth and I quote from Nanak:

"I* drink in the Ambrosial Nectar, given by the True Guru. I do not know any other second or third. He is the One, Unique, Infinite and Endless Lord; He evaluates all beings and places some in His treasury. || 12 ||
*Nanak
PAGE 1034 - Gurmukhi to English Translation and Phonetic Transliteration of Siri Guru Granth Sahib.
I understand that Nanak's true Guru or First Guru was One G-d, as I understand. Nanak did not claim to be Guru or First Guru, as I understand.
And Nanak denies or doesn't know of any second or third.
Is it correct to express that Nanak denies guru-ship of Angad and Amar Das , here, as I understand?
PAGE 1034 - Gurmukhi to English Translation and Phonetic Transliteration of Siri Guru Granth Sahib.
Right, please?

Regards
I think it is only saying that Nanak only had God as his teacher (without intermediaries). But let us assume that the way you are reading it is correct for hypothetical purposes. Inasmuch as;
1. A guru is a spiritual leader
2. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and his 5 Kaliphs are all spiritual leaders (ie gurus)
3. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad came after Nanak
4. In our hypothetical reading Nanak denies all gurus after him.

Therfore it logically follows that;
5. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and his 5 kaliphs are false gurus (or false spiritual leaders) according to Nanak.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
There is no compulsion in religion, yes indeed.

What can I say paarsurrey, I see the greatest song to date has now been sung, and that all the songs of the past were dedicated in praise to and of this song!

We are now part of the Chorus.

Regards Tony
Well, the Sikhism people say that the "greatest song" that has been sung is that of Granth and one doesn't believe in that. Right, please?

Regards
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
Well, the Sikhism people say that the "greatest song" that has been sung is that of Granth and one doesn't believe in that. Right, please?

Regards

I am happy for them to choose their path, as I am also happy you choose your path paarsurrey. You are free to see how the 'Song is Sung of God' as you wish to.

Regards Tony
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
I think it is only saying that Nanak only had God as his teacher (without intermediaries). But let us assume that the way you are reading it is correct for hypothetical purposes. Inasmuch as;
1. A guru is a spiritual leader
2. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and his 5 Kaliphs are all spiritual leaders (ie gurus)
3. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad came after Nanak
4. In our hypothetical reading Nanak denies all gurus after him.

Therfore it logically follows that;
5. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and his 5 kaliphs are false gurus (or false spiritual leaders) according to Nanak.
"I think it is only saying that Nanak only had God as his teacher (without intermediaries)."

That is one aspect of it, not the only. Right, please?

Regards
 
Top