Sin=natural

[waitasec]

Evolution is a selfish process. It is survival of the fittest. The golden rule says, "lend to the weak so that it may survive. How do you account for this?

yes it is!! any anyone knows we need each other in order to survive.

the golden rule does not say lend to the weak, where did you get that from?

it is atypical to not have empathy.

animals feel empathy...the only difference is we can use logic to influence the outcome.

 

[PolyHedral]

So you believe in objective moral absolutes?

For a very rigorous and unusual version of "morals", yes.

 

[Danmac]

yes it is!! any anyone knows we need each other in order to survive.

Evolution is not concerned with what is fair. It lends to the strong and weeds out the weak.

the golden rule does not say lend to the weak, where did you get that from?

The golden rule goes against the model of evolution. Evolution is survival of the fit enough, and the golden rule says, "Do unto the weak as you would have the weak do unto you. This is contradictory of evolution. Therefore the golden rule could not have sprung from evolution. Where did it come from?

it is atypical to not have empathy.

animals feel empathy...the only difference is we can use logic to influence the outcome.

Animals have empathy for that which furthers their own selfish agenda. I don't see any animal judicial systems in place. Evolution has no moral compass. It destroys the weak without remorse. Where in the world do you get that empathy is part of the evolutionary process?

 

[waitasec]

Evolution is not concerned with what is fair. It lends to the strong and weeds out the weak.

did i say evolution was concerned with what is fair? no i didn't.
i said empathy is a part of our DNA because we need each other to survive. it's purely selfish.
look at it this way, the weak wouldn't utilize empathy thusly they are alone to fend for themselves.

The golden rule goes against the model of evolution. Evolution is survival of the fit enough, and the golden rule says, "Do unto the weak as you would have the weak do unto you. This is contradictory of evolution.

you are making things up to fit your argument. where did you get this idea of 'do unto the weak..." show me and i'll shut up... besides, what could the weak do unto you? be jealous of your luck?
it's do unto others...

Therefore the golden rule could not have sprung from evolution. Where did it come from?
Animals have empathy for that which furthers their own selfish agenda.

for survival and for reasons that would support my reasoning, there is power in numbers. they know they need each other in order to survive, just as the human species.

Experiments with rhesus monkeys would prove that the evolution of empathy is a very long one. These little monkeys were given the option of doubling their food source while simultaneously shocking their fellow monkeys, or eating half as much and letting their friends live an electricity-free existence. Using a system of chains, batteries, and automatic food dispensers, the experimenters found that two-thirds of the monkeys preferred the empathetic less-food option. In a few cases, these monkeys were even starving themselves to avoid hurting their little buddies. They were also less likely to shock another monkey if they had experienced a shock themselves, and were less likely to shock any monkey they knew, although they might not be so kind if one of the scientists were thrown into the cage.

Conservative Left Brain, Liberal Right Brain

I don't see any animal judicial systems in place. Evolution has no moral compass. It destroys the weak without remorse. Where in the world do you get that empathy is part of the evolutionary process?

in the bronze age, what was the moral compass when concerning;
slavery, genocide, human trafficking and the rape of un-pledged girls?

the standard of morality is not a constant, it evolves as well. why?
because we are primates.

 

[Danmac]

did i say evolution was concerned with what is fair? no i didn't.

If science is correct everything is the result of evolution. The golden rule is contrary to the evolutionary rule.

i said empathy is a part of our DNA because we need each other to survive. it's purely selfish.

Selfishness does not concern itself with the preservation of the multitudes. It concerns itself with it's own survival. Even at the expense of the multitudes. You are not concerned with the survival of others or you would empty your cabinets and feed a starving family. Your argument is weak.

look at it this way, the weak wouldn't utilize empathy thusly they are alone to fend for themselves.

Wealth breeds greed, not poverty. That is a bunch of bunk. I know poor people that are more generous than some millionaires I know.

you are making things up to fit your argument.

1) Is evolution a selfish process?
2) How could concern for the welfare of others be part of the evolutionary process, when evolution weeds out the weak?

where did you get this idea of 'do unto the weak..." show me and i'll shut up... besides, what could the weak do unto you? be jealous of your luck?
it's do unto others...

The golden rule is no respecter of persons. It demands the same concern for the weak as it does for the strong. True love is blind. Evolution is not blind. It is a respecter of the strong, and it abhors the weak.

for survival and for reasons that would support my reasoning, there is power in numbers. they know they need each other in order to survive, just as the human species.

That must be why Hitler killed 6 million Jews. He knew there was power in numbers. Or maybe he forgot your ideology.

Experiments with rhesus monkeys would prove that the evolution of empathy is a very long one. These little monkeys were given the option of doubling their food source while simultaneously shocking their fellow monkeys, or eating half as much and letting their friends live an electricity-free existence. Using a system of chains, batteries, and automatic food dispensers, the experimenters found that two-thirds of the monkeys preferred the empathetic less-food option. In a few cases, these monkeys were even starving themselves to avoid hurting their little buddies. They were also less likely to shock another monkey if they had experienced a shock themselves, and were less likely to shock any monkey they knew, although they might not be so kind if one of the scientists were thrown into the cage.

And crocodiles mate with other crocodiles. Selfish lusts often disguise themselves as selfless acts of love.

in the bronze age, what was the moral compass when concerning;
slavery, genocide, human trafficking and the rape of un-pledged girls?

Evolution at work.

the standard of morality is not a constant, it evolves as well. why?
because we are primates.

Evidently you think some morals don't evolve, like slavery, genocide, human trafficking and the rape of un-pledged girls.

 

[Danmac]

For a very rigorous and unusual version of "morals", yes.

Who is the author of such morals?

 

[Tristesse]

Who is the author of such morals?

We are.

 

[Danmac]

We are.

We are talking about absolutes. So your absolute morals do not change with time and culture?

 

[Tristesse]

We are talking about absolutes. So your absolute morals do not change with time and culture?

Morality changes over time, yes.

 

[Danmac]

Morality changes over time, yes.

So child molesting and raping women should be permitted in some cultures right?

 

[Tristesse]

So child molesting and raping women should be permitted in some cultures right?

No, it shouldn't. I don't think it should. Do you?

 

[Danmac]

No, it shouldn't. I don't think it should. Do you?

So should these things become moral absolutes for all cultures and all times? I think so.

 

[Tristesse]

So should these things become moral absolutes for all cultures and all times? I think so.

Each person and society decides what is moral. A culture may deem child rape moral, I think that they would be immoral, but they think that they're moral. I don't know that absolutes would apply.

 

[Danmac]

Each person and society decides what is moral. A culture may deem child rape moral, I think that they would be immoral, but they think that they're moral. I don't know that absolutes would apply.

They may deem them moral, but I think there is something in each of us that would condemn such things. That thing is conscience.

 

[waitasec]

If science is correct everything is the result of evolution. The golden rule is contrary to the evolutionary rule.

which version yours (the weak) or the real one (others)?

Selfishness does not concern itself with the preservation of the multitudes. It concerns itself with it's own survival. Even at the expense of the multitudes. You are not concerned with the survival of others or you would empty your cabinets and feed a starving family. Your argument is weak.

i have one word for you;
capitalism

Wealth breeds greed, not poverty. That is a bunch of bunk. I know poor people that are more generous than some millionaires I know.

capitalism

1) Is evolution a selfish process?

it's not selfish, it's indifferent.

2) How could concern for the welfare of others be part of the evolutionary process, when evolution weeds out the weak?

who would clean our toilets and mow our lawns and who would work the fields?

The golden rule is no respecter of persons. It demands the same concern for the weak as it does for the strong. True love is blind. Evolution is not blind. It is a respecter of the strong, and it abhors the weak.

you have yet to provide your source for this really weak argument..
how do you get "do unto others" to "do unto the weak"?

That must be why Hitler killed 6 million Jews. He knew there was power in numbers. Or maybe he forgot your ideology.

he knew the power of fear and besides hitler is a terrible example. he was a psychopath according to our standards of morality...

And crocodiles mate with other crocodiles. Selfish lusts often disguise themselves as selfless acts of love.

what does this have anything to do with anything

Evolution at work.

yesiree

Evidently you think some morals don't evolve, like slavery, genocide, human trafficking and the rape of un-pledged girls.

how do you arrive to that conclusion?

 

[Beta]

If anything - these forums show the absolute disagreement between people with each thinking they are right .
When oh when will ignorant man realize that they can never reach unity and therefore never have peace among themselves ???
Jesus is called the Prince of Peace yet nobody listens to what he says or how it can be achieved Lk.6v46. Seems this verse - so meaningful - means nothing to people !

 

[waitasec]

If anything - these forums show the absolute disagreement between people with each thinking they are right .
When oh when will ignorant man realize that they can never reach unity and therefore never have peace among themselves ???
Jesus is called the Prince of Peace yet nobody listens to what he says or how it can be achieved Lk.6v46. Seems this verse - so meaningful - means nothing to people !

the god of the bible is the god of division...
can you see why i would think that?

 

[PolyHedral]

Who is the author of such morals?

Nash? Morals are merely applied game theory, which is derived from mathematics.

 

[Danmac]

Nash? Morals are merely applied game theory, which is derived from mathematics.

Interesting

Is the Universe Actually Made of Math? | Math | DISCOVER Magazine

 

[waitasec]

and to think math wasn't discovered it's a tool invented by people to explore the natural world