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Sister Beck's Talk

DeepShadow

DeepShadow

White Crow
I didn't hear Sister Beck's talk (duh) but I'm concerned about all the uproar. Having read it on the internet, I fail to see the parts where Sister Beck says...

* That men are not supposed to nurture

* That women aren't supposed to be educated

* That women are supposed to be subordinate (this would contradict other doctrinal statements, if she said it)

* That the 2000 stripling warriors were told by their mothers to "go kill other mothers' children" (have you actually read the story?!?)

Barring the circular logic in the "mothers who know bear children" part, I don't see much to disagree with in this talk.

That being said, if someone didn't feel the Spirit witnessing to them during this talk, that's not to say they are apostate. We are encouraged to seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit and to test everything. Disagreeing with Sister Beck is not the same as refusing to sustain church leaders.

However, the creation of the "What Women Know" website and its like seems spiritually dangerous. These people say that this was the only way to move to action on this issue, and that comes dangerously close to the politicizing of church doctrine, exactly what got Sonya Johnson kicked out of the church.
 
emmaleebee

emmaleebee

Member
nutshell said:
They do not abandon their plan by succumbing to social pressure and worldly models of parenting. These wise mothers who know are selective about their own activities and involvement to conserve their limited strength in order to maximize their influence where it matters most."
What does this statement mean? It's too vague to have any substantial meaning - hence, it's poor writing on Beck's part. Is it meant to induce a "warm fuzzy" ? something I've never felt, by the way.
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I disagree with nutshell here about this being poor writing on Beck's part. IMO she was vague on purpose because each woman's situation and circumstances are different -- the point is to remind us to make sure we have our priorities straight (which is a personal and individualized thing)--that our time and energy are being put to the best use because there is so much out there that the world emphasizes, but in an eternal perspective, may not be important.

I liked Sis. Beck's talk because i felt the spirit while she was speaking and i feel the spirit as i reread it. There are things in it that strengthen and encourage and lift me to strive to be better and continue on the course. I do not feel like i have to be perfect, i do not feel like i need to feel guilty. I can see how some could see it that way, but I don't think she intended it that way and it doesn't have to be that way.

I don't think we have to agree with every word that is spoken in conference, but I wonder if discussing it publicly on an open forum is the best way to address our concerns.
 
Bishka

Bishka

Veteran Member
emmaleebee said:
but I wonder if discussing it publicly on an open forum is the best way to address our concerns.
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How else are we supposed to discuss what concerns and bother us? In my experience, keeping it bottled up and to ourselves leads to bigger problems then just discussing it.
 
KingM

KingM

Member
madhatter85 said:
I'm going to cry now :sad4:, Not.... Ever worked? it doesn't phase men, we don't whine we just get better. or we loose our Job. That plain and simple.
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Wow, I'm a man and far from the target of your screed, but even I start to bristle when I read this kind of garbage.

Oh, and some of us don't want to be married to a "queen" or a "princess." We don't want royalty and we don't to put our wives on a pedestal. We want a partner and an equal.
 
nutshell

nutshell

Well-Known Member
madhatter85 said:
I'm going to cry now :sad4:, Not.... Ever worked? it doesn't phase men, we don't whine we just get better. or we loose our Job. That plain and simple.
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The most successful companies are those who hire employees with the personality and behavioral traits appropriate to the position they are being hired for. Also, employees with those traits are happiest when in such a position rather than being forced to be something they're not. it's a win-win.

In contrast, a company suffers when it has the wrong employees. Since you introduced the employment analogy I'll take it a step further. If a person does not have the requirements of a successful parent, then they shouldn't be a parent because it's the children who suffer just as a company suffers when it has the wrong people.
 
Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I just thought I'd post a quote from Chieko Okasaki's book, "Lighten Up!" For those who are not familiar with her, Sister Okasaki was the first non-Caucasian to serve on any General Board of the Church when she was called in 1961 to the YWMIA Board. She was then called to the Primary General Board, and then served as the First Courselor in the Relief Society General Presidency. She held this position starting in 1990. Here's what she says in the chapter called, "Opening the Door to Christ":

"On one occasion I attended a meeting where someone was telling us about the importance of teaching women to strengthen the family. I had a little trouble with that presentation in three ways. First, that approach seems to assume that women are weakening the family. Of the hundreds of women I know, I don't know anybody who isn't doing the best she can to make her family strong. Second, I want to know if men are getting the same message. Men as a group certainly have far more control than women over many of the social and economic factors that make strong families possible. And third, I want a few reports from the real world about the specifics of family life. I don't think generalities are very helpful. Until those three conditions are met, the major product of sermons about strengthening the family is likely to be guilt, and I'm against guilt."

Several of us have been very outspoken about Sister Beck's talk. Several others have defended her. Sister Okasaki held a position of authority equal to Sister Beck, so her opinions on this subject would have to be considered just as valid and authoritative as Sister Beck's. While she has not been outspoken about the talk, judging from everything I've read of hers in the past, she would not have been any more impressed by it than those of us who have been outspokenly critical.
 
Sola'lor

Sola'lor

LDSUJC
nutshell said:
If a person does not have the requirements of a successful parent, then they shouldn't be a parent because it's the children who suffer just as a company suffers when it has the wrong people.
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I haven't read all the pages in this topic but Id jut like to comment on the statements similar to this. I think that it's important to recognise that the point of the gospel is to improve ourselves. We aren't supposed to be who we are now and hope that is good enough. We need to be constantly improving ourselves and making ourselves better. So my response is this: It is both men and womens responsibilities to have families. If a person doesn't have what it takes to be a parent then they should improve themselves until they do. They shouldn't say, "Hmmm, well I'm just not cut out to be a parent." It is our resposibilities as children of God to raise families(not that it is the top priority). If we aren't to the point where we can do that then we should improve ourselves until we are.
 
nutshell

nutshell

Well-Known Member
Sola'lor said:
If a person doesn't have what it takes to be a parent then they should improve themselves until they do. If we aren't to the point where we can do that then we should improve ourselves until we are.
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And some people never reach that point. Deal with it. It's true.
 
Sola'lor

Sola'lor

LDSUJC
nutshell said:
Of course. But for those who can, should they have children before they reach that point of improvement or should they wait?
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Well personally I don't think anyone is really prepared to have a family. Nobody is really ready for what it will take. But of course I don't have a family yet. Give me a year or so and I'll get back to you. Even though I may not be ready, I will be doing my best. I think that's all it takes. Just do your best. If your best isn't good enough then get a better best.

So to answer your question someone should have children whenever they feel they should. Of course there are so many factors to consider it depends on the individuals situation. I'm just saying people should do thier best when it comes to familial responsibilities. But the commandment tomultiply and replenish the Earth was never repealled last I heard.
 
nutshell

nutshell

Well-Known Member
Sola'lor said:
Well personally I don't think anyone is really prepared to have a family. Nobody is really ready for what it will take. But of course I don't have a family yet. Give me a year or so and I'll get back to you. Even though I may not be ready, I will be doing my best. I think that's all it takes. Just do your best. If your best isn't good enough then get a better best.

So to answer your question someone should have children whenever they feel they should. Of course there are so many factors to consider it depends on the individuals situation. I'm just saying people should do thier best when it comes to familial responsibilities. But the commandment tomultiply and replenish the Earth was never repealled last I heard.
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I think we agree for the most part. No one is ever ready. I guess a better word is "capable." Some people are not capable of being parents (and I'm talking more than physically).
 
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