Slavery and capitol punishment

[Unveiled Artist]

Enslaving someone involves making them work involuntarily.

That work can generate profit for whoever controls the slave.

This means that whoever is in power would have a financial incentive to put people on death row.

Hmm. Maybe I should have been more detailed with slavery. In the States slavery has a negative connotation. How one was treated based on their origin and color of skin warranted them harsh punishment (hitting, shackling, and killing) of the slaves. So, it has more to do with how people are treated as slaves more so than the purpose of slavery and the incentive behind it.

 

[viole]

The question is does one's crime justify how we treat the convicted (as one would a slave) despite the legal consequence they have already for their crimes.

My point is: if they anyway eventually murder the convict, why should they be concerned about the rest? it would be like being a gentleman to a girl before raping her.

ciao

- viole

 

[Hellbound Serpiente]

@Unveiled Artist

Again, it all depends on many factors. It depends on how inherently evil the said prisoner is, how overall cruel and harmful his/her crimes were, the circumstances surrounding the prison, the prisoners actions, desires, thinking, habits etc.

An accurate enough value of all of this factors would be the criteria how the criminal is and treatment

 

[Hellbound Serpiente]

My point is: if they anyway eventually murder the convict, why should they be concerned about the rest? it would be like being a gentleman to a girl before raping her.

ciao

- viole

Except I don't think they are concerned with the convict [or the girl], they are only concerned with the benefit they can derive from utilizing the convict as an asset before finally getting rid of the convict [or the girl]. Even the killers of Junko Furuta took maximum advantage of her before finally killing the poor soul.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@Unveiled Artist

Again, it all depends on many factors. It depends on how inherently evil the said prisoner is, how overall cruel and harmful his/her crimes were, the circumstances surrounding the prison, the prisoners actions, desires, thinking, habits etc.

An accurate enough value of all of this factors would be the criteria how the criminal is and treatment

That would mean someone who did an terrible unthinkable crime (if the factors meet up) deserve to get, say, beaten for that alone (say by the public)?

Example. Take the law out. If a child rapist (since many think that's the most horrible crime) was on death row, should an officer-by his own morals not the law-have justification to beat the prisoner because of his crime alone?

I know there are other factors, but say that X factors line up to make the question appropriate.

 

[metis]

Something I thought of (for some weird reason).

If a prisoner is waiting for death row, should she be treated as a slave because of her crime or like a human being despite her crime?

Does one's crime justify treating someone as a slave on earth despite the final consequence of their crime?

With me, the question is moot since I don't believe in the death penalty.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

With me, the question is moot since I don't believe in the death penalty.

I don't either but hypotheticals are great to talk about depending on the topic.

 

[viole]

Except I don't think they are unconcerned with the convict [or the girl], they are only concerned with the benefit they can derive from utilizing the convict as an asset before finally getting rid of the convict [or the girl]. Even the killers of Junko Furuta took maximum advantage of her before finally killing the poor soul.

Well, I come from a land that considers capital punishment a primitive and barbaric habit. So, I am not good in putting different degrees to barbarism.

ciao

- viole

 

[Hellbound Serpiente]

That would mean someone who did an terrible unthinkable crime (if the factors meet up) deserve to get, say, beaten for that alone (say by the public)?

Example. Take the law out. If a child rapist (since many think that's the most horrible crime) was on death row, should an officer-by his own morals not the law-have justification to beat the prisoner because of his crime alone?

I know there are other factors, but say that X factors line up to make the question appropriate.

Well, I'll use Junko Furuta case and her killers as hypothetical examples, for they are extremely messed-up individual [even though I've come across worse than those people and cases far worse than Junko Furuta case].

Let's say we have a criminal who are equally and more inherently evil than Junko Furuta killers, and they have done things as evil as the evil that was done to Junko Furuta. Now, let's assume there's an immeasurably, scientific advanced, nigh-omniscient entity [someone like Dark Phoenix Jean Grey like entity] who can make near-perfect pin-point accurate judgments regarding all matters which needs judgment, and this entity is also a judge and a police-woman. Now, if the criminal in question receive mistreatment from such an entity, I won't give two hoots, whether or not if they did something that is deserving of that mistreatment while being in prison.

Again, if the said criminal is extremely twisted and did unthinkable crimes out of his/her inherently cruel nature, I don't know if they are deserving of mistreatment but won't give a **** if they are mistreated. Maybe someone more qualified than me can judge that, but I don't think her judgment will make a damn bit of a difference to me.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

My point is: if they anyway eventually murder the convict, why should they be concerned about the rest? it would be like being a gentleman to a girl before raping her.

ciao

- viole

I don't understand. What do you mean by concerned about the rest?

 

[Hellbound Serpiente]

Well, I come from a land that considers capital punishment a primitive and barbaric habit. So, I am not good in putting different degrees to barbarism.

ciao

- viole

That doesn't mean primitive, barbaric people/entities don't exist and degrees to barbarism [or, more accurately, agony] doesn't exist. Most primitive, barbaric people/entities aren't from your land and/or most [if not all] don't share the same values as you do.

I consider combat to be primitive, barbaric too, but unfortunately where I am from, primitive and barbaric entities are rife along with raw barbarism and degrees to which anything agonizing, barbaric can be inflicted on others. And unfortunately, I had to fight back against pedophiles, terrorists, murderers, bullies and such primitive, barbaric individuals throughout my childhood. And the degree of barbarism and agony experienced exists pretty much like what happened to me [just severe physical and psychological battering] wasn't as severe in degree as compared to my friend who was horribly raped when he was a child.

The counter barbaric treatment my enemies received from me in self-defense during my childhood was immeasurably mild as compared to things they have done [and most likely continued doing] and how demented, primitive, barbaric they were. If such people receive a dose of their own medicine, regardless of how much the dose is in terms of quantity and how strong the medicine is in terms of quality, I won't give two hoots. I am not qualified enough to judge if they deserve it either, but if someone qualified enough do so, it won't make a damn bit of a difference to me.

 

[viole]

I don't understand. What do you mean by concerned about the rest?

Well, executing people is highly immoral, anyway, so being concerned about their well being before murdering them, does not seem so useful.

ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

That doesn't mean primitive, barbaric people/entities don't exist and degrees to barbarism [or, more accurately, agony] doesn't exist. Most primitive, barbaric people/entities aren't from your land and/or most [if not all] don't share the same values as you do.

I consider combat to be primitive, barbaric too, but unfortunately where I am from, primitive and barbaric entities are rife along with raw barbarism and degrees to which anything agonizing, barbaric can be inflicted on others. And unfortunately, I had to fight back against pedophiles, terrorists, murderers, bullies and such primitive, barbaric individuals throughout my childhood. And the degree of barbarism and agony experienced exists pretty much like what happened to me [just severe physical and psychological battering] wasn't as severe in degree as compared to my friend who was horribly raped when he was a child.

The counter barbaric treatment my enemies received from me in self-defense during my childhood was immeasurably mild as compared to things they have done [and most likely continued doing] and how demented, primitive, barbaric they were. If such people receive a dose of their own medicine, regardless of how much the dose is in terms of quantity and how strong the medicine is in terms of quality, I won't give two hoots. I am not qualified enough to judge if they deserve it either, but if someone qualified enough do so, it won't make a damn bit of a difference to me.

I come from a place where we try to correct malfunctioning people. Not kill them. Revenge might be appropriate to primitive societies, but surely not for north Europe today.

ciao

- viole

 

[Hellbound Serpiente]

I come from a place where we try to correct malfunctioning people. Not kill them. Revenge might be appropriate to primitive societies, but surely not for north Europe

ciao

- viole

Some "people" are walking, talking, breathing "malfunctions" of nature in form of human beings. Tell me, how can you correct someone like Carl Panzram or Albert Fish [or many, MANY more inherently twisted individuals that I had the misfortune to come across]? Such aren't malfunctioning people, they are savages MADE of malfunctions.

Tell me something, if hypothetically such individuals [who are of inherently cruel, incurable nature] somehow got to north Europe and decided to wreak havoc on European society and European people, how will you and your society deal with them?

Don't get me wrong, I am against unnecessary killings and fruitless, trivial revenge for the sake of revenge. But how would your society manage them and the destruction they'll breed?

 

[Hellbound Serpiente]

Oh and I am not saying Carl Panzram and/or Albert Fish were incurable. I was just giving guessed examples of people who just won't change.

 

[viole]

Some "people" are walking, talking, breathing "malfunctions" of nature in form of human beings. Tell me, how can you correct someone like Carl Panzram or Albert Fish [or many, MANY more inherently twisted individuals that I had the misfortune to come across]? Such aren't malfunctioning people, they are savages MADE of malfunctions.

Tell me something, if hypothetically such individuals [who are of inherently cruel, incurable nature] somehow got to north Europe and decided to wreak havoc on European society and European people, how will you and your society deal with them?

Don't get me wrong, I am against unnecessary killings and fruitless, trivial revenge for the sake of revenge. But how would your society manage them and the destruction they'll breed?

We had a guy a few years ago who ran havoc and killed a multitude of innocents. It was in Norway. Yet, in Norway even life sentences are considered immoral. therefore, he will eventually get out of jail.

So? We simply like to try to correct, instead of following emotional revenge feelings. even if correction does not always work. We are not Iran.

ciao

- viole

 

[Koldo]

We had a guy a few years ago who ran havoc and killed a multitude of innocents. It was in Norway. Yet, in Norway even life sentences are considered immoral. therefore, he will eventually get out of jail.

So? We simply like to try to correct, instead of following emotional revenge feelings. even if correction does not always work. We are not Iran.

ciao

- viole

So the innocents are supposed to take the chance and pray it worked? I call that barbaric.

 

[Koldo]

Something I thought of (for some weird reason).

If a prisoner is waiting for death row, should she be treated as a slave because of her crime or like a human being despite her crime?

Does one's crime justify treating someone as a slave on earth despite the final consequence of their crime?

The way prisoners are treated has to be regulated by law. Relying on the whims of the prison wards is a sure way to generate injustice.

 

[Hellbound Serpiente]

We are not Iran.

Firstly, I want to congratulating you people for not being like Iran or Punkistan or Afghanistan or Someother-istan. I hate these places and the sheer barbarity in them. Anyway ...

Regardless, it doesn't matter who you are. What matters is who the evils ones are, what are they like, what they do, the overall damage they do and such things.

So? We simply like to try to correct, instead of following emotional revenge feelings. even if correction does not always work.

1. Mistreatment of criminals and/or their execution doesn't necessarily comes from emotions. Some might do it as for the greater good of justice and/or as a deterrent for others for following the same trend. Capital punishments and/or other punishments could very well be for other purposes.

2. Just because they are [arguably] "following emotional revenge feelings", doesn't mean they are wrong. Their feelings could very well be justified and true, and the way they vent out their anger could also be justified and true.

3. Just because you guys like to correct people, doesn't necessarily mean that what you do is overall more constructive and beneficial in the long run as compared to what others do. You may be not like Iran, but that necessarily doesn't mean you guys are better.

We had a guy a few years ago who ran havoc and killed a multitude of innocents. It was in Norway. Yet, in Norway even life sentences are considered immoral. therefore, he will eventually get out of jail.

Okay, let's use this guy you are talking about in this case. Let's go by the criteria I invented in haste:

"It all depends on factors like --- The prisoner in question and/or her nature, the severity of her crimes, variables that played role in making that crime happen, and other important factors."

"It depends on how inherently evil the said prisoner is, how overall cruel and harmful his/her crimes were, the circumstances surrounding the prison, the prisoners actions, desires, thinking, habits etc.

An accurate enough value of all of this factors would be the criteria how the criminal is and treatment"

Now, let's do some approximations. Is this guy a hardened, habitual and inherently sadistic individual who habitually run havoc and kill innocent individuals? How severe was the damage done by this individual? What was his emotional states like? Was he under influence? Is he likely to commit such a crime again? Was he bullied and/or facing some agonizing situations, problem, crises etc.? What about the family members of the individuals he has harmed, did they lashed out at someone due to their anger at what happened to them and their loved ones? [AND MANY OTHERS FACTORS]

If the value we received from accurate enough calculations of these factors among other factors --- Capital punishment and/or slavery is overall is more constructive, beneficial to the society in general and also the individuals, and (arguably) taking the criminal out of the death row [and freeing him/her from execution], and into voluntary devotion to a cause that'll serve a greater good is also relatively less agonizing to the criminal.

 

[Hellbound Serpiente]

Forgive my grammar, typos and other mistakes. I wrote that in haste as I am working atm.