It's not vague, both Quran and Sunnah are vividly clear, which is why I believe dark forces and dark magic don't want people to know truth about family of Mohammad in Quran.
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Slavery, hadiths, Quran and how to study Islam.
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It's not vague, both Quran and Sunnah are vividly clear, which is why I believe dark forces and dark magic don't want people to know truth about family of Mohammad in Quran.
ecco
Veteran Member
Yeah. The beauty of being an atheist is that we don't believe in nonsense like dark forces and dark magic any more than we believe in bright gods and bright messengers.
Yet the clarity of the words and murky blindness to those clear words can only be explained by dark magic of dark forces that don’t want people to see family of Mohammad in Quran.
ecco
Veteran Member
Which words? Quote them. Then show why you feel they have clarity and why that can only be explained by "dark magic of dark forces". Try to be really specific.
By the name of God, the Compassionate to all, and Compassionate in a special way to believers.
1. Rules of language.
When reading a book, a fiction for example, you contextualize everything with everything in the book, but the chapter itself is important to contextualize with respect to the paragraphs in there, and the sentence within a paragraph, you contextualize within the paragraph.
2. The Sorcery prevents us from perceiving Quran by normal rules of language.
The Quran although beyond human, you still need to engage with it, with contextualization. However, when Quran talks about the first type of tahreef takes place, which is taking the words out of their place, this occurs not really purely out of malice on part of the doer, but it's due to combination with sorcery and propaganda and oppression to the speakers of truth. All three combined results in that disaster.
3. Verse 42:23:
That is which God gives good news of his servants such that believe and do deeds that set aright; say: I ask you no reward for it except the love of the kinsfolk and whoever earn a goodness we increase them therein in it's beauty, indeed God is Forgiving Grateful.
This verse is not said in isolation, but if it was, we can notice the following:
1. It's emphasizing to believe and do good deeds and the love of the kinsfolk directly related to this.
2. It's means of earning goodness and being increased in the beauty of goodness.
3. The ending suggests whoever does this, God will forgive him and appreciate their actions.
This is enough to show what is meant, but, what is more sad, is that we not only take the words out of context of the phrases that surround in it's own verse, we isolate with respect to the Surah (1) and the other thing we do, is we ignore the theme of reward and that Prophets (a) including Mohammad (s) didn't seek it, but rather, were accused of it, and this is a way to a paraphrase all those verses about the same topic, that Mohammad (s) doesn't seek a reward from people but what they perceive as a reward is really just asking them to recognize and love him and his family for who they are and if they do so, it's the means of being good and God will repay them and forgive their misdeeds.
1. Rules of language.
When reading a book, a fiction for example, you contextualize everything with everything in the book, but the chapter itself is important to contextualize with respect to the paragraphs in there, and the sentence within a paragraph, you contextualize within the paragraph.
2. The Sorcery prevents us from perceiving Quran by normal rules of language.
The Quran although beyond human, you still need to engage with it, with contextualization. However, when Quran talks about the first type of tahreef takes place, which is taking the words out of their place, this occurs not really purely out of malice on part of the doer, but it's due to combination with sorcery and propaganda and oppression to the speakers of truth. All three combined results in that disaster.
3. Verse 42:23:
That is which God gives good news of his servants such that believe and do deeds that set aright; say: I ask you no reward for it except the love of the kinsfolk and whoever earn a goodness we increase them therein in it's beauty, indeed God is Forgiving Grateful.
This verse is not said in isolation, but if it was, we can notice the following:
1. It's emphasizing to believe and do good deeds and the love of the kinsfolk directly related to this.
2. It's means of earning goodness and being increased in the beauty of goodness.
3. The ending suggests whoever does this, God will forgive him and appreciate their actions.
This is enough to show what is meant, but, what is more sad, is that we not only take the words out of context of the phrases that surround in it's own verse, we isolate with respect to the Surah (1) and the other thing we do, is we ignore the theme of reward and that Prophets (a) including Mohammad (s) didn't seek it, but rather, were accused of it, and this is a way to a paraphrase all those verses about the same topic, that Mohammad (s) doesn't seek a reward from people but what they perceive as a reward is really just asking them to recognize and love him and his family for who they are and if they do so, it's the means of being good and God will repay them and forgive their misdeeds.
4. Contextualizing in the Surah and seeing the reward theme:
Verse 42:23 is in the Chapter 42, and we seek refuge from de-contextualizing verses of God’s book. So then let us look at the chapter.
Through the name of God, the Compassionate (all-embracing type), the Compassionate (intensely specific affectionate type) Ha Meem. Ain Sin Qaf. Thus reveals your Lord to you and to those before you that God is the Mighty the Wise.
According to these holy verses, it seems the sacred letters are a code for something to do with God’s Name. Although there are hadiths interpreting them and can be proven in Quran, in here, we wish to look at the clear theme of the chapter and so will see God’s wisdom in this regard.
To Him belongs what is the heavens and the earth, and He is the Exalted, the Great. The heavens may rent asunder from above them and the Angels glorify through the praise of your Lord and seek forgiveness for those on earth, alas, God is the Forgiving, Compassionate (intensely specific affectionate type)
The chapter is about God’s relationship with his creatures. He emphasizes that his wish to forgive those on earth, is part of this relationship. He wishes to forgive them and bring them into his love.
And those who take Awliya other then him, God is a guardian over them, and you aren’t responsible over them. And thus we revealed an Arabic Recitation, that you may warn the mother of the towns, and those around it, and warn about the day of gathering, there is no doubt concerning it, a portion in the garden and a portion in the blaze. And if God wished, he would have made them into one nation, but rather, he enters who he wants in his mercy, and the oppressors/unjust, will have no Wali nor a helper.
I left Awliya and Wali untranslated because these words are contextually defined. That is the Surah will explain this unique relationship God has with his creation and humans while we aren’t supposed to give this relationship to others. Awliya is the plural of the Wali in this context.
Part of this relationship involves him sending Mohammad with a revelation to humanity, starting from the mother of the cities and those around it in his area.
Or is that they’ve taken Awliya other then Him? Then verily God is the Wali and he gives life to the dead and he has power over all things.
The tone so far is clearly about establishing and clarifying a Wilayah God has with his creatures and humans that are not meant to be given to others.
And whatever you dispute about with regards to anything then the judgment is for God, that is God my Lord, upon Him to do I rely and to Him do I turn. The originator of the heavens and the earth, he has made from yourselves mates and from the cattle mates, He warns you there is nothing like Him And he is the Hearing Seeing. To him belongs the keys of the heavens and the earth he amplifies in sustenance who he wishes and measures, indeed he has knowledge of all things.
This will be repeatedly reminded that God is the sustainer and God in this chapter links to this unique relationship he has, and with the need of guidance from Him. The judgment belongs to God and here its’ emphasizing it’s not Mohammad’s judgments but God’s that we need to implement, and so while God’s judgment is revealed through Mohammad, the intention is that God’s the judge.
He has explained for you the religion of what he enjoined Nuh, and that which we revealed to you, and what we enjoined upon Ibrahim, and Musa and Isa; In that uphold the religion and to not split regarding it, greatly hard is for those who associate what you call them to; God distinguishes for himself who he wishes and guides to him who turns.
The theme of this Surah is thus going to be what has been enjoined in all times which is submission to God, and hence Wilayah of God includes this. But how do we submit, and “what we revealed to you” meaning, revelation of Mohamad is also an instance of where this principle is revealed and following what is revealed to Mohammad is to follow God. It emphasizes not to differ with respect to the religion and so we can see, if we are sincere to God and don’t associate with Him, we will not differ with respect to the religion. Before it was said, God could’ve made us into one nation, but will enter who he wishes into his mercy.
And they didn’t split except after there came to them knowledge, out of rebellion between them, and were it not for a word preceding from God towards an appointed term, it would’ve been determined between them and those who inherited the book after them, are in a disquieting doubt concerning it.
The word preceding here is important, as we will see in 42:24. Again, we see God has a right to be adhered to and his religion united on, and that we do not split from the truth regarding it. We will see instructions on how not to split. As opposed to rebellion, we will be asked something else.
Thus go on inviting, and go straight as you are commanded, and do not follow their desires, and say I believe what has been revealed by God from a book, and I am commanded to do set justice between you, God is our Lord and your Lord, for us is our deeds and for you your deeds, there is no plea (as an excuse) between us and you God will bring us together and to Him is the goal.
Here it’s emphasizing God has commanded Mohammad to set justice in society and whatever has been revealed to him, is a book among many books that God has revealed in the past. And to everyone belongs their own responsibility and that God is the goal in all this.
So as for those who dispute regarding God after he has been responded to, there argument is nullified with their Lord and upon them is wrath and for them is a severe chastisement. It is God who revealed the book in Truth and the balance, and what may make you know the Hour maybe close?
This emphasizing again, that accepting or rejecting Mohamad is not about him, but about God. Since it’s God’s revelation and his words and him establishing a proof and it’s his Wilayah that is contended.
Those who do not believe in it would hasten it, while those who believe are afraid of it and know it’s the truth, indeed those who dispute regarding the hour are in a clear error. God is gracious to his servants, he sustains who he wishes, indeed God is Powerful, Mighty. Any who desires the tilth of the next world, we will increase him in his tilth, and whoever desires the tilth of this world, we give some of it and these will have no portion in the next world.
These are important verses in that, God can give two types of sustenance, one pertaining to this world and one pertaining to the next. His Wilayah is a guarantee for the next world, and it’s this regard disbelievers have no Wali, and it’s this sustenance that we should sacrifice worldly sustenance for.
You see the oppressors/unjust fearful by what they’ve earned and it’s to befall them, and those who believe and do good deeds are in the pleasures of the garden for them is what they wish from their Lord that is the great grace.
This contextualizes that God’s graciousness is that he wishes to give us everything we wish for but there are consequences for being an oppressor or unjust person. This was all making way, and so far, it’s arguing the Wilayah of God is the goal in all this. Keeping this theme in mind, it’s prepared the way to 42:23 nicely.
Verse 42:23 is in the Chapter 42, and we seek refuge from de-contextualizing verses of God’s book. So then let us look at the chapter.
Through the name of God, the Compassionate (all-embracing type), the Compassionate (intensely specific affectionate type) Ha Meem. Ain Sin Qaf. Thus reveals your Lord to you and to those before you that God is the Mighty the Wise.
According to these holy verses, it seems the sacred letters are a code for something to do with God’s Name. Although there are hadiths interpreting them and can be proven in Quran, in here, we wish to look at the clear theme of the chapter and so will see God’s wisdom in this regard.
To Him belongs what is the heavens and the earth, and He is the Exalted, the Great. The heavens may rent asunder from above them and the Angels glorify through the praise of your Lord and seek forgiveness for those on earth, alas, God is the Forgiving, Compassionate (intensely specific affectionate type)
The chapter is about God’s relationship with his creatures. He emphasizes that his wish to forgive those on earth, is part of this relationship. He wishes to forgive them and bring them into his love.
And those who take Awliya other then him, God is a guardian over them, and you aren’t responsible over them. And thus we revealed an Arabic Recitation, that you may warn the mother of the towns, and those around it, and warn about the day of gathering, there is no doubt concerning it, a portion in the garden and a portion in the blaze. And if God wished, he would have made them into one nation, but rather, he enters who he wants in his mercy, and the oppressors/unjust, will have no Wali nor a helper.
I left Awliya and Wali untranslated because these words are contextually defined. That is the Surah will explain this unique relationship God has with his creation and humans while we aren’t supposed to give this relationship to others. Awliya is the plural of the Wali in this context.
Part of this relationship involves him sending Mohammad with a revelation to humanity, starting from the mother of the cities and those around it in his area.
Or is that they’ve taken Awliya other then Him? Then verily God is the Wali and he gives life to the dead and he has power over all things.
The tone so far is clearly about establishing and clarifying a Wilayah God has with his creatures and humans that are not meant to be given to others.
And whatever you dispute about with regards to anything then the judgment is for God, that is God my Lord, upon Him to do I rely and to Him do I turn. The originator of the heavens and the earth, he has made from yourselves mates and from the cattle mates, He warns you there is nothing like Him And he is the Hearing Seeing. To him belongs the keys of the heavens and the earth he amplifies in sustenance who he wishes and measures, indeed he has knowledge of all things.
This will be repeatedly reminded that God is the sustainer and God in this chapter links to this unique relationship he has, and with the need of guidance from Him. The judgment belongs to God and here its’ emphasizing it’s not Mohammad’s judgments but God’s that we need to implement, and so while God’s judgment is revealed through Mohammad, the intention is that God’s the judge.
He has explained for you the religion of what he enjoined Nuh, and that which we revealed to you, and what we enjoined upon Ibrahim, and Musa and Isa; In that uphold the religion and to not split regarding it, greatly hard is for those who associate what you call them to; God distinguishes for himself who he wishes and guides to him who turns.
The theme of this Surah is thus going to be what has been enjoined in all times which is submission to God, and hence Wilayah of God includes this. But how do we submit, and “what we revealed to you” meaning, revelation of Mohamad is also an instance of where this principle is revealed and following what is revealed to Mohammad is to follow God. It emphasizes not to differ with respect to the religion and so we can see, if we are sincere to God and don’t associate with Him, we will not differ with respect to the religion. Before it was said, God could’ve made us into one nation, but will enter who he wishes into his mercy.
And they didn’t split except after there came to them knowledge, out of rebellion between them, and were it not for a word preceding from God towards an appointed term, it would’ve been determined between them and those who inherited the book after them, are in a disquieting doubt concerning it.
The word preceding here is important, as we will see in 42:24. Again, we see God has a right to be adhered to and his religion united on, and that we do not split from the truth regarding it. We will see instructions on how not to split. As opposed to rebellion, we will be asked something else.
Thus go on inviting, and go straight as you are commanded, and do not follow their desires, and say I believe what has been revealed by God from a book, and I am commanded to do set justice between you, God is our Lord and your Lord, for us is our deeds and for you your deeds, there is no plea (as an excuse) between us and you God will bring us together and to Him is the goal.
Here it’s emphasizing God has commanded Mohammad to set justice in society and whatever has been revealed to him, is a book among many books that God has revealed in the past. And to everyone belongs their own responsibility and that God is the goal in all this.
So as for those who dispute regarding God after he has been responded to, there argument is nullified with their Lord and upon them is wrath and for them is a severe chastisement. It is God who revealed the book in Truth and the balance, and what may make you know the Hour maybe close?
This emphasizing again, that accepting or rejecting Mohamad is not about him, but about God. Since it’s God’s revelation and his words and him establishing a proof and it’s his Wilayah that is contended.
Those who do not believe in it would hasten it, while those who believe are afraid of it and know it’s the truth, indeed those who dispute regarding the hour are in a clear error. God is gracious to his servants, he sustains who he wishes, indeed God is Powerful, Mighty. Any who desires the tilth of the next world, we will increase him in his tilth, and whoever desires the tilth of this world, we give some of it and these will have no portion in the next world.
These are important verses in that, God can give two types of sustenance, one pertaining to this world and one pertaining to the next. His Wilayah is a guarantee for the next world, and it’s this regard disbelievers have no Wali, and it’s this sustenance that we should sacrifice worldly sustenance for.
You see the oppressors/unjust fearful by what they’ve earned and it’s to befall them, and those who believe and do good deeds are in the pleasures of the garden for them is what they wish from their Lord that is the great grace.
This contextualizes that God’s graciousness is that he wishes to give us everything we wish for but there are consequences for being an oppressor or unjust person. This was all making way, and so far, it’s arguing the Wilayah of God is the goal in all this. Keeping this theme in mind, it’s prepared the way to 42:23 nicely.
That is the good news that God gives his servants that believe and do deeds that set aright. Say: No reward do I ask for it except the love in the kin and whoever earns a goodness, we increase them therein in its beauty, verily God is Forgiving, Appreciative.
This is the verse, and we saw so far it emphasizes on God’s Wilayah, “love in the kin” is obviously connected to what God will forgive us and appreciate our deeds on account of by the ending, and to what is a goodness that God wishes to increase us in it’s beauty.
Somethings to mention about the word love here, is that this type is not the type in English where we can have for abstract things for example “I love to play video games”. This word is the type of love people have for other humans they appreciate, honor and have affection for. It’s the type that includes affection. Just as it doesn’t make sense to have compassion for abstract or non-living things, it’s the same with this word.
Also, it’s the disbelievers who see Mohammad as seeking a reward for the message, but then states that which they accuse him as the reward he seeks to be only love of the kin.
What does this mean? To get accurate view, we should see what they saw as a reward on Mohammad’s part and what Quran replied to this in other parts.
The reward as a reminder to the worlds linked to the chosen ones of the past in Suratal Ana’am.
And this was Our argument which we gave to Ibrahim against his people; We raised in degrees who we wish surely your Lord is Wise, Knowing.
And We gave to him Isaq and Yaqoub; each did We guide, and Nuh did We guide before, and of his descendants, Dawood and Sulaiman and Ayub and Yusuf and Haroun; and this is the way We reward the good.
And Zakariya and Yahya and Isa and Ilyas; and all was of the righteous.
And Ismail and Al-Yasha and Yunus and Lut; and all We made to excel (in) the worlds:
And from among their fathers and their descendants and their brethren, and We chose them and guided them the straight path.
This is God's guidance, He guides thereby whom He pleases of His servants; and if they had set up others (with Him), certainly what they did would have become ineffectual for them.
These are they to whom We gave the book and the wisdom and the prophecy; then if these disbelieve in it: we have already entrusted with it a people who are not disbelievers in it.
These are they whom God guided, therefore follow their guidance. Say: I do not ask you for it any reward that it is only a reminder to the nations.
The context of the reward Mohammad is seen as seeking, is seen in these chosen ones. Where they all seeking reward? Where they all greedy for power and influence? Furthermore, God’s guidance is through these chosen ones and out of his wisdom put the guidance in the offspring of Abraham and Noah. It emphasizes from their fathers and descendants and brethren and they were all chosen and guided upon the straight path. So, where they all greedy regarding putting the leadership in their kin?
It’s thus that what Mohammad is seen as seeking reward from his authority and influence and linking chosen ones in the offspring of Fatima to himself, is really, a reminder to the worlds. It’s how God reminds humans and guides them through establishing such authority on earth.
The reward as a reminder in Suratal Yusuf
In this chapter, the story of Joseph/Yusuf occurs in which the theme of chosen family and the guidance in them is obvious. The brothers of Joseph except Benjamin were not chosen however they do repent. Joseph and being in the offspring of Isaac, has a complete manifest wisdom in this chapter. Consequently, the chosen ones' remembrance, fame, position, even if it reaches political authority as it did eventually with Joseph, is for the benefit of humans. Believers honoring these chosen ones, it's for their benefit, as we see the brothers of Joseph redeemed by honoring Joseph. It ends with reflections among them reminding of the fact:
[12:104] And whatever reward you seek from them regarding it: it is only a reminder to the worlds.
The reward is actually a call to the straight path in Suratal Mominoon
After reminding of how Messengers guided humans and the honor of believers gained through them and the chaos and oppression that occurs when their opponents are followed instead.
[23:72] Or do you ask them a recompense? For the recompense of your Lord is better and he is the best of those who provide sustenance.
[23:73] And verily you call them to a straight path.
Here it’s seen the sustenance of God is greater for Mohammad then what they can give him, and in fact, what they accuse him of as a reward is a straight path.
The reward as a path to God in Suratal Furqan.
This chapter it emphasizes on people complaining about the humanity of the Messenger Mohammed and their looking down upon him.
[25:7] And they say: What is the matter with this Messenger that he eats food and goes about in the markets; why has not an angel been sent down to him, so that he should have been a warner with him?
[25:8] Or (why is not) a treasure sent down to him, or he is made to have a garden from which he should eat? And the unjust say: You do not follow any but a man deprived of reason.
[25:9] See what likenesses do they apply to you, so they have gone astray, therefore they shall not be able to find a way.
[25:27] And the day when the unjust one shall bite his hands saying: O! would that I had taken a way with the Messenger
In this context of Mohammed and past Messengers being the way and path, it emphasizes:
[25:57] Say: what reward do I ask for it except who wants to, to take to their Lord a path?
Then the following verse emphasizes when they are obeying the Messengers, they are obeying God, but the disbelievers see submitting and prostrating to God as submitting to the commands of Mohammed as well as them acknowledging the Compassionate Lord of the universe and his traits and titles as submission to Mohammed:
[25:60] And when it is said to them: Prostrate to the Compassionate, they say: And what is the Compassionate? Shall we prostrate to what you bid us? And it adds to their aversion.
In then goes on to remind of who the servants of God that God chose for guidance are. It's obviously here suggesting, what people see as a reward on Mohammed part, what is that, really, but a path to God?
The reward sought by Prophets was regarding God in Suratal Shu'araa
Moses and Aaron were accused of wanting power and authority in the land by Pharaoh and his chiefs:
Who desires to turn you out of your land with his magic; what is it then that you advise?
And reminding of misguiding leaders leading people astray from God
And I do not ask you a reward for it in that the reward is only upon the Lord of the worlds.
[26:109, 127,145, 164,180] (5 verses)
The five verses are tied with obeying the Messengers and not obeying the misguiding oppressive leaders and the punishment that came about when these, type of Messengers, were disobeyed.
As we see, they were reminded and emphasized that the reward they get if obeyed and is seen as the reward they seek selfishly, if the Messengers, were correct, would be in fact, only upon the Lord of the worlds only, since that who they are being called to obey by obeying the Messengers and it’s upon God and only upon Him to establish such authority in the earth.
The reward as really for the benefit of people in Suratal Sheba
In a chapter that emphasizes on gratitude a lot, and the ill effects of ingratitude on a people, and the honor and gain in gratitude, it emphasizes:
[34:47] Say: Whatever reward I have asked of you for then it is for your sake; my reward is only upon God, and He is a witness of all things.
The reward as a reminder that we will known of it's tiding after a time in Suratal Saad
In a chapter where Dawood and Sulaiman power in the land is emphasized and the benefit of having such people as rulers is manifest, and God strengthening their authority, we also see a reminder of the exalted ones in the past and Iblis dark war against these chosen exalted souls. The ending of this chapter, we are reminded:
[38:86] Say: I do not ask you for any reward for it (and I am not those who affect) [38:87] In that it is only a reminder to the nations.
[38:88] And most certainly you will come to know it's tiding after a period.
Two more reminders of the reward with debt issues in Suratal Toor and Suratal Qalam
[Shakir 52:40] [Shakir 68:46] Or do you ask from them a reward, so that they are burdened with debt?
These verses show that if Mohammed (s) was to seek reward in through wealth, he and his family, would be owed so much that we cannot even begin to repay. But he wasn't asking wealth, and all the rest that we see as a reward, the other verses explain it, but these verses are emphasizing how big of a favor Mohammed and his family are to humanity by God by how overburdened we would've been if they asked us to pay them back by wealth!
Conclusion: We can see, that, the theme is Mohammad(s) doesn’t actual seek a reward, but that which they see him seeking as personal reward is in fact how people are to get to God. He is obeyed, but really, we obey him to obey God. Like wise, his family in 42:23, he is saying, all you see me seeking as a reward from power, influence, fame, moral landscaping, changing the ways of your forefathers, and all the things past Messengers were accused of, is in fact, just me asking you to recognize who we the kin of revelation are. We the family of the reminder are mean to be loved and held on to, and this is our position. We are asking you to appreciate God’s gift and religion in appreciating us who are the means to God.
This is the verse, and we saw so far it emphasizes on God’s Wilayah, “love in the kin” is obviously connected to what God will forgive us and appreciate our deeds on account of by the ending, and to what is a goodness that God wishes to increase us in it’s beauty.
Somethings to mention about the word love here, is that this type is not the type in English where we can have for abstract things for example “I love to play video games”. This word is the type of love people have for other humans they appreciate, honor and have affection for. It’s the type that includes affection. Just as it doesn’t make sense to have compassion for abstract or non-living things, it’s the same with this word.
Also, it’s the disbelievers who see Mohammad as seeking a reward for the message, but then states that which they accuse him as the reward he seeks to be only love of the kin.
What does this mean? To get accurate view, we should see what they saw as a reward on Mohammad’s part and what Quran replied to this in other parts.
The reward as a reminder to the worlds linked to the chosen ones of the past in Suratal Ana’am.
And this was Our argument which we gave to Ibrahim against his people; We raised in degrees who we wish surely your Lord is Wise, Knowing.
And We gave to him Isaq and Yaqoub; each did We guide, and Nuh did We guide before, and of his descendants, Dawood and Sulaiman and Ayub and Yusuf and Haroun; and this is the way We reward the good.
And Zakariya and Yahya and Isa and Ilyas; and all was of the righteous.
And Ismail and Al-Yasha and Yunus and Lut; and all We made to excel (in) the worlds:
And from among their fathers and their descendants and their brethren, and We chose them and guided them the straight path.
This is God's guidance, He guides thereby whom He pleases of His servants; and if they had set up others (with Him), certainly what they did would have become ineffectual for them.
These are they to whom We gave the book and the wisdom and the prophecy; then if these disbelieve in it: we have already entrusted with it a people who are not disbelievers in it.
These are they whom God guided, therefore follow their guidance. Say: I do not ask you for it any reward that it is only a reminder to the nations.
The context of the reward Mohammad is seen as seeking, is seen in these chosen ones. Where they all seeking reward? Where they all greedy for power and influence? Furthermore, God’s guidance is through these chosen ones and out of his wisdom put the guidance in the offspring of Abraham and Noah. It emphasizes from their fathers and descendants and brethren and they were all chosen and guided upon the straight path. So, where they all greedy regarding putting the leadership in their kin?
It’s thus that what Mohammad is seen as seeking reward from his authority and influence and linking chosen ones in the offspring of Fatima to himself, is really, a reminder to the worlds. It’s how God reminds humans and guides them through establishing such authority on earth.
The reward as a reminder in Suratal Yusuf
In this chapter, the story of Joseph/Yusuf occurs in which the theme of chosen family and the guidance in them is obvious. The brothers of Joseph except Benjamin were not chosen however they do repent. Joseph and being in the offspring of Isaac, has a complete manifest wisdom in this chapter. Consequently, the chosen ones' remembrance, fame, position, even if it reaches political authority as it did eventually with Joseph, is for the benefit of humans. Believers honoring these chosen ones, it's for their benefit, as we see the brothers of Joseph redeemed by honoring Joseph. It ends with reflections among them reminding of the fact:
[12:104] And whatever reward you seek from them regarding it: it is only a reminder to the worlds.
The reward is actually a call to the straight path in Suratal Mominoon
After reminding of how Messengers guided humans and the honor of believers gained through them and the chaos and oppression that occurs when their opponents are followed instead.
[23:72] Or do you ask them a recompense? For the recompense of your Lord is better and he is the best of those who provide sustenance.
[23:73] And verily you call them to a straight path.
Here it’s seen the sustenance of God is greater for Mohammad then what they can give him, and in fact, what they accuse him of as a reward is a straight path.
The reward as a path to God in Suratal Furqan.
This chapter it emphasizes on people complaining about the humanity of the Messenger Mohammed and their looking down upon him.
[25:7] And they say: What is the matter with this Messenger that he eats food and goes about in the markets; why has not an angel been sent down to him, so that he should have been a warner with him?
[25:8] Or (why is not) a treasure sent down to him, or he is made to have a garden from which he should eat? And the unjust say: You do not follow any but a man deprived of reason.
[25:9] See what likenesses do they apply to you, so they have gone astray, therefore they shall not be able to find a way.
[25:27] And the day when the unjust one shall bite his hands saying: O! would that I had taken a way with the Messenger
In this context of Mohammed and past Messengers being the way and path, it emphasizes:
[25:57] Say: what reward do I ask for it except who wants to, to take to their Lord a path?
Then the following verse emphasizes when they are obeying the Messengers, they are obeying God, but the disbelievers see submitting and prostrating to God as submitting to the commands of Mohammed as well as them acknowledging the Compassionate Lord of the universe and his traits and titles as submission to Mohammed:
[25:60] And when it is said to them: Prostrate to the Compassionate, they say: And what is the Compassionate? Shall we prostrate to what you bid us? And it adds to their aversion.
In then goes on to remind of who the servants of God that God chose for guidance are. It's obviously here suggesting, what people see as a reward on Mohammed part, what is that, really, but a path to God?
The reward sought by Prophets was regarding God in Suratal Shu'araa
Moses and Aaron were accused of wanting power and authority in the land by Pharaoh and his chiefs:
Who desires to turn you out of your land with his magic; what is it then that you advise?
And reminding of misguiding leaders leading people astray from God
And I do not ask you a reward for it in that the reward is only upon the Lord of the worlds.
[26:109, 127,145, 164,180] (5 verses)
The five verses are tied with obeying the Messengers and not obeying the misguiding oppressive leaders and the punishment that came about when these, type of Messengers, were disobeyed.
As we see, they were reminded and emphasized that the reward they get if obeyed and is seen as the reward they seek selfishly, if the Messengers, were correct, would be in fact, only upon the Lord of the worlds only, since that who they are being called to obey by obeying the Messengers and it’s upon God and only upon Him to establish such authority in the earth.
The reward as really for the benefit of people in Suratal Sheba
In a chapter that emphasizes on gratitude a lot, and the ill effects of ingratitude on a people, and the honor and gain in gratitude, it emphasizes:
[34:47] Say: Whatever reward I have asked of you for then it is for your sake; my reward is only upon God, and He is a witness of all things.
The reward as a reminder that we will known of it's tiding after a time in Suratal Saad
In a chapter where Dawood and Sulaiman power in the land is emphasized and the benefit of having such people as rulers is manifest, and God strengthening their authority, we also see a reminder of the exalted ones in the past and Iblis dark war against these chosen exalted souls. The ending of this chapter, we are reminded:
[38:86] Say: I do not ask you for any reward for it (and I am not those who affect) [38:87] In that it is only a reminder to the nations.
[38:88] And most certainly you will come to know it's tiding after a period.
Two more reminders of the reward with debt issues in Suratal Toor and Suratal Qalam
[Shakir 52:40] [Shakir 68:46] Or do you ask from them a reward, so that they are burdened with debt?
These verses show that if Mohammed (s) was to seek reward in through wealth, he and his family, would be owed so much that we cannot even begin to repay. But he wasn't asking wealth, and all the rest that we see as a reward, the other verses explain it, but these verses are emphasizing how big of a favor Mohammed and his family are to humanity by God by how overburdened we would've been if they asked us to pay them back by wealth!
Conclusion: We can see, that, the theme is Mohammad(s) doesn’t actual seek a reward, but that which they see him seeking as personal reward is in fact how people are to get to God. He is obeyed, but really, we obey him to obey God. Like wise, his family in 42:23, he is saying, all you see me seeking as a reward from power, influence, fame, moral landscaping, changing the ways of your forefathers, and all the things past Messengers were accused of, is in fact, just me asking you to recognize who we the kin of revelation are. We the family of the reminder are mean to be loved and held on to, and this is our position. We are asking you to appreciate God’s gift and religion in appreciating us who are the means to God.
Continuation of Surah 42
Or do they say he has forged a lie against God? So, if God wishes, he can seal our heart and make the falsehood disappear, and establish the truth through his words, verily he is aware of the secret of the hearts.
This goes in line with the reward he seeks is not really a reward, but from the viewpoint of the disbelievers, Prophets look greedy for power, and put’s Mohammad on the defensive, and here God is advocating on his behalf, even if Mohammad was a forger, God still can make the falsehood disappear and verify the truth with his words, and so they would have to seek a different Prophet then him is all. Not that God would leave humans to themselves! The Quran is words from God, but in this regard, so is Mohammad, and so his family. They are words preceding from God as alluded to earlier and they are the living breathing Quran where it’s light resides.
It’s saying Mohammad and his family were false, then where is the words of God by which he verifies the truth and makes falsehood disappear.
There would a kinsfolk to hold on to and love and get guided by no matter what. This is one way the Quran argues, that, there must be guidance from God and talks about the exact structure it must have. The structure of divinely chosen kinsfolk is something that occurred in all times.
And he it is that accepts repentance from his servants and pardons the evil deeds and knows what you do. And he answers those who believe and do good deeds, and gives them more out of his grace, and for the unbelievers, they will have a severe punishment.
Here we see it’s emphasizing back that this is God’s Wilayah, and so love of the family of Mohammad is asked but is so God’s Wilayah with them is established.
And if God should amplify the sustenance to his servants, they would have rebelled in the earth, but rather he brings down by measure what he pleases, indeed he is aware seeing regarding his servants. And he it is who sends down rains of his mercy, after they have despaired and unfolds his mercy, and he is the Wali Praiseworthy.
Again, we see God linking and reminding of his sustaining nature with the Wilayah he has.
And from his signs is that he created the heavens and the earth and put into them creatures and he can bring them together if he wishes. And whatever afflictions befalls you, it is on account of what your hands have done and he pardons regarding a lot. And you cannot escape him in the earth, and you have no Wali or helper besides God.
Again, we see that God is saying the religion and authority, and reward they see Mohammad seeking, is due to God’s relationship and Wilayah with his creation. We have no Wali besides God and the Wilayah has been described.
And from his signs are the ships that are like banners in the sea.
This refers to his Messengers, they come as groups and are Captains to the ship of salvation by which the name of God is its’ sailing and anchoring.
God is emphasizing he establishes these ships to guide humans, and Mohammad if he were a forger, God would establish a ship to guide through that as well and clarify the truth.
If he wishes, he may cause the wind to come to a standstill on it’s back, most surely in this is a sign for every patient grateful one. Or he may cause them to perish for what they have earned, and he pardons over much. And those who dispute the signs of God may know, there is for them no escape.
He is saying this ship of salvation is blessed by God’s Name and it’s sailing and anchoring is by God’s Name and if he pleases, he can make it come to a standstill, but through sending Mohammad, it’s meant not to. Another possibility is then mention, or he may cause destruction of the people, as he did with past nations. And he pardons over much. And we can’t escape God’s Wilayah, and hence, we should accept the ones God has chosen to guide us through.
Therefore, whatever you’ve been given of anything is for the pleasures of the life of this world, and what is with your Lord is better and more lasting for those who believe and rely on their Lord.
This emphasizing again that God’s Wilayah is an everlasting reward, no one can we invest with regards to the next world, but God.
Those who avoid the greater evils and indecencies and whenever they are angry, they forgive. And those who respond to their Lord and establishing the prayer, and their command is consultation between themselves and who spend what we wish out of sustenance.
Here its emphasizing that responding to Mohammad (s) and his family (a), is in fact, responding to God. Then it talks about the command structure of believers, is consultation between themselves and shows they won’t try to be tyrants over themselves but rather they council one another with the advice of Mohammad and his family, and try to learn from one another with respect to the religion.
And those who when rebellion afflicts them, defend themselves. And the recompense of an evil is an evil like it, so whoever pardons and sets aright, so his reward is with God, indeed God doesn’t like the oppressors. And whoever defends themselves after they are oppressed, there is no way against them. The way is against those who oppress humans, and who rebel in the earth without right, for them is a great punishment.
These verses show despite believers swallowing their anger, they defend themselves when rebelled against. Another form also is when they are oppressed. Both these situations, God has allowed believers to defend themselves. And then says God’s way is against those who oppress humans and who rebel in the earth without right. And this is part of God’s Wilayah, is that he is establishing the right of the oppressed and giving them leaders who will guide them against their oppressors.
And whoever is patient and forgives, so this is of the honorable affairs. And whoever God misguides, there is no Wali after Him, and when they see the punishment, will ask, is there a way of return?
This is telling them again; this Wilayah is for those get guided by God and whoever God misguides will have no Wali in this sense. So, it’s not about the family of Mohammad, really, but about God’s Wilayah.
And you shall see them brought before it, humbling themselves because of the abasements, looking with a faint glance. And those who believe shall say: Surely the losers are they who have lost themselves and their followers on the resurrection day. Now surely the oppressors shall remain in a chastisement that lasts. And there were no Awliya to help them from other then God and whoever God misguides, there is no way for them.
This shows the path of guidance, the path of Ahlulbayt laid out for people, is from God and God’s Wilayah is linked with that, and whoever God misguides, there is no alternative way. That is why the Prophet is told to say in 42:23, and God is the one saying it, to love them the kinsfolk who recognizing is linked to recognizing God’s Wilayah on his creatures. And this why it’s saying they have no Awliya other then God in this respect.
Respond to your Lord before there comes a day whence there is no one to repel it, you have no asylum this day, nor any room for denial. And so if they turn away then we have no sent you as a guardian over them, upon you is just the conveyance, and if we make the human taste of our mercy, he exults in it, and if an evil afflicts them, on account of what their own actions have earned, they are ungrateful.
This is asking us to respond to Mohammad(s) and his family(a) for the sake of God, and that responding to them is responding to God and our intention should be for God. Then it emphasizes those with gratitude and humble natures will benefit from this favor of God, while the arrogant and ungrateful will not, due to their insolence towards their Lord.
To God belongs the authority of the heavens and the earth he gives who he wishes females and gives who he wishes males. Or he gathers them males and females and makes who he wishes barren, indeed God is knowing capable.
This emphasizing God’s wisdom in giving Fatima (s) as a legacy to Mohammad (s), and Hassan (a) and Hussain (a) from her to Ali (a), and who he gave who to, has its’ wisdom. And Mohammad(s) not having male heirs, is of God’s wisdom. All this is to establish his authority on earth, just as it in heaven.
And it is not fitting for a human that God speaks them unless behind a veil or sending a Messenger and revealing by his permission what he wishes indeed he is exalted, wise.
This a huge revelation in that, it reminds, that God speaks through veils and so Mohammad (s) and his family, must trust veils. Either Angels, or themselves. And so, the highest veils they can trust themselves and those like them, trustworthy holy spirits, but the case with normal humans, is they can’t trust their own selves as veils. And how can we, when we don’t have the power to discern between God’s veils and Satanic veils and his minions?
And thus have We revealed You a Spirit of Our command. You knew not what the Scripture was, nor what the Faith but We have made it a light whereby We guide whom We will of Our Servants. And indeed, you guide them to a straight path.
God shows that the spirit of his command, in Mohammad and his family, are the light by which he guides humans, and his call to himself and his family, is in fact, calling them to guidance as they guide the straight path.
The path of God Whose is whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth; now surely to God do all affairs eventually come.
Then to summarize what has been emphasized, calls this path, the path of God. Its’ his path, established by him, and it’s his light that has been vested in Mohammad(s) and his family (a).
We can see clearly here, that, the family of Mohammad (s) were meant to be adhered to and followed.
Or do they say he has forged a lie against God? So, if God wishes, he can seal our heart and make the falsehood disappear, and establish the truth through his words, verily he is aware of the secret of the hearts.
This goes in line with the reward he seeks is not really a reward, but from the viewpoint of the disbelievers, Prophets look greedy for power, and put’s Mohammad on the defensive, and here God is advocating on his behalf, even if Mohammad was a forger, God still can make the falsehood disappear and verify the truth with his words, and so they would have to seek a different Prophet then him is all. Not that God would leave humans to themselves! The Quran is words from God, but in this regard, so is Mohammad, and so his family. They are words preceding from God as alluded to earlier and they are the living breathing Quran where it’s light resides.
It’s saying Mohammad and his family were false, then where is the words of God by which he verifies the truth and makes falsehood disappear.
There would a kinsfolk to hold on to and love and get guided by no matter what. This is one way the Quran argues, that, there must be guidance from God and talks about the exact structure it must have. The structure of divinely chosen kinsfolk is something that occurred in all times.
And he it is that accepts repentance from his servants and pardons the evil deeds and knows what you do. And he answers those who believe and do good deeds, and gives them more out of his grace, and for the unbelievers, they will have a severe punishment.
Here we see it’s emphasizing back that this is God’s Wilayah, and so love of the family of Mohammad is asked but is so God’s Wilayah with them is established.
And if God should amplify the sustenance to his servants, they would have rebelled in the earth, but rather he brings down by measure what he pleases, indeed he is aware seeing regarding his servants. And he it is who sends down rains of his mercy, after they have despaired and unfolds his mercy, and he is the Wali Praiseworthy.
Again, we see God linking and reminding of his sustaining nature with the Wilayah he has.
And from his signs is that he created the heavens and the earth and put into them creatures and he can bring them together if he wishes. And whatever afflictions befalls you, it is on account of what your hands have done and he pardons regarding a lot. And you cannot escape him in the earth, and you have no Wali or helper besides God.
Again, we see that God is saying the religion and authority, and reward they see Mohammad seeking, is due to God’s relationship and Wilayah with his creation. We have no Wali besides God and the Wilayah has been described.
And from his signs are the ships that are like banners in the sea.
This refers to his Messengers, they come as groups and are Captains to the ship of salvation by which the name of God is its’ sailing and anchoring.
God is emphasizing he establishes these ships to guide humans, and Mohammad if he were a forger, God would establish a ship to guide through that as well and clarify the truth.
If he wishes, he may cause the wind to come to a standstill on it’s back, most surely in this is a sign for every patient grateful one. Or he may cause them to perish for what they have earned, and he pardons over much. And those who dispute the signs of God may know, there is for them no escape.
He is saying this ship of salvation is blessed by God’s Name and it’s sailing and anchoring is by God’s Name and if he pleases, he can make it come to a standstill, but through sending Mohammad, it’s meant not to. Another possibility is then mention, or he may cause destruction of the people, as he did with past nations. And he pardons over much. And we can’t escape God’s Wilayah, and hence, we should accept the ones God has chosen to guide us through.
Therefore, whatever you’ve been given of anything is for the pleasures of the life of this world, and what is with your Lord is better and more lasting for those who believe and rely on their Lord.
This emphasizing again that God’s Wilayah is an everlasting reward, no one can we invest with regards to the next world, but God.
Those who avoid the greater evils and indecencies and whenever they are angry, they forgive. And those who respond to their Lord and establishing the prayer, and their command is consultation between themselves and who spend what we wish out of sustenance.
Here its emphasizing that responding to Mohammad (s) and his family (a), is in fact, responding to God. Then it talks about the command structure of believers, is consultation between themselves and shows they won’t try to be tyrants over themselves but rather they council one another with the advice of Mohammad and his family, and try to learn from one another with respect to the religion.
And those who when rebellion afflicts them, defend themselves. And the recompense of an evil is an evil like it, so whoever pardons and sets aright, so his reward is with God, indeed God doesn’t like the oppressors. And whoever defends themselves after they are oppressed, there is no way against them. The way is against those who oppress humans, and who rebel in the earth without right, for them is a great punishment.
These verses show despite believers swallowing their anger, they defend themselves when rebelled against. Another form also is when they are oppressed. Both these situations, God has allowed believers to defend themselves. And then says God’s way is against those who oppress humans and who rebel in the earth without right. And this is part of God’s Wilayah, is that he is establishing the right of the oppressed and giving them leaders who will guide them against their oppressors.
And whoever is patient and forgives, so this is of the honorable affairs. And whoever God misguides, there is no Wali after Him, and when they see the punishment, will ask, is there a way of return?
This is telling them again; this Wilayah is for those get guided by God and whoever God misguides will have no Wali in this sense. So, it’s not about the family of Mohammad, really, but about God’s Wilayah.
And you shall see them brought before it, humbling themselves because of the abasements, looking with a faint glance. And those who believe shall say: Surely the losers are they who have lost themselves and their followers on the resurrection day. Now surely the oppressors shall remain in a chastisement that lasts. And there were no Awliya to help them from other then God and whoever God misguides, there is no way for them.
This shows the path of guidance, the path of Ahlulbayt laid out for people, is from God and God’s Wilayah is linked with that, and whoever God misguides, there is no alternative way. That is why the Prophet is told to say in 42:23, and God is the one saying it, to love them the kinsfolk who recognizing is linked to recognizing God’s Wilayah on his creatures. And this why it’s saying they have no Awliya other then God in this respect.
Respond to your Lord before there comes a day whence there is no one to repel it, you have no asylum this day, nor any room for denial. And so if they turn away then we have no sent you as a guardian over them, upon you is just the conveyance, and if we make the human taste of our mercy, he exults in it, and if an evil afflicts them, on account of what their own actions have earned, they are ungrateful.
This is asking us to respond to Mohammad(s) and his family(a) for the sake of God, and that responding to them is responding to God and our intention should be for God. Then it emphasizes those with gratitude and humble natures will benefit from this favor of God, while the arrogant and ungrateful will not, due to their insolence towards their Lord.
To God belongs the authority of the heavens and the earth he gives who he wishes females and gives who he wishes males. Or he gathers them males and females and makes who he wishes barren, indeed God is knowing capable.
This emphasizing God’s wisdom in giving Fatima (s) as a legacy to Mohammad (s), and Hassan (a) and Hussain (a) from her to Ali (a), and who he gave who to, has its’ wisdom. And Mohammad(s) not having male heirs, is of God’s wisdom. All this is to establish his authority on earth, just as it in heaven.
And it is not fitting for a human that God speaks them unless behind a veil or sending a Messenger and revealing by his permission what he wishes indeed he is exalted, wise.
This a huge revelation in that, it reminds, that God speaks through veils and so Mohammad (s) and his family, must trust veils. Either Angels, or themselves. And so, the highest veils they can trust themselves and those like them, trustworthy holy spirits, but the case with normal humans, is they can’t trust their own selves as veils. And how can we, when we don’t have the power to discern between God’s veils and Satanic veils and his minions?
And thus have We revealed You a Spirit of Our command. You knew not what the Scripture was, nor what the Faith but We have made it a light whereby We guide whom We will of Our Servants. And indeed, you guide them to a straight path.
God shows that the spirit of his command, in Mohammad and his family, are the light by which he guides humans, and his call to himself and his family, is in fact, calling them to guidance as they guide the straight path.
The path of God Whose is whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth; now surely to God do all affairs eventually come.
Then to summarize what has been emphasized, calls this path, the path of God. Its’ his path, established by him, and it’s his light that has been vested in Mohammad(s) and his family (a).
We can see clearly here, that, the family of Mohammad (s) were meant to be adhered to and followed.
@Link it is easy even for a human to make it clear that they want you to follow the family of Muhammad. I can do it in one sentence.
"Follow the family of Muhammad".
That you claim that the Quran was written by one more powerful than a human being and claim it is written clearly to follow the family of Muhammad yet had to go into like 3 or 4 rambling walls of texts in your posts to attempt to explain it would suggest that contrary to your assertion, the Quran is written by one wholly impotent at making themselves clear comparatively to human standards.
In my opinion.
"Follow the family of Muhammad".
That you claim that the Quran was written by one more powerful than a human being and claim it is written clearly to follow the family of Muhammad yet had to go into like 3 or 4 rambling walls of texts in your posts to attempt to explain it would suggest that contrary to your assertion, the Quran is written by one wholly impotent at making themselves clear comparatively to human standards.
In my opinion.
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They would have played word games with that as well. But 42:23 is not less clear then that, because, the love is seen in terms of rewards they are accusing him of if he is a false Prophet which includes being followed and obeyed. This if people can defeat the sorcery regarding it. The reward verses also emphasize on each other, for example 25:57 is explicit in that the love towards family Mohammad (s) is to take a path to God.
The problem is terms like "family" "leader" "authority" have a false assumption to what they mean, and even "chosen" is twisted where Quran is clear there exists chosen ones after Mohammad (s).
And the word love is used there because it's arguing we obey Mohammad (s) and his family (a) to obey God and hence obedience is not even to Mohammad (s), but rather it's really to God while we honor and recognize them as the means, and so all God is really asking regarding them is to recognize and love them for who they are. This is just one verse 42:23 there are many other verses that are clear as well.
As for for 42:23 it means the reward disbelievers would accuse Mohammad (s) if he is false, is just recognize who he is and who his family is if it's true and appreciating them as means to God while the true submission is to God as it's nothing but taking a path towards God (25:57).
And the word includes affection and so can't be towards an abstract concept like closeness or kinship, it is defined to be towards sentient beings and includes a high amount of affection towards the object of love. You can only have affection to real beings, and so Qurba has been that clear in that verse all this time.
The word is not hub which can be applied to concepts or things or abstract relationships, it is muwadata which by definition includes affection in that love. It's been that clear.
And the word includes affection and so can't be towards an abstract concept like closeness or kinship, it is defined to be towards sentient beings and includes a high amount of affection towards the object of love. You can only have affection to real beings, and so Qurba has been that clear in that verse all this time.
The word is not hub which can be applied to concepts or things or abstract relationships, it is muwadata which by definition includes affection in that love. It's been that clear.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Why would they want to do that?
Same reason books and revelations were distorted in the past, to hide the truth and fight to extinguish God's light because of their envy towards God's chosen ones.
But it's the case, most mistranslate because of the sorcery upon their hearts and minds, and are not doing it purposely.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
So why is there no major effort going on to correct all those mistakes?
(ps: worst cop-out ever)
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