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Slavery in the Bible

Dan4reason

Facts not Faith
Many people believe that atheism and secularism are immoral and that only Christians can have a moral code. Whether or not it is true that secular people can have a moral code, the question still remains whether the Christian moral code is a good one. You can have a set of morals, but if these morals are wrong, they do you no good.

Supposedly the God of the bible is omnibenevolent and has a moral code. Many Christians ignore the fact that the law of Moses accepted slavery, and even though it did put a few restrictions on the practice, it still acepted it. How do Christians respond to this argument? If they believe in a litteral interpretation of the bible, then they will have to admit that slavery is sometimes right.

In the world today, how would anyone think of a person who had this opinion? What if a religion accepted slavery? What if a nation accepted slavery? Would you feel comfortable believing in a religion that accepts slavery? Is there any moral basis for slavery?
 

Tarheeler

Argumentative Curmudgeon
Premium Member
Many people believe that atheism and secularism are immoral and that only Christians can have a moral code. Whether or not it is true that secular people can have a moral code, the question still remains whether the Christian moral code is a good one. You can have a set of morals, but if these morals are wrong, they do you no good.

Supposedly the God of the bible is omnibenevolent and has a moral code. Many Christians ignore the fact that the law of Moses accepted slavery, and even though it did put a few restrictions on the practice, it still acepted it. How do Christians respond to this argument? If they believe in a litteral interpretation of the bible, then they will have to admit that slavery is sometimes right.

In the world today, how would anyone think of a person who had this opinion? What if a religion accepted slavery? What if a nation accepted slavery? Would you feel comfortable believing in a religion that accepts slavery? Is there any moral basis for slavery?

That's the problem with applying modern values to events that happened 3000 years ago. It never works out right.

For the people of the time, slavery was a fact of life. Every society participated; the Jews, the Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, etc. And all of those societies contributed greatly to modern society.

While I don't agree that atheists are without a moral code, I also don't accept the idea that a moral code as a whole is invalid because of the time period it was developed in. While the ancient laws allowed slavery, they also demanded fair treatment and compasion for slaves; ideas that were fairly radical for the time.

Should we also ignore the advances made in science, literature, philosophy, and logic just because the people who made those advances lived, and often supported, slavery and other actions that we today would consider terrible crimes?
 

Noaidi

slow walker
While the ancient laws allowed slavery, they also demanded fair treatment and compasion for slaves; ideas that were fairly radical for the time.

Exodus 21:20-21 'Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.' (TNIV).

So it's okay to beat your slave as long as they don't take longer than two days to recover from the injuries?

Fair treatment and compassion? How do you come to that conclusion?
 

Tarheeler

Argumentative Curmudgeon
Premium Member
Exodus 21:20-21 'Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.' (TNIV).

So it's okay to beat your slave as long as they don't take longer than two days to recover from the injuries?

Fair treatment and compassion? How do you come to that conclusion?

Because 3000 years ago, that was more compassionate that the rest. The idea that you should not kill your slaves was not common to the societies of the time.

Viewing ancient history through the modern eye is both illogical and inaccurate.
 

Rakhel

Well-Known Member
Because 3000 years ago, that was more compassionate that the rest. The idea that you should not kill your slaves was not common to the societies of the time.

Viewing ancient history through the modern eye is both illogical and inaccurate.

You have no idea how may times i have said this myself.
 

Tarheeler

Argumentative Curmudgeon
Premium Member
Fair point, Tarheeler.

But perhaps the same should apply to viewing ancient morality.

Perhaps, but I don't think so.

Society as whole dictates what is and what is not acceptable behavior. Ancient morality is still applicable in today's society, even if things have evolved.

While slavery and blood sacrifices are no longer considered moral, there are many ancient codes that are still required by modern society. Prohibitions against murder, theft, and incest are just as valid today as they were thousands of years ago.

One question that would be fun to explore, however, would be this: was ancient society influenced by the moral codes, or were the moral codes influenced by ancient society? Modern society might one day decide that those moral codes are no longer relevant, but I certainly hope not.
 

Noaidi

slow walker
Modern society might one day decide that those moral codes are no longer relevant, but I certainly hope not.

I agree that certain ancient moral codes should still be adhered to (regarding murder, theft etc), but it's interesting that modern society is indeed beginning to decide that some of the other ancient codes are no longer relevant, such as slavery and viewing homosexuality as sinful.
 

Dan4reason

Facts not Faith
That's the problem with applying modern values to events that happened 3000 years ago. It never works out right.

For the people of the time, slavery was a fact of life. Every society participated; the Jews, the Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, etc. And all of those societies contributed greatly to modern society.

While I don't agree that atheists are without a moral code, I also don't accept the idea that a moral code as a whole is invalid because of the time period it was developed in. While the ancient laws allowed slavery, they also demanded fair treatment and compasion for slaves; ideas that were fairly radical for the time.

Should we also ignore the advances made in science, literature, philosophy, and logic just because the people who made those advances lived, and often supported, slavery and other actions that we today would consider terrible crimes?

I have no basis for comparing the treatment of slaves in the Hebrew lands with those of other lands. If the Hebrews did indeed treat their slaves better than other societies of a time, then I commend them but they had a lot of advancing to do. For humans they did well, but this would not be good for a perfect God.

I think that slavery 3,000 years ago is just as wrong as slavery today. I think that genocide 3,000 years ago is just as wrong as today. I think that skilling prisoners alive 3,000 years ago is just as wrong as it is today. I think that rape 3,000 years ago is just as wrong as it is today. If slavery is wrong today, then it is always wrong. If there is no morality at all, then slavery is not necessarily wrong. If morality is relative to the society and this is the only basis for judging morality, then there is no reason to change our customs and morals as a society.
 
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Boethiah

Penguin
Because 3000 years ago, that was more compassionate that the rest. The idea that you should not kill your slaves was not common to the societies of the time.

Viewing ancient history through the modern eye is both illogical and inaccurate.

If slaves were viewed as property, then perhaps it was not compassion that drove slave holders to not kill their slaves. Perhaps it was the fact that slaves were a commodity and they didn't want to uselessly expend that commodity.

So, I'd say that the idea was fairly common from common sense. Of course, I'm not a history expert of this time period.
 

Tarheeler

Argumentative Curmudgeon
Premium Member
I have no basis for comparing the treatment of slaves in the Hebrew lands with those of other lands. If the Hebrews did indeed treat their slaves better than other societies of a time, then I commend them but they had a lot of advancing to do. For humans they did well, but this would not be good for a perfect God.

I think that slavery 3,000 years ago is just as wrong as slavery today. I think that genocide 3,000 years ago is just as wrong as today. I think that skilling prisoners alive 3,000 years ago is just as wrong as it is today. I think that rape 3,000 years ago is just as wrong as it is today. If slavery is wrong today, then it is always wrong. If there is no morality at all, then slavery is not necessarily wrong. If morality is relative to the society and this is the only basis for judging morality, then there is no reason to change our customs and morals as a society.

All ancient societies had a lot of advancing to do compared to modern society.

Morality is always subjective to the society it's being compared to. While most people today consider slavery, rape, and genocide to be wrong, it does not change the fact all of those things were common place and viewed as acceptable in the past. Customs and morals change because people are not stagnant.

If slaves were viewed as property, then perhaps it was not compassion that drove slave holders to not kill their slaves. Perhaps it was the fact that slaves were a commodity and they didn't want to uselessly expend that commodity.

So, I'd say that the idea was fairly common from common sense. Of course, I'm not a history expert of this time period.

If it were simple a matter of property value, it most likely would have been left to the decision of the property owners, as it was in the rest of the societies. We tend to codify those things which we hold to be moral and needed for the relative peaceful operation of civilization.
 

Thesavorofpan

Is not going to save you.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, Nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind Nor thieves nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the Kingdom of God.

Slavery is a Extortion of people. It is a sinned and shouldn't be allowed.
 

Dan4reason

Facts not Faith
All ancient societies had a lot of advancing to do compared to modern society.

Morality is always subjective to the society it's being compared to. While most people today consider slavery, rape, and genocide to be wrong, it does not change the fact all of those things were common place and viewed as acceptable in the past. Customs and morals change because people are not stagnant.

Morality is not strictly relative to society because there is often great disagreement over morals in individual societies. It would be most accurate to say that morality is relative to the individual. Many individuals back then probably viewed slavery as wrong, and I bet many of them were slaves themselves. Each individual holds a certain set of beliefs about how the world works and may change these beliefs over the courses of their lifes.

In my opinion, some beliefs are better than others. The shape of the earth may be a belief that is relative to each society but that does not mean there is no objective reality. It can be argued that there is really no morality and this world is all about helping ourselves. I know individuals who think like this and I find that they are less happy than those who are charitable and loving to other individuals. Society is also benefitted by morality and so should incourage it. Morality is very emotion-based, and its expression is very emotional. Even though this is what gives morality its savor, we should remember to have a rational basis for morality.

Morals change when individuals change their morals or when children hold different morals than their parents. if morality was simply what society thought was right, then there would be no need to change our morals and believe something different from the majority. People change their morals because they believe that some morals are better than other. My question to you is, is slavery wrong? Is it wrong today? Why? Was it wrong 3,000 years ago? Why?
 

arimoff

Active Member
Exodus 21:20-21 'Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.' (TNIV).

So it's okay to beat your slave as long as they don't take longer than two days to recover from the injuries?

Fair treatment and compassion? How do you come to that conclusion?

Well if you read a little bit further:

26. And if a man strikes the eye of his manservant or the eye of his maidservant and destroys it, he shall set him free in return for his eye,
27. and if he knocks out the tooth of his manservant or the tooth of his maidservant, he shall set him free in return for his tooth.

Mishpatim Torah Reading - Parshah with Rashi

Just an honest observation to see further then what you want to see can give you answers.
 

Tarheeler

Argumentative Curmudgeon
Premium Member
Morality is not strictly relative to society because there is often great disagreement over morals in individual societies. It would be most accurate to say that morality is relative to the individual. Many individuals back then probably viewed slavery as wrong, and I bet many of them were slaves themselves. Each individual holds a certain set of beliefs about how the world works and may change these beliefs over the courses of their lifes.

It is and it isn't. Society is a collection of individuals. And yes, there is often great disagreement between individuals concerning morals. But the society exhibits the morals of the majority.

As for many individuals viewing slavery as wrong, I doubt it. There were many sources of slaves (war, the indebted, those born into slavery, ect) and all societies participated. The idea that people are inherently free is a fairly new notion, and the people of ancient time more that likely viewed slavery as a fact of life. It was, in their eyes, how the world worked.

In my opinion, some beliefs are better than others. The shape of the earth may be a belief that is relative to each society but that does not mean there is no objective reality. It can be argued that there is really no morality and this world is all about helping ourselves. I know individuals who think like this and I find that they are less happy than those who are charitable and loving to other individuals. Society is also benefitted by morality and so should incourage it. Morality is very emotion-based, and its expression is very emotional. Even though this is what gives morality its savor, we should remember to have a rational basis for morality.

Morals change when individuals change their morals or when children hold different morals than their parents. if morality was simply what society thought was right, then there would be no need to change our morals and believe something different from the majority. People change their morals because they believe that some morals are better than other. My question to you is, is slavery wrong? Is it wrong today? Why? Was it wrong 3,000 years ago? Why?

As I said, we are not stagnant. As new ideas concerning the relationship of just about everything come about, we adjust our morals to fit them. As we started viewing people as inheritable free, individuals began to see slavery as immoral. When the majority of people in a society held this view, then society as a whole saw it as immoral. We don't change morals just because there are others out there; we change our morals when the ideas behind those morals change.

As for your question:
Slavery today is wrong because society says it is. We now view people as free entities with the right to do as they please.

Slavery was not wrong 3000 years ago because the societies of that time did not view it as such.

By today's standard, and the vast majority of people around today, it is wrong; but to judge the actions of the ancient world by the same standards we hold the modern world to is, as I've said before, both inaccurate and illogical.

I also asked you a question I would like answered:
Should we ignore the advances made in science, literature, philosophy, and logic just because the people who made those advances lived, and often supported, slavery and other actions that we today would consider terrible crimes?
 

Peacewise

Active Member
Slavery remains a fact of life today, as do murder, rape, incest, assault and so forth, the delusion that modern society is more refined than ancient societies is the typical inaccurate ideal that newer is better.

As I see it the only thing better is the technology. Our reasoning is no better than Newton or Plato and their peers, we stand on the backs of giants and proclaim ourselves giants.
 

Dan4reason

Facts not Faith
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, Nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind Nor thieves nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the Kingdom of God.

Slavery is a Extortion of people. It is a sinned and shouldn't be allowed.

Extortion is defined to be the unlawful taking of something from someone else. When a bureaucrat unlawfully charges a person too much that is extortion. When a hacker steals your identity and plunders your bank account, that is extortion. When a person robs a store that is extortion. This is the direct meaning of the word.

A person who is not familiar with the ways of our society may consider taxation to be extortion if these taxes are for a purpose the individual will not gain from and that person is unwilling to pay these taxes. However, these are simply the rules of society and make it a better place.

Today, slavery is obviously extortion, but people back then may not have seen it that way. They may have seen it as a legal exception. When a man sells his wife into slavery, this is not seen by them as extortion because they see a good reason for it. People may not have seen taking prisoners as slaves as extortion and only as the right of the victor. We have extablished reasons for not viewing taxation as extortion because it has a legal basis, and back then slavery had a legal basis. It is not entirely clear that Corinthians were referring to slavery when they were talking about extortion and it is unclear whether they considered slavery extortion.

That verse is very vague in its supposed banning of slavery because the writers may not have thought that slavery was extortion even though we know that it is. I will need a more direct verse which bans slavery and not something so questionable.

Not every version of the bible even includes the word "extortioners." The King James Version does as shown below in 1 Corinthians 6:10.

King James Bible
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

But here are some other translations for verse 10.

New International Version (©1984)
nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

International Standard Version (©2008)
thieves, greedy people, drunks, slanderers, and robbers will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God.

This verse does not clearly condemn slavery, why can't the new Testament just say "Thou should not have slaves for this is a slander and is unjust." Here is a link where you can find different translations.

1 Corinthians 6:10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
 

Dan4reason

Facts not Faith
It is and it isn't. Society is a collection of individuals. And yes, there is often great disagreement between individuals concerning morals. But the society exhibits the morals of the majority.

Well, most of society exhibits the morals of the majority. I would never rigidly classify the society as having a certain moral set if 51% did one thing and 49% did another. That generalization is just too broad. That is just as ridiculous as classifying America as democrat in 2008 because most people were democrats.

As for many individuals viewing slavery as wrong, I doubt it. There were many sources of slaves (war, the indebted, those born into slavery, ect) and all societies participated. The idea that people are inherently free is a fairly new notion, and the people of ancient time more that likely viewed slavery as a fact of life. It was, in their eyes, how the world worked.

You cannot assume a consensus. I will agree that at that time the general society thought that slavery was Ok as long as they were not slaves themselves. The idea that people are inherently free has been around for a very long time and we are not even sure when it started. Only until recently has a majority of people believed it. That idea has made this world a better place and it is seen that many chose to go to our country because of its freedom and prosperity. The type of society we have is far more ideal than anarchy or tyranny. The Athenians and the Romans were some civilizations to experiment with a somewhat democratic form of government.

As I said, we are not stagnant. As new ideas concerning the relationship of just about everything come about, we adjust our morals to fit them. As we started viewing people as inheritable free, individuals began to see slavery as immoral. When the majority of people in a society held this view, then society as a whole saw it as immoral. We don't change morals just because there are others out there; we change our morals when the ideas behind those morals change.

When the majority holds an idea you generalize the society as a whole to hold it. Saying that "society as whole" held an idea is simply a massive generalization. This is flat out ignoring the diversity of though that is exhibited in ever individual society because humans are rational beings. In societies we find some opinions that are more popular at some times and other mores that are more more popular at others. Of course how you see society depends on how you define it. You could talk about a world society or a national society or an ethnic society or a religious society, or a city society, or an economic society, or a family society. All these are made up of individuals who have their own opinions on how the world is. You can only measure general trends in the changes of opinion.

I want to look deeper than just the fact that opinions change. That is obvious. I want to ask why opinions change. Opinions change when people in general start changing their views obviously. However, this happens when see new experiences and evidence that a certain moral is wrong and that another is right. This change of opinion is obviously not based on the perspective that morals are just relative to the society you are in and the right opinion for now is the one held by the majority. The idea that morality is at least in part objective is a major reason ideas over time have changed. If moral relativism was true it would be wrong for individuals to think differently than the majority because the majority opinion determines what is right and what is wrong.

As for your question:
Slavery today is wrong because society says it is. We now view people as free entities with the right to do as they please.

Slavery was not wrong 3000 years ago because the societies of that time did not view it as such.

So what is right and wrong is based on a democracy? So you think that the majority are always right? I think that the majority is ignorant and that that we should be critical and not blindly follow the majority like sheep. If the majority of people thought that happiness was not important I would never blindly follow them. Time has no effect on whether an action is right or not.

Your morals will effect the actions you make, the way you perceive things, and the way you feel. This will affect your standard of life. Because of this you can use reason to try to discover the best morals and the right ones. The fact that the majority does things a certain way is not a determination of which philosophy should be used. We should use reason and not blindly follow the beliefs of the majority. Who gave such authority to the majority anyway? Why is the morals of the majority so correct anyway?

By today's standard, and the vast majority of people around today, it is wrong; but to judge the actions of the ancient world by the same standards we hold the modern world to is, as I've said before, both inaccurate and illogical.

We can judge whether an ancient society would have been better off without slavery. For example, a large percent of Romans were slaves and lived in poverty. This created a great social divide with the rich having great advantage over much of the poor. This may have been harmful for Roman society as a whole. I think I have just as much right to critically analyze the mores of my own society as I do to analyze the European Colonization, and witch burning, and ancient and modern slavery.

I also asked you a question I would like answered:
Should we ignore the advances made in science, literature, philosophy, and logic just because the people who made those advances lived, and often supported, slavery and other actions that we today would consider terrible crimes?

We should not ignore these advances but we should not ignore practices we consider harmful to these societies. Thinking critically about early societies may help us avert dangers in our own. I find it funny that you would say that there was nothing wrong with slavery 3,000 years ago, yet you would probably be horrified if most people in this society suddenly came to believe that slavery was all right and began to change the law to legalize it.
 

Dan4reason

Facts not Faith
Slavery remains a fact of life today, as do murder, rape, incest, assault and so forth, the delusion that modern society is more refined than ancient societies is the typical inaccurate ideal that newer is better.

As I see it the only thing better is the technology. Our reasoning is no better than Newton or Plato and their peers, we stand on the backs of giants and proclaim ourselves giants.

Our techonology has improved, but also our knowledge, and our legal systems and societal structures are improved since earlier times. There is still slavery, rape and murder, however, we see these less, and they are less accepted. Our society is not better than earlier ones because we are somehow superior but because we were given many good institutions by our ancestors and have the ability to refine these systems. It is due to our ancestors that we have the chance to become more refined. For example, Rome and Athens made crude attempts to create democratic governments and we have built our governments off of theirs with refinements.

Sometimes of course, societies actually degrade over time, but this is not the general trend I see. We have so much prosperity and happiness in our time compared to earlier days despite the many problems today. Our structures for reasoning have been improved by constant dialogue over thousands of years.
 

Tarheeler

Argumentative Curmudgeon
Premium Member
Well, most of society exhibits the morals of the majority. I would never rigidly classify the society as having a certain moral set if 51% did one thing and 49% did another. That generalization is just too broad. That is just as ridiculous as classifying America as democrat in 2008 because most people were democrats.

You cannot assume a consensus. I will agree that at that time the general society thought that slavery was Ok as long as they were not slaves themselves. The idea that people are inherently free has been around for a very long time and we are not even sure when it started. Only until recently has a majority of people believed it. That idea has made this world a better place and it is seen that many chose to go to our country because of its freedom and prosperity. The type of society we have is far more ideal than anarchy or tyranny. The Athenians and the Romans were some civilizations to experiment with a somewhat democratic form of government.

When the majority holds an idea you generalize the society as a whole to hold it. Saying that "society as whole" held an idea is simply a massive generalization. This is flat out ignoring the diversity of though that is exhibited in ever individual society because humans are rational beings. In societies we find some opinions that are more popular at some times and other mores that are more more popular at others. Of course how you see society depends on how you define it. You could talk about a world society or a national society or an ethnic society or a religious society, or a city society, or an economic society, or a family society. All these are made up of individuals who have their own opinions on how the world is. You can only measure general trends in the changes of opinion.

When we speak of society, we speak of it as a single entity. And, because of that, it inherits the characteristics of the majority. We can squabble all day over the differences of the individuals within that unit, but it doesn't matter. When compared to the whole, their characteristics are fairly irrelevant. Descriptions of society are, by necessity, mass generalizations.
As for your reference to the recent elections, of course we would not classify American society as democratic. The majority of America did not bother to show up to vote; we would classify American society as politically apathetic.
And the idea of inherent freedom is not old at all. While you are correct that we cannot trace it back to it's specific origins, we can trace it's rise through literature and other recorded history with culminates in eventual suffrage. If this idea had been wide spread and well articulated further back in history, then slavery would have ceased much earlier than the 1800's.

I want to look deeper than just the fact that opinions change. That is obvious. I want to ask why opinions change. Opinions change when people in general start changing their views obviously. However, this happens when see new experiences and evidence that a certain moral is wrong and that another is right. This change of opinion is obviously not based on the perspective that morals are just relative to the society you are in and the right opinion for now is the one held by the majority. The idea that morality is at least in part objective is a major reason ideas over time have changed. If moral relativism was true it would be wrong for individuals to think differently than the majority because the majority opinion determines what is right and what is wrong.

The reasons for the changing of opinions are as numerous as there are people.
People may change them when they find evidence of a more "moral" set of morals. It might also occur when a different set of morals are introduced into society by a more powerful group. This is often the case following war or revolution. Others might see personal gain or satisfaction from adopting a new set of morals. Other times, the changes follow a gradual evolution of ideas and therefore an evolution of the morality based on those ideas.
As for individuals having separate morals than the majority, we've already covered this. Each individual holds a personal moral code. When those individual codes are combined with the masses, then the morals of the majority become the morals of society by default.

So what is right and wrong is based on a democracy? So you think that the majority are always right? I think that the majority is ignorant and that that we should be critical and not blindly follow the majority like sheep. If the majority of people thought that happiness was not important I would never blindly follow them. Time has no effect on whether an action is right or not.

Your morals will effect the actions you make, the way you perceive things, and the way you feel. This will affect your standard of life. Because of this you can use reason to try to discover the best morals and the right ones. The fact that the majority does things a certain way is not a determination of which philosophy should be used. We should use reason and not blindly follow the beliefs of the majority. Who gave such authority to the majority anyway? Why is the morals of the majority so correct anyway?

Society is not now, nor has it ever been, a democracy. Society is mob rule with little to no structure or logic behind it. I agree that the majority is often ignorant and wrong (I don't see how you would assume that I thought differently from anything I've posted). But that does not stop them from making up the base for society's morals. I also agree that we shouldn't follow anything blindly. You seem to assume that I'm arguing one must conform to society in order to exist, and I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. I'm not saying that the morals of the majority are correct, but that they form the base of that societies moral code.

We can judge whether an ancient society would have been better off without slavery. For example, a large percent of Romans were slaves and lived in poverty. This created a great social divide with the rich having great advantage over much of the poor. This may have been harmful for Roman society as a whole. I think I have just as much right to critically analyze the mores of my own society as I do to analyze the European Colonization, and witch burning, and ancient and modern slavery.

But, in your opening post, you were not critically analyzing the morals of ancient society. You were not evaluating their customs for effectiveness of production of social harmony. You were criticizing their society based your personal set of morals. You were imposing the ideas and norms of the 20th century on a society that operated in a much different era and with a much different set of ideas.

We should not ignore these advances but we should not ignore practices we consider harmful to these societies. Thinking critically about early societies may help us avert dangers in our own. I find it funny that you would say that there was nothing wrong with slavery 3,000 years ago, yet you would probably be horrified if most people in this society suddenly came to believe that slavery was all right and began to change the law to legalize it.

In order to examine history critically, you try to suspend you personal beliefs and look at the period abstractly. You examine events and look at the causes and the effects, and not whether it was right or wrong.
Of course I would be horrified if today's society deemed slavery a good idea; it goes against the ideas we hold to be true today.

Why do propose to accept the efforts of those advances, while ignoring the practices we see as immoral today, and yet imply that the entire moral code of Moses people should tossed out for the same actions?
 
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