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smoking as meditation

Cypress

Dragon Mom
Note: This is not a recommendation for smoking and/or tobacco use.
I do not eighter want to discuss the health risks of smoking or tobacco.

I would be interested to hear from various sources about smoking as a meditation practice.
Smoking directs attention on breathing which is helpful in meditation and prayer.
So far I could only find out that various kinds of pipes were used in ceremonies by some native american communities.
Does someone know about sacred smoking in different cultures?
 

xkatz

Well-Known Member
Smokers actually sometimes use meditation as a way to curb their addiction actually. I can't how effective that can be though.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I used to smoke and watched the wisps form and dissipate. It wasn't part of any practice or such but it did bring about focus and concentration while watching the smoke rise and dissipate. -NM-
 

Cypress

Dragon Mom
Smokers actually sometimes use meditation as a way to curb their addiction actually. I can't how effective that can be though.
These are modern times, nowadays most smokers smoke cigarettes.
But in older cultures smoking was used differently, as offering to the gods, as prayer, that's what I am interested in.
 

wmjbyatt

Lunatic from birth
I smoke as a liminal, ritualistic practice. I step outside for a five-minute smoke, and in that five minutes I relax into eternity. It's essentially a middle-density meditation practice. Pure flow of the moment, acting without desire or will, simple movement.
 

Arav

Jain
These are modern times, nowadays most smokers smoke cigarettes.
But in older cultures smoking was used differently, as offering to the gods, as prayer, that's what I am interested in.

Some Meditators use Marijuana to help them get into a trance state. I have heard that meditators who do this say that a strong mind can remain unaffected and can help. But a weak mind will only get high.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Some Meditators use Marijuana to help them get into a trance state. I have heard that meditators who do this say that a strong mind can remain unaffected and can help. But a weak mind will only get high.
*giggles* Um.... yeah. :) It is sort of strange psychology. I will use a substance to change my state of awareness so that I can get more relaxed to get into an altered state of awareness. :rolleyes: Personally, I don't care how folks justify it, they are still "getting high" but pretending that it is something else they are getting. I'd openly suggest that honesty isn't a strong trait in such people.
 

Arav

Jain
*giggles* Um.... yeah. :) It is sort of strange psychology. I will use a substance to change my state of awareness so that I can get more relaxed to get into an altered state of awareness. :rolleyes: Personally, I don't care how folks justify it, they are still "getting high" but pretending that it is something else they are getting. I'd openly suggest that honesty isn't a strong trait in such people.

I cant disagree with you YmirGF! There is no need to use a substance to feel blissfull.
 

wmjbyatt

Lunatic from birth
I cant disagree with you YmirGF! There is no need to use a substance to feel blissfull.

Done properly, the use of psychoactives for meditative purposes is not done to achieve a blissful state. It is done to achieve a breakdown of normal cognitive functions. To meditate in many different states of mind widens our breadth of control, depth of discipline, and range of experience. Further, while no-mind is identical no matter the chemicals involved (no-mind is no-mind, after all), the path TOO no-mind is greatly changed by the introduction of chemicals that violate the homeostatic equilibrium. When we alter the path, we alter the journey, and we can learn (or unlearn) new and magnificent things.

Plus, to be frank, that ****'s just INTERESTING.
 

Smoke

Done here.
Anything you do can be done in a ritualistic and/or meditative manner, and smoking is no exception. However if someone is achieving what they think is a higher state of consciousness through smoking tobacco, I'm pretty sure that whatever state of mind they're getting into arises from their expectations and not from the tobacco itself.

Nicotine addicts don't use it to get high. We use it to feel normal. It is possible to get high from tobacco. I find that if I smoke one or two a day I get high from them. However, it's not much of a high. It's kind of a flush and a tingly feeling -- kind of like the high you get from amyl nitrate, only it's not as pronounced and it fades even faster. I don't rule out the possibility that drugs might be useful in meditation, but in my opinion they're more likely to interfere with your practice than to advance it. And even if there are drugs that might be helpful, I can't imagine how tobacco could possibly fall into that category.

Nevertheless, I understand as well as anybody just how nice a good smoke can be, and if you're going to do it, I'm all for doing it as wmjbyatt says:

I smoke as a liminal, ritualistic practice. I step outside for a five-minute smoke, and in that five minutes I relax into eternity. It's essentially a middle-density meditation practice. Pure flow of the moment, acting without desire or will, simple movement.

But there's nothing special about the tobacco itself.

Some Meditators use Marijuana to help them get into a trance state.
I think they're kidding themselves. Having some experience with both, I can't imagine any conceivable way using marijuana could possibly help you get into a trance state. If you smoke enough, you might get so impaired that you can't tell the difference.

Edit: On second thought, I guess if you're just so uptight that you can't relax or calm down, and marijuana helps you calm down, there might be some value in that. Or in talking a valium or something. But you're clouding the mind to illuminate it; it's inefficient at best and more likely to be counter-productive than really helpful.

I have heard that meditators who do this say that a strong mind can remain unaffected and can help. But a weak mind will only get high.
:D Well, if a weak mind will only get high, it's not helping the weak-minded. And if the strong-minded remain unaffected, it's not helping them either. I'm sorry, but that's just a remarkably silly rationalization. I have nothing against smoking. As far as I'm concerned, any adult who wants to smoke tobacco or marijuana or both should go for it. You can even make it part of your religious practice if you want. But don't kid yourself about what you're doing.
 
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Smoke

Done here.
Done properly, the use of psychoactives for meditative purposes is not done to achieve a blissful state. It is done to achieve a breakdown of normal cognitive functions. To meditate in many different states of mind widens our breadth of control, depth of discipline, and range of experience. Further, while no-mind is identical no matter the chemicals involved (no-mind is no-mind, after all), the path TOO no-mind is greatly changed by the introduction of chemicals that violate the homeostatic equilibrium. When we alter the path, we alter the journey, and we can learn (or unlearn) new and magnificent things.

Plus, to be frank, that ****'s just INTERESTING.
I agree that it's interesting, but I think there's a natural tendency to imagine that one is reaching new heights of consciousness when in fact one is just ****** up. It's a kind of practice that readily lends itself to self-delusion, and not just anybody can pull it off successfully.
 

Noaidi

slow walker
Shamans in the Peruvian Amazon will blow tobacco smoke over the person they are healing. It's seen as an act of purification.
 

wmjbyatt

Lunatic from birth
I agree that it's interesting, but I think there's a natural tendency to imagine that one is reaching new heights of consciousness when in fact one is just ****** up. It's a kind of practice that readily lends itself to self-delusion, and not just anybody can pull it off successfully.

Having walked that path, I have to agree with this. It is, indeed, far too easy to convince oneself that one is reaching levels of "higher" consciousness, when instead one is just reaching DIFFERENT forms of consciousness. It is, indeed, common to convince oneself that what one sees and thinks and understands while altered is some "truth" greater than that which is experienced while sober.
 

SageTree

Spiritual Friend
Premium Member
*giggles* Um.... yeah. :) It is sort of strange psychology. I will use a substance to change my state of awareness so that I can get more relaxed to get into an altered state of awareness. :rolleyes: Personally, I don't care how folks justify it, they are still "getting high" but pretending that it is something else they are getting. I'd openly suggest that honesty isn't a strong trait in such people.

I cant disagree with you YmirGF! There is no need to use a substance to feel blissfull.


When asked most Indian teachers don't deny the ability for drugs to take you to a higher state of awareness, They do however say most people aren't ready for such an experience and can cause damage.

I would also ask you to tell this to a Rastafarian or Native North and South Americans.
 

Antibush5

Active Member
I find drugs and tabbacco, to be more of an earthly attachment then something used to a spiritual end. I don't smoke myself, so I guess that makes me bias.
But I do drink from time to time, so would you say drinking takes me to a higher state of awarness? Of course not, it slows my mind. Smoking may make people feel normal, but do you think that somebody with an addiction could achieve enlightenment? Not in my oppinion.
 

Arav

Jain
I would also ask you to tell this to a Rastafarian or Native North and South Americans.

So what you are saying is that all Rastafarians and Native north and south americans say that you need to use substances to acheive a state of bliss?
 

wmjbyatt

Lunatic from birth
Smoking may make people feel normal, but do you think that somebody with an addiction could achieve enlightenment? Not in my oppinion.

Why not? I think that there's a flaw in assuming that there's a hard-and-fast separation between the spiritual world and the physical world. It seems to me that high spirituality comes not from elevating the spirit above the body, but rather from recognizing the spirituality of the world. The whole material world is sacred and holy and glorious. This includes all that is in it.

Besides, we are all addicted to food and water. We don't treat this as addiction, but the point holds: there are physical cravings for these things, and we suffer if we do not indulge these cravings.
 

Arav

Jain
I find drugs and tabbacco, to be more of an earthly attachment then something used to a spiritual end. I don't smoke myself, so I guess that makes me bias.
But I do drink from time to time, so would you say drinking takes me to a higher state of awarness? Of course not, it slows my mind. Smoking may make people feel normal, but do you think that somebody with an addiction could achieve enlightenment? Not in my oppinion.

What AntiBush has posted here is what I see to be right in my view.
 

Arav

Jain
Why not? I think that there's a flaw in assuming that there's a hard-and-fast separation between the spiritual world and the physical world. It seems to me that high spirituality comes not from elevating the spirit above the body, but rather from recognizing the spirituality of the world. The whole material world is sacred and holy and glorious. This includes all that is in it.

Besides, we are all addicted to food and water. We don't treat this as addiction, but the point holds: there are physical cravings for these things, and we suffer if we do not indulge these cravings.

We are not addicted to food and water, we NEED them. Huge difference. And one cant be attached to drugs to acheive enlightenment. It is the complete un-attachment to the world that lends one the realization called "Enlightenment".
 

wmjbyatt

Lunatic from birth
We are not addicted to food and water, we NEED them. Huge difference. And one cant be attached to drugs to acheive enlightenment. It is the complete un-attachment to the world that lends one the realization called "Enlightenment".

First of all, absolute necessity doesn't exist. We only need food and water in order to stay alive. There is no imperative that we need to stay alive. There is no, indeed, absolute imperative anywhere governing the action of a self. If there are absolute imperatives, they operate at a scale higher than that of an individual ego. As such, we don't NEED food and water. Plus, utter un-attachment to the world includes those things that exist in the world. Specifically, food and water exist in the world. Are you saying that achieve enlightenment we must detach ourselves from food and water? Gautama Buddha would disagree: he even said so to the ascetics.

I further disagree with the thesis that complete un-attachment to the world is the only path to enlightenment, because I don't believe that there is a single path to enlightenment. We each have our own Dharma, and that is our path, our Way. Enlightenment can be attained through a complete lack of attachment to the material world, or it can be achieved through a complete immersion into the material world, and an infinite number of other ways.

To claim that there is one Way is to make the same mistake that plagues the Abrahamic faiths and has led to war, death, and unrest throughout history. In striving for truth, we must recognize that there are ten thousand ways to come to truth, and no named Dharma has monopoly on access to that truth. We start on our paths towards enlightenment before we are aware of it, and once we begin actively seeking that end, we have already set our selves into certain modes of operation, and these pre-conditionings make it so that we are closer to the truth by one path than another.

My Dharma is not your Dharma. But my Dharma leads me to the same joy and understanding to which your Dharma leads.
 
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