Smoking Gun, Oh Atheists?

[It Aint Necessarily So]

It sounds like you're saying it's okay for atheists to actually be self-righteous, even though they don't believe the word "righteous" is a thing.

Where did you get that? Of course righteous is a "thing."

Righteous - "morally right or justifiable; virtuous."

You have an exceedingly low opinion of atheists. Do you consider that attitude righteous? If so, on what basis? Scripture?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I'm having a hard time understanding the focus on rape in this thread. Why is it getting more airtime than murder, or theft, or destruction of property, or slavery, or any of a multitude of other abuses of man against man?

The humanist understands that he has the same rights -- and no more! -- that he is willing to allow everyone else. The humanist understands that he has the same obligations -- and no more! -- that she is willing to demand of everyone else.

Now, if you see yourself, and your children, and the people you care about, deserving and enjoying being raped, or murdered, or stolen from, or despised, or disfellowshipped, excommunicated and what-have-you, then perhaps you might have a case to make for why any of those things might enjoy some sort of ethical validation. If you would distinctly NOT like those things happening to you, you now have a bullet-proof argument for why it would unethical for you to inflict them on others.

I do not need "God" or "10 Commandments" to figure that out.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Attention all atheists, and those who love them as much as I do (which is considerable):

Who do you think is buying that? Have you forgotten all of the demeaning things you have said about atheists? That's not love. That's you claiming that such behavior is love.

Is this the best you folks have to offer, really? "Of course, rape is wrong".

It beats your Bible, which nowhere says that rape is always wrong.

Do you disagree with humanists that rape is wrong? The only alternative is that it is right, or at least not wrong.

Hint: In the animal kingdom and that thing of beauty atheists worship known as Evolution, rape is propagation of the species.

"Of course, Evolution is true. Do what you must to survive, and over time, what survives must flourish. Of course, rape is wrong . . . "

You continue to malign atheists.

Is this the love of which you spoke? No, thanks.

Incidentally, I'll leave the worshiping to you.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm having a hard time understanding the focus on rape in this thread. Why is it getting more airtime than murder, or theft, or destruction of property, or slavery, or any of a multitude of other abuses of man against man?

The humanist understands that he has the same rights -- and no more! -- that he is willing to allow everyone else. The humanist understands that he has the same obligations -- and no more! -- that she is willing to demand of everyone else.

Now, if you see yourself, and your children, and the people you care about, deserving and enjoying being raped, or murdered, or stolen from, or despised, or disfellowshipped, excommunicated and what-have-you, then perhaps you might have a case to make for why any of those things might enjoy some sort of ethical validation. If you would distinctly NOT like those things happening to you, you now have a bullet-proof argument for why it would unethical for you to inflict them on others.

I do not need "God" or "10 Commandments" to figure that out.

We're a very feminist forum.
Rape is the ultimate crime....worse than torture, murder, etc.
So it's used as the focus for morality & justice discussions.

If I seem flippant, I'm only partially so.
Some posters have indeed argued that being killed isn't as bad as surviving woe.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They are if a particular religion is true. For example if the bible is true then it's moral duties and values apply to you, regardless of whether or not you find that convenient.

Then it is up to the Christians to provide evidence supporting the Bible.
Sadly, even when I try to help them in this area many reject it.

 

[shmogie]

How can atheism be "simply the absence of theistic belief. Neither good or bad, simply a different world view" and intertwined with a political agenda. You've completely contradicted yourself here.

Not at all. If you had read the books I mentioned, you would learn that atheism for these communist writers were the ideal for their socialist workers. In a society totally based upon materialism they believed that spiritual concerns, the discipline and authority found in a religious organization, threatened the state, diffused control of the state, and diluted total commitment to the state. TODAY the above definition describes atheism in most country's , nevertheless in the past communist societies based upon the Marx and Engels formula promote atheism and deride religious belief. The state is the ultimate authority, the ultimate receiver of total commitment, the ultimate solver of all problems. The statement that "religion is the opiate of the people " was more than a saying, it was an inherent part of the philosophy, and the states role was to ensure citizens didn't partake of this harmful drug

 

[Alison Wonderland]

Not at all. If you had read the books I mentioned, you would learn that atheism for these communist writers were the ideal for their socialist workers. In a society totally based upon materialism they believed that spiritual concerns, the discipline and authority found in a religious organization, threatened the state, diffused control of the state, and diluted total commitment to the state. TODAY the above definition describes atheism in most country's , nevertheless in the past communist societies based upon the Marx and Engels formula promote atheism and deride religious belief. The state is the ultimate authority, the ultimate receiver of total commitment, the ultimate solver of all problems. The statement that "religion is the opiate of the people " was more than a saying, it was an inherent part of the philosophy, and the states role was to ensure citizens didn't partake of this harmful drug

I again refer you to what atheism actually is:

- an absence of a belief in theism

For something to be "intertwined" as you've invested the time in explaining, you don't seem to have much of an understanding of it.

Hitler and Stalin had moustaches; was the moustache to blame?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

We dont need the bible to see how people are affected from having sex they didnt consent to.

Hey, Carlita! Hope you're well.

Question: What about having sex they do consent to? (Outside of marriage, ie., with no commitment?)

The Bible says to avoid that, also.

Im sure you realize that would cut down on the spread of STD's.

Plus, people never forget their willing first time. There seems to be an invisible bond that is forged, something inherently psychological; having to do with giving up something special, it being the first time. It's best when this bond occurs between two virgins who are married.

There are many more benefits to be reaped from a man and woman applying that counsel!

Are there any other religious writings that give counsel on restricting sexual relations to be only between married couples, and including how they should treat each other? (This results in strong family units, with well-grounded children; ultimately, leading to less crime!)

I know of none! i see the wisdom in this counsel....the more society disregards the Bible's counsel, the more we'll see it splinter. It's bad, already!

Take care, my cousin....and best wishes!

 

[Hockeycowboy]

It also tells a rape victim to marry her rapist, and it permits the use of sex slaves (even capturing them), which is still rape.

Can you provide the Scriptures?

 

[Jeremiahcp]

I again refer you to what atheism actually is:

- an absence of a belief in theism

For something to be "intertwined" as you've invested the time in explaining, you don't seem to have much of an understanding of it.

Hitler and Stalin had moustaches; was the moustache to blame?

Now, now we all know mustaches are evil.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Question: What about having sex they do consent to? (Outside of marriage, ie., with no commitment?)

If not rape and bith consenting, who am I to judge? I have no regulations on who has sex as long as its healthy.

I know of none! i see the wisdom in this counsel....the more society disregards the Bible's counsel, the more we'll see it splinter. It's bad, already!

Haha. You need to study more religions.

Islam
Judaism
Buddhism (theravada)
Santeria
Catholicism
Hinduism

All cultural religions do

Those who practice solo may develop their own morals

Look outside. Its beautiful out there even if you dont enjoy the season.

 

[Underhill]

Help me understand your logic:

1. Evolution didn't make ANYTHING.

2. Less intelligent species commit rape.

3. I never said, "atheists are in favor of rape" but you wrote, "But the idea that atheist are in favor of those things as a result ignores our position in the evolutionary chain. Part of what makes us human is our intelligence that allows us to rise above such destructive behavior."

Okay, rise above it. Say RAPE IS OBJECTIVELY WRONG so we can all rise above.

1) Yes, evolution is not a being who makes something. It is a process that happens without direction or plan.

2) Obviously rape occurs among humans too. But our intelligence allows us to see the perfectly logical reasons why, both as a society and as individuals, behavior is important to us all.

3) Yes I said that.

Clear enough?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

We're a very feminist forum.
Rape is the ultimate crime....worse than torture, murder, etc.
So it's used as the focus for morality & justice discussions.

If I seem flippant, I'm only partially so.
Some posters have indeed argued that being killed isn't as bad as surviving woe.

On the other hand, as the victim of child sexual and physical abuse -- almost to the death -- I tend to disagree with that last bit. It took a while, but I've wound up essentially pretty healthy, emotionally. And enjoying it!

 

[1robin]

Like when they hung all those "witches" during the Salem Witch trial. Because unthinking morality is just great!

That was what a dozen people? Just the atheist utopias of the 20th century alone killed off tens of millions. Now those 12 deaths were 12 to many, and the 3000 or so killed by the inquisition were 3000 too many, and the tens of thousands killed by the crusaders were tens of thousands too many but you need to include consistent perspectives in your arguments.

BTW I do not shy away from the horrific things done in the name of Christianity, but I do challenge you to show me what part of the bible grounded those horrific actions. A teaching is judged by those who practice it, not by those that defy it.

 

[1robin]

I don't care if people believe in gods, fairies, or Big Foot, but dogmatic morality is stupid and dangerous.

So

1. Though shall not steal.
2. Though shall not murder.
3. Though shall not commit adultery.
4. Though shall not covet thy neighbors' possessions.
5. Do not be greedy.
6. Do not be an idolater.
7. Do not be a drunkard.
8. Do not be a swindler.
9. Do not become sexually impure (this one alone would have prevented millions of STD deaths and saved billions).
10. Do not slander.

etc...... Are all bad and silly, so we should replace them with all that is left if God does not exist, moral relativism or might makes right? No wonder no society in the history of mankind has used social Darwinism as the foundation for law. The closest we came was Hitler's Germany.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Can you provide the Scriptures?

I find this an interesting question. I am not a Christian, yet a Christian is asking where in their own book these atrocities are contained. Sadly, especially in regards to sex slavery, it is found throughout the OT where women are labeled as property, considered part of the spoils of war, and in Exodus if she is a virgin she can't even refuse to be wed to her rapist.

 

[1robin]

Then it is up to the Christians to provide evidence supporting the Bible.
Sadly, even when I try to help them in this area many reject it.

I am not sure what to conclude from what you said.

1. I was talking about what impact on the nature of morality God's existence or absence would mean.
2. You responded by saying that Christians should present the evidence for God's existence, and that you try to help them.

A. Do you want to discuss the ontology of morality?
B. Are you saying you are a Christian and try to help others see the evidence for his existence?
C. Or that your not a Christian and you can't find one who will present their evidence for God's existence?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Just the atheist utopias

We've not had any nations that are driven by an atheist agenda or dogma.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Some posters have indeed argued that being killed isn't as bad as surviving woe.

I expect most people who would express that they hold such a view, probably haven't survived any woes nearly as awful as they'd like to affect.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

1. I was talking about what impact on the nature of morality God's existence or absence would mean.

The nature of morality should not depend on or care if there is a god or not. Are people really so pathetic they need a book and a god to tell them to take care of each other? To not steal, kill, and cause undue harm? Is having ourselves and each other, to help provide for and to be provided for, to care for each other and be cared for, who honestly needs a religion to tell them these things?

2. You responded by saying that Christians should present the evidence for God's existence, and that you try to help them.

Yes, such as when I point out Genesis, as long as it's not interpreted in a literal 24-hour seven days, it does kind of go along with the theory of evolution in how we see the gradual appearance of different species. Many a Christian though do not like to hear this.

A. Do you want to discuss the ontology of morality?

If you wish to start another threat with that as the topic.

B. Are you saying you are a Christian and try to help others see the evidence for his existence?

It should be apparent that I am not a Christian.

C. Or that your not a Christian and you can't find one who will present their evidence for God's existence?

I've seen some try, but they don't present evidence, they present speculation and/or Biblical passages, which are self-contained and thus not evidence.