So I just started reading The God Delusion..

[Magic Man]

Now see, I wish I'd read your response before I wrote mine. I like yours better.

I feel that way about his posts quite frequently actually.

 

[Magic Man]

Heh. I don't know, maybe I'm doing the same thing as a YEC, rejecting the science that doesn't line up with me theology, but it really doesn't make any sense to me.

It doesn't make much sense to me either, but I can see it being true.

Especially in light of the multiverse theory. Are we supposed to believe that all the universes were born at once? If not, then there's time outside them.

I think that's a different story altogether.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I've been saying for years that the historical Jesus just isn't that relevant to Christianity, and if he's not even relevant to Christianity, you have to wonder why we're all so interested in him. Upbringing and culture, I guess.

I can see why Christians would want their beliefs rooted in fact. I also think that many of them see the Gospels as a historical account, not as an accretion of larger myths around a smaller historical figure. They think they're arguing for the whole pearl, not just the grain of sand at the centre.

Now see, I wish I'd read your response before I wrote mine. I like yours better.

Thanks! I liked yours, too.

 

[Storm]

I think that's a different story altogether.

Howso?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Heh. I don't know, maybe I'm doing the same thing as a YEC, rejecting the science that doesn't line up with me theology, but it really doesn't make any sense to me.

Anything other than three spatial dimensions and one temporal dimension makes my brain hurt, personally.

I feel that way about his posts quite frequently actually.

Aww. You're going to make me blush!

 

[Magic Man]

Howso?

I don't know much about the multiverse theory, but it seems to me that it's different than the Big Bang, and therefore somewhat irrelevant when talking about the Big Bang and time.

 

[Storm]

I don't know much about the multiverse theory, but it seems to me that it's different than the Big Bang, and therefore somewhat irrelevant when talking about the Big Bang and time.

Sorry, love, but I see it as quite relevant. Science is supposed to harmonize.

 

[Storm]

We are so far off-topic. I hope the OP doesn't mind.... :sorry1:

 

[Magic Man]

Sorry, love, but I see it as quite relevant. Science is supposed to harmonize.

I know. I guess I'm just saying that the Big Bang Theory and the multiverse theory don't necessarily go together, as in the multiverse theory doesn't seem to assume a big bang. If there's no big bang, then our question here is moot.

 

[Storm]

I know. I guess I'm just saying that the Big Bang Theory and the multiverse theory don't necessarily go together, as in the multiverse theory doesn't seem to assume a big bang. If there's no big bang, then our question here is moot.

It doesn't? What does it propose as an alternative?

Either way, it still seems to contradict the idea that time is ONLY another dimension of space.

:help:

 

[Dirty Penguin]

This is a thread about the book "The God Delusion", not a thread for trying to convince people about the accuracy of the Bible.

Thank you. I haven't even gone through the first page and wouldn't you know it.....? He comes one of them....talking about something that has absolutely nothing to do with this thread....

 

[Dirty Penguin]

well he is mentioned so much in the gospels (evidence) which means he probably did. so did gilgamesh, hercules, and everyone else who has been metioned in paper (L.R.R. Hood.)

Aslan has been mentioned so much in the Chronicles of Narnia that he, a talking lion, must surely have existed.....

Ever hear the expression....."Don't believe everything you read".....

Well...it's true.....

 

[Dirty Penguin]

We do know that whoever wrote Matthew and Luke based their text on that of whoever wrote Mark, with their own biases - i.e, the writer of Matthew felt compelled to relate every possible prophecy he could in the OT to the supposed coming of Christ, even though they weren't related at all. This suggests strongly there were other reasons for writing these books than "recording" the supposed life of Christ.

Exactly.....In Luke's gospel it is important to note that he, or the writer, says explicitly that the information contained in that book was gathered from those who said they were eyewitnesses. So Luke or the writer wasn't even there. We have no way of testing the validity of the statements given to the author of Luke nor does the author go into any sort of detail as to how he verified his sources. He could have just been lying, because he copied off Mark and Mathew, in order to convert Theopolis.

Shucks I don't know.....But I do know the bible is no history book. I mean, I've never been in the library and seen the bible in the history section. Some time ago I used to see it in the Fiction section. Let's face it..there is a lot of fiction in that book. Now a days they (bible, quran...etc....) have their own (Religious) section. But keep in mind it's lumped in with the rest of the world religious books. Surely ALL of then can't be history books....I'm just sayin'........

 

[Magic Man]

It doesn't? What does it propose as an alternative?

Either way, it still seems to contradict the idea that time is ONLY another dimension of space.

:help:

I don't know what an alternative might be. What I'm saying is that if the Big Bang is assumed, then time didn't exist before it. If the multiverse includes the Big Bang, then the same holds true. If a particular multiverse theory (or hypothesis) excludes the Big Bang, then the question is irrelevant.

 

[Storm]

I don't know what an alternative might be. What I'm saying is that if the Big Bang is assumed, then time didn't exist before it. If the multiverse includes the Big Bang, then the same holds true. If a particular multiverse theory (or hypothesis) excludes the Big Bang, then the question is irrelevant.

OK, I'm opining from ignorance, but it seems to me that the multiverse theory would still hold that our universe was formed in the Big Bang. At least, I don't see why it wouldn't. Further, it's reasonable to assume that's how the other universes formed. Time is the context in which these things happened.

To say that time began with the Big Bang is to say that there was no context. There's ALWAYS context.

Did that make any sense at all?

 

[Magic Man]

OK, I'm opining from ignorance, but it seems to me that the multiverse theory would still hold that our universe was formed in the Big Bang. At least, I don't see why it wouldn't. Further, it's reasonable to assume that's how the other universes formed. Time is the context in which these things happened.

To say that time began with the Big Bang is to say that there was no context. There's ALWAYS context.

As I said, I don't know much about the multiverse theories either. I was just assuming that they might not include a big bang. If they do, then the same applies to them. There's always context, but it changes. I know it's hard to imagine how time could not exist. I don't really grasp it fully myself. It's like trying to imagine how space didn't exist before the big bang. But time is a lot different in physics than how we tend to think about it.

Did that make any sense at all?

No. (J/K)

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Yes, but it's very likely that parts of Mark were added later on, so probably part of it was before the destruction, and other parts after.

Yea, but that's the point being made here. When it comes to these writings they are full of holes and is basically leaving stuff up to interpretation....even to the point of editing or adding to them.

 

[logician]

I've been saying for years that the historical Jesus just isn't that relevant to Christianity, and if he's not even relevant to Christianity, you have to wonder why we're all so interested in him. Upbringing and culture, I guess.

You obviously have not spoken to many Christians.

 

[logician]

Time does not exist w/o matter and energy, therefore one must have the birth of a universe to have time. Time itself is not an absolute measure, but a relative measure, even on earth we live in "different" time zones.

 

[sandandfoam]

You obviously have not spoken to many Christians.

I agree with Midnightblue. It's the ideal of Jesus that's important.