• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

So, what is Syncretic Religion?

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
Victor said:
You know, not that my opinion counts on this but syncretic does seem appropriate for UU.
Hi Victor. :) The thing is that not all UUs are syncretic. I pretty much am. My personal theology is an attempt to reconcile the differences in the various world religions, and my spiritual practice borrows from Paganism, Buddhism, Hinduism Judaism, and Christianity. But, for someone like my senior minister, he respects other religious traditions and may even quote the Buddha now and then, but his theology and spiritual practice come almost entirely from a liberal (contemplative) Christian tradition and he feels no need for it to be otherwise. And there are Buddhist and Pagan leaning UUs who really don't want to have much to do with Christianity. And for atheist UUs, they may not even have a spiritual practice. To say that UU as a whole is syncretic kinda implies that each UU is syncretic, and some UUs would object to that.


I have appreciated the constructive input from two of my favorite non-UUs :hug: ...but I'm still hopin' for UUs to chime in! :)
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
lilithu said:
Hi Victor. :) The thing is that not all UUs are syncretic. I pretty much am. My personal theology is an attempt to reconcile the differences in the various world religions, and my spiritual practice borrows from Paganism, Buddhism, Hinduism Judaism, and Christianity. But, for someone like my senior minister, he respects other religious traditions and may even quote the Buddha now and then, but his theology and spiritual practice come almost entirely from a liberal (contemplative) Christian tradition and he feels no need for it to be otherwise. And there are Buddhist and Pagan leaning UUs who really don't want to have much to do with Christianity. And for atheist UUs, they may not even have a spiritual practice. To say that UU as a whole is syncretic kinda implies that each UU is syncretic, and some UUs would object to that.


I have appreciated the constructive input from two of my favorite non-UUs :hug: ...but I'm still hopin' for UUs to chime in! :)

I see, then I haven't the slightest idea where it could go. :cover:
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
lilithu said:
Are there any other examples of "omnitheism?"
Hmmm. I don't know of any specific groups. But Mysticism could certainly fit into the category, as could the beliefs behind Chaos Magick.

There aren't that many inclusive religions out there.

lilithu said:
So am I a panentheist AND an omnitheist? :confused:
As far as i can tell, you can be anything and an omnitheist, the article says;
Omnitheism is the belief that every religion contains at its core an appreciation of the nature of the universe.
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
I hope you don't mind if I stick my beak in here, but for what it's worth, if I were looking for UU, Syncretic Religions makes sense to me, though I realize that's not a perfect fit.

It's not a perfect fit to put Baha'i under Abrahamic religions either, since we're *very* pluralistic and recognize the Dharmic religions as foundational as well, but it's close enough that people would know where to find us.

The thing is...if someone were looking for an area for a religion, how can we make it easiest for them to find it?

Well, just my $0.02.
 

des

Active Member
Booko said:
I hope you don't mind if I stick my beak in here, but for what it's worth, if I were looking for UU, Syncretic Religions makes sense to me, though I realize that's not a perfect fit.

It's not a perfect fit to put Baha'i under Abrahamic religions either, since we're *very* pluralistic and recognize the Dharmic religions as foundational as well, but it's close enough that people would know where to find us.

The thing is...if someone were looking for an area for a religion, how can we make it easiest for them to find it?

Well, just my $0.02.


I suppose they could have used the term 20-21th Century, but that wouldn't have made everyone happy either, since the roots are earlier. (Baha'i clearly has roots in Islam, afaik.)

You could do inclusive religions, maybe someone wouldnt' like that either. As Baha'is will attest some Abrahamic religions are MORE inclusive too. (I know some Unity people also. They seem to be pretty inclusive. Although their roots are clearly Protestant.)

I think I have the perfect category. "A group that won't be happy no matter where we place them". LOL! :)

Someone asked whether UU was a religion. I think they should start a new thread on that one. It sounds fun. I'm guessing no one will agree. :)

--des
 

des

Active Member
I suppose they could have used the term 20-21th Century, but that wouldn't have made everyone happy either, since the roots are earlier. (Baha'i clearly has roots in Islam, afaik.) (Of course by similar thinking then UU should be there too, because its roots are in Christianity. But I think the tree took a turn. :))

You could do inclusive religions, maybe someone wouldnt' like that either. As Baha'is will attest some Abrahamic religions are MORE inclusive too. (I know some Unity people also. They seem to be pretty inclusive. Although their roots are clearly Protestant.)

Note: Of course this term "inclusive" is used to mean religious practice (i.e. taking in practices from other traditions)-- not in whether they think that other ways are valid. I think most progressives of any faith believe that the other paths are valid (no not all other paths, I am limiting this.)

I think I have the perfect category. "A group that won't be happy no matter where we place them". LOL! :)

Someone asked whether UU was a religion. I think they should start a new thread on that one. It sounds fun. I'm guessing no one will agree. :)

--des
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
Halcyon said:
Hmmm. I don't know of any specific groups. But Mysticism could certainly fit into the category, as could the beliefs behind Chaos Magick.
The thing is... mysticism is not a religion. It is an approach to religion. There are mystical approaches to nearly all the major religions. UU has a strong mystical heritage, believe it or not. :) Especially our Trasncendentalists, including Ralph Waldo Emerson.
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
Terrywoodenpic said:
Reading through this thread are you all sure UU's are a religion at all.
We consider ourselves a religion. Anyone who thinks otherwise is welcome to start a thread in the debates forum. :) I'm sure it's been debated before but it's a good topic - what constitutes a religion?
 

des

Active Member
lilithu said:
We consider ourselves a religion. Anyone who thinks otherwise is welcome to start a thread in the debates forum. :) I'm sure it's been debated before but it's a good topic - what constitutes a religion?

It could be put in this section but only in a way so it's a discussion not a debate. For instance, he could write: "Why is it that you consider UU a religion?" But he can't write something like "I don't think you are even a religion. yadayada. prove it. "

--des
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
Booko said:
The thing is...if someone were looking for an area for a religion, how can we make it easiest for them to find it?

Well, just my $0.02.
When we first started restructuring the forums many moons ago to fit in more religions, we had several options. One was to list them all in alphbetical order to not show preference and to make a religion easy to find. Well, the list was pretty long and that just wasn't going to work functionally. The other option was to do as we did, group religions together than have similar beliefs, histories or figures. Doing this also gave the advantage of a general idea about a religion within that group, even if you'd never heard of them before. For most religions deciding where they went was an easy one once we got fairly broad groupings. Baha'is and UUs were, and still are, among the most difficult to place simply because depending on who you ask, and their perception of their religion, will change where it should go.

I personally think UU is unique enough among all religions and that no other religion is even remotely close to it theologically, that it should be completely on it's own. But is that really true, or just my own bias?
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
Maize said:

I personally think UU is unique enough among all religions and that no other religion is even remotely close to it theologically, that it should be completely on it's own. But is that really true, or just my own bias?
From what i've read, i would agree with you Amy. Even Baha'i, which is a very inclusive and tolerant religion, doesn't allow for the range of beliefs that UU does.

Perhaps a subsection called Inclusive Religions would be able to encompass the UU and Baha'i without problems of definition?
 

uumckk16

Active Member
Halcyon said:
From what i've read, i would agree with you Amy. Even Baha'i, which is a very inclusive and tolerant religion, doesn't allow for the range of beliefs that UU does.

Perhaps a subsection called Inclusive Religions would be able to encompass the UU and Baha'i without problems of definition?
That strikes me as the best option mentioned so far on this thread to describe UU - but then again, it seems insulting to other religious traditions, as if they aren't inclusive, which isn't fair because obviously many are.

:faint:
 

des

Active Member
Yes, I think the term has multiple meanings. The meaning desired is something like inclusive of many traditions. I'm not sure that strictly speaking Baha'i would be but then I have somewhat limited knowledge of Baha'i-- been to the headquarters in Wilmette Ill. (wow!).

However, UU wouldn't be alone in being inclusive of differences in people, such as gay friendly, say. Many progressives across religious traditions are inclusive in that way.

--des

uumckk16 said:
That strikes me as the best option mentioned so far on this thread to describe UU - but then again, it seems insulting to other religious traditions, as if they aren't inclusive, which isn't fair because obviously many are.

:faint:
 

applewuud

Active Member
Back to the "syncretic" argument: I was reading a sermon by A. Powell Davies, a famous Unitarian minister, and this passage brought me back to this thread:

"[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]To Unitarians, also, the brotherhood of man is not restricted, whether by nation, race or creed. This means that the world is one community, whatever may be its several cultures and its many provinces. No one is shut out from human brotherhood because of color, nationality, or religion. Unitarians do not expect the entire world to accept the Christian creed. They do not support missionaries to try to bring about this mistaken and impossible purpose. They look to the common underlying faith of all mankind to draw the peoples of the earth together, not through conversion from one faith to another, but through federating all traditions in a common loyalty to what unites them, and in the building of a higher truth through freedom of belief. "

So here's a major Unitarian historical figure supporting the syncretic argument "federating all traditions", preaching in 1946.
[/FONT]
 
Interesting thread! I'll admit that I'm probably one of a minority of UU's who are almost fanatical in my faith, and have been for over 30 years now. (After all, how many people do you know who actually go to a public library to "find a religion"...literally investing days, studying and comparing the various religions of the world--large and small--before finally narrowing my choices and selecting UU as the one which I could support "heart and soul," without reservation?) While I would not by any means want to suggest that "everything UU" is as dead-serious as that, I'm quick to suggest (or contend) that to me at least some of it is, and that what we have to offer society is both distinctive and worth sharing.

I thought I needed to offer you that background info to explain why, when I decided to launch some online discussion groups for UU's, two of them were deliberately intended for the "sinking of our teeth into deeper issues"---such as the one covered here, in this thread. (Those groups are actually aimed at "UU-style evangelism" and all sorts of issues relating to UU growth, or lack thereof). Anyway, this is a conversation that I always welcome, as long as its tone is respectful and courteous.

In one of those groups, I posed the question "Is there a liberal protocol" (in religion)? I suggested that yes, there is one: It goes largely unspoken and is not as "dogmatically carved as stone" as most orthodoxy faiths, of course...but it still does exist. It's a protocol composed mostly of shared attitudes and methodology--and is therefore defined mostly by adjectives more than nouns--but it's still real and substatial, and even carries with it certain (at least implied) mutual expectations.

One of our expectations of one another is that we at least will try to use our precious freedoms wisely...an expectation of discipline (self-imposed). This goes beyond the shallow belief that "we can believe anything we want to." We also expect from one another at least an attempt at being honest...at integrity, or continuity in our beliefs, and between our beliefs and the lives we live. (One pre-merger Unitarian minister even once contended that a "dishonest Unitarian is a contradiction in terms.) And, flowing from such a "true colors" approach to religion also (inevitably) comes honest admissions of our human limitations ...including limits to "what we really know" as "absolute Truth." (In other words, humility, tolerance and openness--qualities that are all-too-often lacking in the realm of religion--are actually hard-wired into our approach to religion.) So...to make a long story/essay/sermon short, I'd agree with those who feel that there is more to UU than a pluralistic collection of other faiths. What we have is our own distinctive tradition and legacy in religion that is every bit as hard-won, legitimate and valid as any of the others. It just seems to me that what we share together--as kindred spirits of liberal faith-- goes a little deeper than just a "pluralistic buffet" of religious beliefs and rituals. It asks a bit more of us than just to be there, in that lunch-line, at that cafeteria of freedom, reason and tolerance.

I'm not sure that I've articulated that very well, but maybe it makes sense. I'd certainly be interested in your own take on this!
 
Hi Applewuud! Just wanted to say that I'm a big "Powell Davies" fan, and have been for decades. I'm glad to see that Chris and the folks at UU World are finally doing some articles about him. While understanding Rev. Davies admittedly requires that we know a little about the times in which he lived (during and post WWII), I think he had a solid grasp and focus on what is distinctive about Unitarianism (and Universalism...he died before the merger), and arguably, the need to respectfully share this "Faith of the Free" with the rest of the world. In his book "America's Real Religion," for example, he talked about a faith freed from the rigid constraints of dogma, but also suggested that this "faith behind freedom" need not be confined to any one religious denomination. In that sense, he saw UU as having something to "give to" other religious traditions, as well as something to "borrow from" them.

As I've respectfully submitted in discussions on a number of occasions, our modern-day UU faith---and this faster-moving, ever-shrinking, but deeply fragmented world---could really use A. Powell Davies and his passionate spirit and leadership these days. Had he not died when he did, I think he would likely have been the first president of the merged denomination, and because of this, I seems to me that there might also be a lot less ambiguity now about what "UU is all about" and why it exists.
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
applewuud said:
Back to the "syncretic" argument: I was reading a sermon by A. Powell Davies, a famous Unitarian minister, and this passage brought me back to this thread:

"[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]To Unitarians, also, the brotherhood of man is not restricted, whether by nation, race or creed. This means that the world is one community, whatever may be its several cultures and its many provinces. No one is shut out from human brotherhood because of color, nationality, or religion. Unitarians do not expect the entire world to accept the Christian creed. They do not support missionaries to try to bring about this mistaken and impossible purpose. They look to the common underlying faith of all mankind to draw the peoples of the earth together, not through conversion from one faith to another, but through federating all traditions in a common loyalty to what unites them, and in the building of a higher truth through freedom of belief. "

So here's a major Unitarian historical figure supporting the syncretic argument "federating all traditions", preaching in 1946.
[/FONT]
The thing is, looking for "the [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]common underlying faith off all mankind" is not in and of itself syncretic. A truly syncretic faith absorbs elements of belief/practice from various religions. While some of UUs do that (I do), others do not.[/FONT]
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
uufreespirit said:
I thought I needed to offer you that background info to explain why, when I decided to launch some online discussion groups for UU's, two of them were deliberately intended for the "sinking of our teeth into deeper issues"---such as the one covered here, in this thread. (Those groups are actually aimed at "UU-style evangelism" and all sorts of issues relating to UU growth, or lack thereof). Anyway, this is a conversation that I always welcome, as long as its tone is respectful and courteous.
Yeah, I had a similar idea a while back. Davidium and I tried to start a UU discussion forum that would allow us to talk about things that we might not feel comfortable talking about in a "public" forum. But it never quite got off the ground. *sigh* (The forums are pretty dead but you might find some interesting old discussions there: forums.wizdum.net)

The thing about RF is that there is a critical mass of UUs already here - not a lot of us but enough to have good discussions - and the culture is already such that people generally speak with respect. I was briefly on the UUA's uu theology listserve and was surprised by how nasty UUs can be to each other. When I realized that I was dishing back as much as I got, I had to leave. :eek:


uufreespirit said:
In one of those groups, I posed the question "Is there a liberal protocol" (in religion)? I suggested that yes, there is one: It goes largely unspoken and is not as "dogmatically carved as stone" as most orthodoxy faiths, of course...but it still does exist. It's a protocol composed mostly of shared attitudes and methodology--and is therefore defined mostly by adjectives more than nouns--but it's still real and substatial, and even carries with it certain (at least implied) mutual expectations.

One of our expectations of one another is that we at least will try to use our precious freedoms wisely...an expectation of discipline (self-imposed). This goes beyond the shallow belief that "we can believe anything we want to." We also expect from one another at least an attempt at being honest...at integrity, or continuity in our beliefs, and between our beliefs and the lives we live. (One pre-merger Unitarian minister even once contended that a "dishonest Unitarian is a contradiction in terms.) And, flowing from such a "true colors" approach to religion also (inevitably) comes honest admissions of our human limitations ...including limits to "what we really know" as "absolute Truth." (In other words, humility, tolerance and openness--qualities that are all-too-often lacking in the realm of religion--are actually hard-wired into our approach to religion.) So...to make a long story/essay/sermon short, I'd agree with those who feel that there is more to UU than a pluralistic collection of other faiths. What we have is our own distinctive tradition and legacy in religion that is every bit as hard-won, legitimate and valid as any of the others. It just seems to me that what we share together--as kindred spirits of liberal faith-- goes a little deeper than just a "pluralistic buffet" of religious beliefs and rituals. It asks a bit more of us than just to be there, in that lunch-line, at that cafeteria of freedom, reason and tolerance.

I'm not sure that I've articulated that very well, but maybe it makes sense. I'd certainly be interested in your own take on this!
Makes sense. :) You would have really liked Davidium. I miss him. :(
 
Top