Sola Fide

[Neo Deist]

For many Christians (mostly Protestants) salvation is determined by faith alone, not works (deeds). That type of salvation is known as sola fide. The concept is derived form Ephesians 2:8-9...

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

The problem is that many Christians cherry pick this verse and ignore what the rest of the Bible says, especially Revelation 20:12...

And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

And James 2:26...

For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

It would seem that it takes just more than a belief in order to pass judgment and make it to paradise. You must walk the walk, not just talk the talk. That's why you can't just do anything you want to as long as you are "saved." It would seem that the Catholics and Eastern Orthodox are right on this point, within the realm of Christianity.

 

[Desert Snake]

For many Christians (mostly Protestants) salvation is determined by faith alone, not works (deeds). That type of salvation is known as sola fide. The concept is derived form Ephesians 2:8-9...

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

The problem is that many Christians cherry pick this verse and ignore what the rest of the Bible says, especially Revelation 20:12...

And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

And James 2:26...

For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

It would seem that it takes just more than a belief in order to pass judgment and make it to paradise. You must walk the walk, not just talk the talk. That's why you can't just do anything you want to as long as you are "saved." It would seem that the Catholics and Eastern Orthodox are right on this point, within the realm of Christianity.

Any relevance to your Deism?

 

[Estro Felino]

Not to mention the Gospel of Matthew, when Jesus says clearly that angels shall come forth and sever the wicked from among the just. He doesn't say that the angels will separate the believers from the unbelievers.
So the concept of sola fide seems sterile and inconsistent. Protestants tend to say that faith produces automatically good works. That's not true: there have been examples of people who used to go to Mass on every Sunday, and then they would commit frauds and other awful sins secretly.
Besides...this concept is totally alien to Pelagianism, which is based upon solis operibus.

 

[Neo Deist]

Any relevance to your Deism?

My deism is complicated as I view myself as a Christian Deist. You'll have to go to the Deism DIR and look up my posts there that discuss it. In short, yes.

 

[Desert Snake]

My deism is complicated as I view myself as a Christian Deist. You'll have to go to the Deism DIR and look up my posts there that discuss it. In short, yes.

Ok

 

[Desert Snake]

For many Christians (mostly Protestants) salvation is determined by faith alone, not works (deeds). That type of salvation is known as sola fide. The concept is derived form Ephesians 2:8-9...

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

The problem is that many Christians cherry pick this verse and ignore what the rest of the Bible says, especially Revelation 20:12...

And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

And James 2:26...

For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

It would seem that it takes just more than a belief in order to pass judgment and make it to paradise. You must walk the walk, not just talk the talk. That's why you can't just do anything you want to as long as you are "saved." It would seem that the Catholics and Eastern Orthodox are right on this point, within the realm of Christianity.

How are you reconciling the seeming contradiction in those verses?

 

[Neo Deist]

How are you reconciling the seeming contradiction in those verses?

Easy. Protestants are wrong.

 

[buddhist]

For many Christians (mostly Protestants) salvation is determined by faith alone, not works (deeds). That type of salvation is known as sola fide. The concept is derived form Ephesians 2:8-9...

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

Easy. Protestants are wrong.

Or, there is far more conflict within Christianity than is commonly admitted. E.g. some believe James was writing against Paul, addressing the latter as a "vain man" in James 2:20:

"But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?"

The Greek for "faith" and "works" in this passage matches with the same words found in Eph 2:8-9.

 

[buddhist]

James 2:20
James 2:21
You need to read this in context
James is actually stating the opposite. James states that Abraham was not justified, by works, in verse 2:21

The English translation here is a tad //obscure, to get the meaning, granted, when read by itself

I disagree, I see James 2:21 as stating that Abraham was justified by works. It is a rhetorical question: "Wasn't Abraham justified by works?" The answer is "Yes, his works, plus his faith, perfected him - he wasn't perfected by faith only; Rahab was also justified by her works. " (James 2:22, 24)

 

[Desert Snake]

I disagree, I see James 2:21 as stating that Abraham was justified by works. It is a rhetorical question: "Wasn't Abraham justified by works?" The answer is "Yes, his works, plus his faith, perfected him - he wasn't perfected by faith only; Rahab was also justified by her works. " (James 2:22, 24)

*shrugs*
The wording is a tad obscure, but i'm not really interested enough to argue it.

 

[Desert Snake]

I default to the Tanach on this, actually.

 

[buddhist]

*shrugs*
The wording is a tad obscure, but i'm not really interested enough to argue it. could go either way probably

It's not obscure at all. The word "ou/k" in the Greek of James 2:21 makes it a rhetorical question, where the expected answer is definitively "Yes" (Abraham's works certainly justified him).

 

[Desert Snake]

It's not obscure at all. The word "ou/k" in the Greek of James 2:21 makes it a rhetorical question, where the expected answer is definitively "Yes" (Abraham's works certainly justified him).

Great. I default to the Tanach on this, actually.

 

[buddhist]

Great. I default to the Tanach on this, actually.

I'm not really interested in it enough to argue about it either ... I was just pointing out the likely internal bickering even among the leaders of the early faith.

 

[Burl]

Salvation, as far as I understand, is independent of both faith and works, depending entirely upon final unction and final professed acceptance of whatever creed one is plied with.

 

[Sleeppy]

Jesus offered the thief being crucified beside him, Paradise.

The problem here is, most people don't understand where faith originates.

 

[metis]

And remember the Parable of the Sheep & Goats in Matthew 25. The "goats" believed about Jesus but not in him (his message of compassion and justice). Paul himself deals with this when he says "... faith, hope and love, and the greatest of these is love", not faith.

 

[Desert Snake]

Salvation, as far as I understand, is independent of both faith and works, depending entirely upon final unction and final professed acceptance of whatever creed one is plied with.

According to who? Depends on which church, so forth. The RCC, until recently ,,, we're waiting for them to make up their minds lol, traditionally has it that one must actually be in the /Catholic church. This actually is presented on various threads, however there aren't that many catholics here.
Various protestant and other groups have different ideas about this.
I would say that traditionally, the''creed'' thing is usually very important, so is ''baptism''.

Now, i do not have a creed, nor am i baptized, so obviously i do not follow these ideas

 

[Burl]

According to my interpretation of events on Calvary. Who determines the tenets of Syncretism?

 

[Desert Snake]

According to my interpretation of events on Calvary. Who determines the tenets of Syncretism?

No one ''determines the tenets of Syncretism''. What a silly question.