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Solipsism?

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
scitsofreaky said:
Solipsim seems to be the epitome of a developed narcissimand egocentric world view. It is not infantile since it seems that infants cannot distinguish the rest of the world from themselves (so the ultimate egocentric world view), and this view does show the capacity to distingish the world from themselves physically. But it does seem to be low on the developmental level, like when a child thinks that when they walk the sun is following them, ergo they are indirectly moving the sun.
I wouldn't term it narcissistic or egocentric in the usual sense of the terms. The achievement of a state of consciousness in which one is incapable of perceiving diversity, where one is unaware of any discontinuity between Self and non-self is the ultimate spiritual goal of the "Eastern religions."

Most people, of course, are in 3rd state consciousness and unable to perceive Unity, Even the perennial philosophers [cf: philosophia perennis] must live in the world they perceive. Although they may acknowledge intellectually that they are dreaming the Universe, they are unable actually to perceive this in 3rd state, and are morally bound to live in the world they actually perceive -- a world replete with their moral peers.
 

scitsofreaky

Active Member
I wouldn't term it narcissistic or egocentric in the usual sense of the terms. The achievement of a state of consciousness in which one is incapable of perceiving diversity, where one is unaware of any discontinuity between Self and non-self is the ultimate spiritual goal of the "Eastern religions."
I think that there is a fundamental difference with "Eastern religions" and solpsism. It seems to me that the ultimate spiritual goal is to transcend self to Self(ie what you say is non-self, or the Self that is fully integrated). But with solipsism is not a transcendance but a denial of Self(as I use it). It is almost the opposite, while one is saying that everything is one, the other is saying there is only one and the rest is caused by this one.
Hmm, I'll try to put something together later to explain this better.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
scitsofreaky said:
I think that there is a fundamental difference with "Eastern religions" and solpsism. It seems to me that the ultimate spiritual goal is to transcend self to Self(ie what you say is non-self, or the Self that is fully integrated). But with solipsism is not a transcendance but a denial of Self(as I use it). It is almost the opposite, while one is saying that everything is one, the other is saying there is only one and the rest is caused by this one.
Hmm, I'll try to put something together later to explain this better.
Actually, I understood what you mean, and I agree.:)
 

scitsofreaky

Active Member
Human cognitive evolution goes through many stages. As we go through this evolution, we go from an egocentric world view in which we cannot separate ourselves physically from the rest of the world. This stage is generally short lived as a baby soon learns that while it hurts to bite its thumb, it does not hurt to bite a blanket. But after we are able to separate ourselves from the rest of the world, we are still unable to to realze that if we bite someone else it will hurt them. In other words, we cannot take on the perspective of another person. To me it seems that this is where solpsism is stuck.
Another way of viewing our evolution is that we go from archaic to mystic to magic and so on. I'll focus on the mystical and magical stages. In the mystical stage, one has develop an understanding of cause-effect relationship. But one is still egocentric, so it is believed that one is the ultimate cause. For example, when a child takes a walk, they think that the sun is moving, but more importantly they think that they are causing the sun to move by moving. So I think it is pretty obvious this is where I think solpsism is stuck, by its own defintion it is. But as one moves beyond the mystical world view, they move into the magical world view. In this space we do not believe that we are the ultimate cause of everything, but that others are (ie Dad, Mom, God, etc).
So we can see that as we evolve we are able to define ourselves as seperate from all other individuals and eventually we can attain the capacity to take on the perspective of others. But instead of becoming more egocentric we become less egocentric as we evolve because we have seperated ourselves from the rest of the world.
But doesn't this seem to lead only to self and not Self? Yes and no. It can if our evolution becomes stagnant. But if we continue to grow, we can see that the Kosmos (not cosmos, but Kosmos which includes everything not just the physical) is a giant holarchy. We are each holons, or part/wholes. We are each wholes of all holons below us (physically, for example, we are made up of organs, which are made of tissue, which are made of cells, which are made of molecules, and so on), and we are part of the holons above us. So as we define our self, we realize that we are just defining part of Self, and that this Self is made of countless holons.
 

Maxist

Active Member
I myself have done extensive studies on the subjectof Solipsism; and have come to the conclusion that it is simply anothe way ofkeeping pious people in line. The one who created it did not really beleive it. But when one way does not keep the people in line another way will. It is just a creative Bhuddism.
 
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