Solutions to the Fermi Paradox

[an anarchist]

The Fermi Paradox is the thought that there is a high likelihood of extraterrestrial existence, yet there is no evidence for any.

What are your solutions to this paradox? I have this in Science and Religion because I'm interested in religious takes as well as scientific ones.

The idea that trips me out the most is that we are perhaps the first advanced species in the universe. The first. Well, some species has to be the first. Maybe it's actually us. What a grand and most unique opportunity this offers humanity.

Another theory I heard was that advanced alien civilizations know to stay in the dark, for fear of being wiped out by other civilizations.

What do you think?

 

[Heyo]

The Fermi Paradox is the thought that there is a high likelihood of extraterrestrial existence, yet there is no evidence for any.

What are your solutions to this paradox? I have this in Science and Religion because I'm interested in religious takes as well as scientific ones.

The idea that trips me out the most is that we are perhaps the first advanced species in the universe. The first. Well, some species has to be the first. Maybe it's actually us. What a grand and most unique opportunity this offers humanity.

Another theory I heard was that advanced alien civilizations know to stay in the dark, for fear of being wiped out by other civilizations.

What do you think?

I like the Zoo Hypothesis. Not because it is the most likely, far from that; but it is the most hopeful and encouraging. We "just" need to rise to a moral and technological standard to be eventually let out of the zoo.

Realistically speaking, we know so very little that it is pure speculation to speak of any solutions. We are not even able to detect a civilization that is on our level of the Kardashev scale. There could be millions of intelligent species out there and we wouldn't know. There could be even more advanced species who just didn't follow the Kardashev scale. You don't have to build Dyson spheres, that's just an assumption (though a most reasonable one).

If you like to know more, I recommend the videos by Isaac Arthur. Here's his series just about the Fermi Paradox:

 

[exchemist]

The Fermi Paradox is the thought that there is a high likelihood of extraterrestrial existence, yet there is no evidence for any.

What are your solutions to this paradox? I have this in Science and Religion because I'm interested in religious takes as well as scientific ones.

The idea that trips me out the most is that we are perhaps the first advanced species in the universe. The first. Well, some species has to be the first. Maybe it's actually us. What a grand and most unique opportunity this offers humanity.

Another theory I heard was that advanced alien civilizations know to stay in the dark, for fear of being wiped out by other civilizations.

What do you think?

Douglas Adams has provided the answer to this. "In space travel, the numbers are awful."

If c really is an ultimate speed limit, there would be no point at all in trying to visit other worlds. Furthermore the same awful numbers would mean that beaming an EM signal to other habitable worlds would be a fruitless exercise. Even if the signal were detected, after spreading out over millions of years, a reply would take the same time. You might have evolved tentacles and 6 new eyes by the time it came back.

 

[Mock Turtle]

The Fermi Paradox is the thought that there is a high likelihood of extraterrestrial existence, yet there is no evidence for any.

What are your solutions to this paradox? I have this in Science and Religion because I'm interested in religious takes as well as scientific ones.

The idea that trips me out the most is that we are perhaps the first advanced species in the universe. The first. Well, some species has to be the first. Maybe it's actually us. What a grand and most unique opportunity this offers humanity.

Another theory I heard was that advanced alien civilizations know to stay in the dark, for fear of being wiped out by other civilizations.

What do you think?

This, from an article in 2022:

It’s nearly 2023, why haven’t we made contact with aliens yet? One answer could be that we’re not technologically advanced enough to merit attention. That’s according to a new preprint paper (meaning it’s not been peer-reviewed) published to the arXiv database. Put simply, if Earth has only been pumping radio waves out to the cosmos since the 1930’s (and only seriously since the 70s’), there’s very little chance we’ll land on the radar screens of an advanced alien race. The study’s author, Amri Wandel – an astrophysicist at The Hebrew University of Jerusalem – is suggesting this as another possible answer to the Fermi Paradox. The paradox looks at the contradiction between the high probability of existence of alien civilisations and the overwhelming lack of evidence we’ve found since starting to scan the stars. But, to put things in perspective – the signals we’ve been sending out have probably only hit something in the region of 15,000 stars. A tiny fraction of the 400 billion that exist in the Milky Way.

There is a missing 'alone' at the end of that article. And this to me seems the more likely explanation as to why we probably haven't been visited, apart from the 'hands off' approach being another likely one, given the state of our human existence. But this latter is the less likely of the two. And I very much doubt we are the first intelligent species.

 

[excreationist]

Exoplanet - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

it can be hypothesized that there are 11 billion potentially habitable Earth-sized planets in the Milky Way

I believe I'm probably in a simulation/video game and my explanation for the apparent absence of aliens is to keep the costs of the video game (like "The Roy game") low.
Approximating a typical distant star that seems to have 10^57 atoms (1 with 57 zeroes) to a viewer would require a lot less resources than simulating an alien home planet even though the star involves a lot more apparent atoms.

 

[ChristineM]

What are your solutions to this paradox?

The universe is big, with billions of galaxies and trillions of stars. A very high proportion of those stars appear to have solar aystems and small percentage of those solar systems have planets that appear to be suitable for life.

So if there is no life out there except our own the the universe is a gigantic waste of space.

As to why there is no evidence of life, the speed limit makes most planets out of reach of not only travel but radio signals too.

By radio signals i mean coherent signals that stand out from the background buzz.

There have been tantalising bits of signal though.

Wow! signal - Wikipedia

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....4/world/exoplanet-radio-signal-scn/index.html

Thousands of ‘alien’ space radio signals reach Earth: ‘Not just a coincidence’

Maybe, maybe not

 

[excreationist]

So if there is no life out there except our own the the universe is a gigantic waste of space.

A Christian might say that it makes our tiny little planet a lot more special. Also the earth-like planets could be colonised by future beings originating from earth...

As to why there is no evidence of life, the speed limit makes most planets out of reach of not only travel but radio signals too.

The Milky Way is only about 100,000 light years across.... but there could be 11 billion potentially habitable Earth-sized planets

 

[exchemist]

Exoplanet - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I believe I'm probably in a simulation/video game and my explanation for the apparent absence of aliens is to keep the costs of the video game (like "The Roy game") low.
Approximating a typical distant star that seems to have 10^57 atoms (1 with 57 zeroes) to a viewer would require a lot less resources than simulating an alien home planet even though the star involves a lot more apparent atoms.

I've never understood this "simulation" malarkey. Surely if you think that, it demands the question: Simulated by who, or what, and to what end? How is this different from a belief in God?

 

[Brickjectivity]

The Fermi Paradox is the thought that there is a high likelihood of extraterrestrial existence, yet there is no evidence for any.

What are your solutions to this paradox? I have this in Science and Religion because I'm interested in religious takes as well as scientific ones.

The idea that trips me out the most is that we are perhaps the first advanced species in the universe. The first. Well, some species has to be the first. Maybe it's actually us. What a grand and most unique opportunity this offers humanity.

Another theory I heard was that advanced alien civilizations know to stay in the dark, for fear of being wiped out by other civilizations.

What do you think?

I theorize that societies themselves have entropy. Part of humanity's entropy is Entertainment. We love to be entertained, so for much of the time we would rather watch than do. Now that knowledge of rockets is common most anyone can reach space, but few people ever try. We are entertained with other things.

Social entropy means that societies fall into patterns. They harden like a glue into a distinct way of doing things that only varies. Success causes change to stop. It happens with humans, animals, insects and every social creature I can think of including fungi. Why would creatures on other planets be different? Based on the assumption that they also are creatures that must efficiently use energy it is fair I think to assume they are the same. As their success increases, it will slow their rate of change. The nearer they get to space, the less interested in it they will become.

 

[excreationist]

I've never understood this "simulation" malarkey. Surely if you think that, it demands the question: Simulated by who, or what, and to what end?

One scenario I'm fond of is "The Roy Game"

I also interpret Alan Watts' dream thought experiment as applying to a simulation that begins in a kind of "god mode"

1.2.3. - Mythology of Hinduism - Pt. 1

I wonder, I wonder, what you would do if you had the power to dream at night, any dream you wanted to dream. And you would of course be able to alter your time-sense and slip, say seventy-five years of subjective time into eight hours of sleep. You would, I suppose, start out by []

web.archive.org

In those scenarios the player would pay to play those video games so therefore it would have a limited budget.
The purpose in those scenarios could be entertainment and personal growth.

How is this different from a belief in God?

I do believe in a kind of god though I think it wants to not be obvious similar to how statistical analysis can be used to hide the true nature of things

A related quote from Futurama:

GOD: Bender, being God isn't easy. If you do too much, people get dependent on you. And if you do nothing, they lose hope. You have to use a light touch like a safecracker or a pickpocket.

BENDER: Or a guy who burns down the bar for the insurance money.

GOD: Yes, if you make it look like an electrical thing. When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.

 

[exchemist]

One scenario I'm fond of is "The Roy Game"

I also interpret Alan Watts' dream thought experiment as applying to a simulation that begins in a kind of "god mode"

1.2.3. - Mythology of Hinduism - Pt. 1

I wonder, I wonder, what you would do if you had the power to dream at night, any dream you wanted to dream. And you would of course be able to alter your time-sense and slip, say seventy-five years of subjective time into eight hours of sleep. You would, I suppose, start out by []

web.archive.org

In those scenarios the player would pay to play those video games so therefore it would have a limited budget.
The purpose in those scenarios could be entertainment and personal growth.

I do believe in a kind of god though I think it wants to not be obvious similar to how statistical analysis can be used to hide the true nature of things

A related quote from Futurama:

So you believe in a God that has set this world up as a simulation, do you?

 

[anna.]

I've never understood this "simulation" malarkey. Surely if you think that, it demands the question: Simulated by who, or what, and to what end?

I know! I know!

 

[ChristineM]

A Christian might say that it makes our tiny little planet a lot more special. Also the earth-like planets could be colonised by future beings originating from earth...

Fortunately it's not Christian ego making the determination but a cosmology based on observation and knowledge .

I think it's doubtful that other planets (outside our solar system) will be colonised by future beings originating from earth. The distance being the problem to that idea.

The Milky Way is only about 100,000 light years across.... but there could be 11 billion potentially habitable Earth-sized planets

Only? 100,000 light years is a bit more than a stroll to the local shop.
11 billion habitable planets in our galaxy is a little far fetched, the reanalysis of keplar data does estimate between 300 million and possibly up to 6 billion.

 

[excreationist]

Fortunately it's not Christian ego making the determination but a cosmology based on observation and knowledge .

It seems saying "if there is no life out there except our own the the universe is a gigantic waste of space" implies that there is an intelligence that has the choice of using or wasting the space.

I think it's doubtful that other planets (outside our solar system) will be colonised by future beings originating from earth. The distance being the problem to that idea.

I think future beings could be around at least a few million years. A planet about 4.25 light years away could have a lot of liquid water:

Our Closest Earthlike Planet Appears to Be "Covered" in Water

Back in August, astronomers announced the discovery of what appears to be an Earthlike exoplanet orbiting Proxima Centauri - a red dwarf star in our closest neighbouring star system, Alpha Centauri.

www.sciencealert.com

Only? 100,000 light years is a bit more than a stroll to the local shop.

Well apparently homo sapiens have been around about 200,000 years. BTW apparently faster than light travel is theoretically possible:

Warp drives: Physicists give chances of faster-than-light space travel a boost

If humanity ever wants to travel easily between stars, people will need to go faster than light.

www.space.com

11 billion habitable planets in our galaxy is a little far fetched, the reanalysis of keplar data does estimate between 300 million and possibly up to 6 billion.

The point is that there are a lot of them. 300 million is still a lot.

 

[excreationist]

So you believe in a God that has set this world up as a simulation, do you?

In the Roy game scenario I wouldn't consider the game developers to be "gods".... though if they intervened while Morty was playing they would be capable of having god-like abilities... but I believe that this kind of intervention can't be done in an obvious way in my own life.

 

[Heyo]

In the Roy game scenario I wouldn't consider the game developers to be "gods".... though if they intervened while Morty was playing they would be capable of having god-like abilities... but I believe that this kind of intervention can't be done in an obvious way in my own life.

I think the programmers are more god-like if they don't intervene. Or at least more like the gods people believe in. I asked that question some time ago: Are the Programmers Gods?

 

[excreationist]

I think the programmers are more god-like if they don't intervene. Or at least more like the gods people believe in. I asked that question some time ago: Are the Programmers Gods?

If the Bible is taken literally it seems to be full of divine intervention... and that is what a large number of theists believe. You seem to be talking about deists. Thanks for the link.

 

[Heyo]

If the Bible is taken literally it seems to be full of divine intervention... and that is what a large number of theists believe. You seem to be talking about deists. Thanks for the link.

Divine intervention is believed. You can do that in a game or a simulation also.
In reality there is no evidence for any intervention.

 

[excreationist]

Divine intervention is believed. You can do that in a game or a simulation also.
In reality there is no evidence for any intervention.

Creationists would say that there is undeniable evidence for a world-wide flood. And that this flood wasn't a purely naturalistic process. Christian apologists also say that the disciples dying for their faith proves that they experienced a risen Christ, etc. So I'm sure many would disagree with you saying there is "no evidence". BTW I think ALL evidence of God and the paranormal can be explained by skeptics as coincidence, delusion, hallucinations, or fraud and that's what the possible intelligent force intends.

 

[syo]

The idea that trips me out the most is that we are perhaps the first advanced species in the universe.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA