Some honest critiques of the Men's Rights Movement

[Riverwolf]

Why not just meet in the middle and try to achieve rights for all regardless of gender.

That's feminism. ^_^

 

[Riverwolf]

Just as feminism is more than just bra burning & special privileges,

Feminism is neither of those things.

 

[dgirl1986]

That's feminism. ^_^

I think it was to start with.

 

[Revoltingest]

Feminism is neither of those things.

It once was though. (Perhaps you're to young to remember bra burnings.) The special privilege aspect though does crop up regularly, eg, affirmative action advocacy, reduced job requirements for physically demanding jobs. My point was that it is as wrong to characterize the MRM with fringe descriptions as it is to describe feminism with similarly inaccurate descriptions.

 

[Riverwolf]

I think it was to start with.

And still is.

 

[Riverwolf]

My point was that it is as wrong to characterize the MRM with fringe descriptions as it is to describe feminism with similarly inaccurate descriptions.

I see. Carry on, then.

 

[dgirl1986]

And still is.

Maybe a part of it is but most that I see especially online seems to be anti men

 

[Riverwolf]

Maybe a part of it is but most that I see especially online seems to be anti men

I rarely see it (and even when I do it's pretty much always a strawman), but I never "seek out" feminists; rather, the personalities I follow will either label themselves as feminist or not, and even those who deny themselves as feminists will nearly 100% of the time have the exact same views as those who identify as feminists (assuming they have a definite stance at all.)

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Thread resurrection yay....

A few of my honest critiques of MRMs...

1) Save for a few attornies who specifically represent men in divorce and child custody cases (as well as offer counsel or workshops on fathers rights), I don't see actual political and social activism from MRMs. I don't see the groups setting up shelters for male domestic abuse survivors, nor support groups for male victims of false rape accusations. Instead, what I see are "shame" or "wanted" posters of known feminists as well as finding these women's addresses, phone numbers, email addresses, and to send threats of rape, assault, or death.

I'd like to see more actual support for men, rather than spending so much time on a counterattack against feminists and women.

2) Transphobia and homophobia are still visible in MRMs. Feminism has pockets of transphobia, homophobia, and biphobia in its various movements (which I am also critical of as well), but I see a large sweeping dismissal of men's issues when they are presented from trans men and gay men.

3) Statistics are brought up about how men are more often killed in war, die of heart disease, are likelier to be diagnosed with learning disabilities....but I don't see MRM activism specifically toward reducing military involvement, battling heart disease, or campaigning for channeling funds toward earlier diagnoses and treatment of learning disabilities. I'd like to be able to support these types of movements and raise awareness of how MRAs are making differences with these issues, but I see the road leading toward growing hostility against feminism and women because we're not taking action enough in these areas.

In short, I think the legal recourse for custody issues are a start, and I think MRAs have better chances by focusing more on what they can do for men when they're disadvantaged or marginalized.

 

[Alceste]

Thread resurrection yay....

A few of my honest critiques of MRMs...

1) Save for a few attornies who specifically represent men in divorce and child custody cases (as well as offer counsel or workshops on fathers rights), I don't see actual political and social activism from MRMs. I don't see the groups setting up shelters for male domestic abuse survivors, nor support groups for male victims of false rape accusations. Instead, what I see are "shame" or "wanted" posters of known feminists as well as finding these women's addresses, phone numbers, email addresses, and to send threats of rape, assault, or death.

I'd like to see more actual support for men, rather than spending so much time on a counterattack against feminists and women.

2) Transphobia and homophobia are still visible in MRMs. Feminism has pockets of transphobia, homophobia, and biphobia in its various movements (which I am also critical of as well), but I see a large sweeping dismissal of men's issues when they are presented from trans men and gay men.

3) Statistics are brought up about how men are more often killed in war, die of heart disease, are likelier to be diagnosed with learning disabilities....but I don't see MRM activism specifically toward reducing military involvement, battling heart disease, or campaigning for channeling funds toward earlier diagnoses and treatment of learning disabilities. I'd like to be able to support these types of movements and raise awareness of how MRAs are making differences with these issues, but I see the road leading toward growing hostility against feminism and women because we're not taking action enough in these areas.

In short, I think the legal recourse for custody issues are a start, and I think MRAs have better chances by focusing more on what they can do for men when they're disadvantaged or marginalized.

I agree with all of this.

 

[Apex]

Thread resurrection yay....

A few of my honest critiques of MRMs...

1) Save for a few attornies who specifically represent men in divorce and child custody cases (as well as offer counsel or workshops on fathers rights), I don't see actual political and social activism from MRMs. I don't see the groups setting up shelters for male domestic abuse survivors, nor support groups for male victims of false rape accusations. Instead, what I see are "shame" or "wanted" posters of known feminists as well as finding these women's addresses, phone numbers, email addresses, and to send threats of rape, assault, or death.

I'd like to see more actual support for men, rather than spending so much time on a counterattack against feminists and women.

2) Transphobia and homophobia are still visible in MRMs. Feminism has pockets of transphobia, homophobia, and biphobia in its various movements (which I am also critical of as well), but I see a large sweeping dismissal of men's issues when they are presented from trans men and gay men.

3) Statistics are brought up about how men are more often killed in war, die of heart disease, are likelier to be diagnosed with learning disabilities....but I don't see MRM activism specifically toward reducing military involvement, battling heart disease, or campaigning for channeling funds toward earlier diagnoses and treatment of learning disabilities. I'd like to be able to support these types of movements and raise awareness of how MRAs are making differences with these issues, but I see the road leading toward growing hostility against feminism and women because we're not taking action enough in these areas.

In short, I think the legal recourse for custody issues are a start, and I think MRAs have better chances by focusing more on what they can do for men when they're disadvantaged or marginalized.

Isn't it nice to be able to post criticisms of the MRM in the applicable forum even though you are not a member yourself?

 

[Revoltingest]

Feminism is neither of those things.

I'm addressing how a movement will have a common perception which doesn't represent what it really
is. What hasn't been regularly misrepresented here....feminism, MRM, Dems, Pubs, Libs, etc?
People describe things not as they are, but as they're perceived thru a distorted personal lens.

 

[Revoltingest]

Thread resurrection yay....
A few of my honest critiques of MRMs...
1) Save for a few attornies who specifically represent men in divorce and child custody cases (as well as offer counsel or workshops on fathers rights), I don't see actual political and social activism from MRMs. I don't see the groups setting up shelters for male domestic abuse survivors, nor support groups for male victims of false rape accusations. Instead, what I see are "shame" or "wanted" posters of known feminists as well as finding these women's addresses, phone numbers, email addresses, and to send threats of rape, assault, or death.
I'd like to see more actual support for men, rather than spending so much time on a counterattack against feminists and women.
2) Transphobia and homophobia are still visible in MRMs. Feminism has pockets of transphobia, homophobia, and biphobia in its various movements (which I am also critical of as well), but I see a large sweeping dismissal of men's issues when they are presented from trans men and gay men.
3) Statistics are brought up about how men are more often killed in war, die of heart disease, are likelier to be diagnosed with learning disabilities....but I don't see MRM activism specifically toward reducing military involvement, battling heart disease, or campaigning for channeling funds toward earlier diagnoses and treatment of learning disabilities. I'd like to be able to support these types of movements and raise awareness of how MRAs are making differences with these issues, but I see the road leading toward growing hostility against feminism and women because we're not taking action enough in these areas.
In short, I think the legal recourse for custody issues are a start, and I think MRAs have better chances by focusing more on what they can do for men when they're disadvantaged or marginalized.

What you see isn't really a problem, it's just that the MRM is diffuse & unorganized (much more
so than feminism). For example, I take political action against war & the draft because I'm a
libertarian (capital "L" too), not because I belong to any "men's" group. I actually prefer it this way.

 

[Revoltingest]

Isn't it nice to be able to post criticisms of the MRM in the applicable forum even though you are not a member yourself?

Our voting to be a green forum is a wise decision. I think of the feminist counterpart, & wonder
why even check in on their discussions. It's uninteresting when one cannot participate at all.
Moreover, before it was purple I did converse there. Then when it changed, I quickly & explicitly
got the boot.

 

[Alceste]

Isn't it nice to be able to post criticisms of the MRM in the applicable forum even though you are not a member yourself?

I think both Heather and I support the segment of the MRM that seeks equal treatment in custody, rape and domestic violence cases, while rejecting the segment that seeks greater permisiveness regarding the rape of women and reactionary feminist-bashing.

Feminism and MRM, to the extent that both seek to end gender discrimination, are natural allies.

We don't all agree on every issue in the feminism DIR either.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Isn't it nice to be able to post criticisms of the MRM in the applicable forum even though you are not a member yourself?

Of course.

And, let it be known, I don't think MRMs are hateful and bigoted as a movement overall, and I don't look to derail conversations about mens rights by saying to other MRA's, "See? THIS is why nobody likes MRAs, and if you really cared, you'd educate me and stop being so hateful!!"

Back at ya.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

What you see isn't really a problem, it's just that the MRM is diffuse & unorganized (much more
so than feminism). For example, I take political action against war & the draft because I'm a
libertarian (capital "L" too), not because I belong to any "men's" group. I actually prefer it this way.

Not so much a problem, but as somebody who is looking to support any causes MRAs have, it would be good if there was organization and a direction.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Our voting to be a green forum is a wise decision. I think of the feminist counterpart, & wonder
why even check in on their discussions. It's uninteresting when one cannot participate at all.
Moreover, before it was purple I did converse there. Then when it changed, I quickly & explicitly
got the boot.

I often times will post feminist topics in the open forums. We're all welcome to continue to do that, FYI.

Again, the reasoning for having a purple DIR is that too often the topic will be derailed into the angry-male-bashing-feminist-stereotype, or if feminism is even needed at all, instead of actually talking about the topic at hand (wage gap, rape culture, women representation, etc.).

I see it in the open forums, which is fine. Feminists actually wanted to talk about these things without having 400 pages of derailment tactics. It's worked out just fine for us. For critics of feminism, feel free to start a thread in the open forums.

Just not here, since feminists are also not to bash MRAs in the purple DIR.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I think both Heather and I support the segment of the MRM that seeks equal treatment in custody, rape and domestic violence cases, while rejecting the segment that seeks greater permisiveness regarding the rape of women and reactionary feminist-bashing.

Feminism and MRM, to the extent that both seek to end gender discrimination, are natural allies.

We don't all agree on every issue in the feminism DIR either.

Exactly. :yes:

 

[Debater Slayer]

I often times will post feminist topics in the open forums. We're all welcome to continue to do that, FYI.

Again, the reasoning for having a purple DIR is that too often the topic will be derailed into the angry-male-bashing-feminist-stereotype, or if feminism is even needed at all, instead of actually talking about the topic at hand (wage gap, rape culture, women representation, etc.).

I see it in the open forums, which is fine. Feminists actually wanted to talk about these things without having 400 pages of derailment tactics. It's worked out just fine for us. For critics of feminism, feel free to start a thread in the open forums.

Just not here, since feminists are also not to bash MRAs in the purple DIR.

This. To the power of thousand.