Some honest critiques of the Men's Rights Movement

[MysticSang'ha]

You're welcome.

It doesn't say much if that's the only example I know of and he's such a hateful person with very bizarre views.

At first glance, I think "Androphilia, A Manifesto" offers gay men the avenue of embracing their masculinity in a way that doesn't fit into the effeminate stereotype. Or at least it looks like that's the intent of the work.

I'm interested in reading through it. It very well might be identical to "The Spearhead" site rhetoric, but I'm curious enough as it is.

 

[Riverwolf]

I don't think thats what they are concerned about. It is possible that they don't perceive them as needing their immediate support, as LGBT activist groups are plentiful as it is.

Does LGBT activist groups address the issues of ordinary men? Of course not. Its not their purpose why should MRM address theirs? There doesn't seem to be much point in extending the focus outside the group's main objective. I think thats the reason.

At the same time, there's already a lot of overlap between the various egalitarian movements. Personally, I think that should be embraced.

I don't think there's anything wrong with having a specific issue to focus on, and addressing the various other issues that overlap with it.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

At first glance, I think "Androphilia, A Manifesto" offers gay men the avenue of embracing their masculinity in a way that doesn't fit into the effeminate stereotype. Or at least it looks like that's the intent of the work.

I'm interested in reading through it. It very well might be identical to "The Spearhead" site rhetoric, but I'm curious enough as it is.

Yeah, it sounds "nice" at first glance. But it's actually coming a standpoint of shaming males who do not live up to the "macho" idea of masculinity. Basically, Donovan believes that men have been "sissified" by culture and need to return to a brutal, warrior based way of living by forming tribes.

He is really a far right-winger who despises left-wing politics and activism. He has ties to white power groups. He's basically a neo-fascist. He vomits up the same anti-trans, anti-feminist and sexist claptrap that you would expect from a right-winger.

But you asked and he's the only significant queer that I know of that's part of that movement.

 

[Alceste]

I don't think thats what they are concerned about. It is possible that they don't perceive them as needing their immediate support, as LGBT activist groups are plentiful as it is.

Does LGBT activist groups address the issues of ordinary men? Of course not. Its not their purpose why should MRM address theirs? There doesn't seem to be much point in extending the focus outside the group's main objective. I think thats the reason.

MRMs should be engaged in the issues of gay / Trans / queer men because they are men, and they are oppressed in various ways. Is it not called a "Men's Rights Movement"?

Many feminists are engaged in trans / lesbian / queer activism. If you identify as a woman and you're oppressed or bullied, you can easily find a feminist group somewhere on the world that is trying to help. Granted, you will also find other groups who are hostile to MTF transgendered people in particular, but that sentiment it's far from universal.

 

[fschmidt]

Unfortunately, in using equality as a starting point, the MRM has attempted to cast men as a weak and entitled creature who is at the mercy of feminists. In being too open to "compromise" and working within a system that's rigged from the beginning, the MRM is already at a lot. Modern feminism and the MRA are both based on victimhood. True strength lies in indifference and the development of it's quality through avenues that are noble, not popular and simplistic.

What are your thoughts?

I agree 100%. The MRM is very much part of modern culture and modern culture is fundamentally an decadent immoral liberal feminist cesspool. Decent men should take no part in modern culture and should instead join a sane patriarchal religion like Islam or ultra-Orthodox Judaism. Any culture that assigns women power over men, as women's suffrage does, is doomed.

 

[dust1n]

Hey, another supposed MRA topic that slowly degrades into feminism bashing. What an obvious surprise.

On a serious note, from an MRA perspective, I consider men who complain about a cabal of women or a random woman they randomly encountered and chose to be with of their own free will to be most emasculating form of manliness possible. No one would watch a John Wayne movie if he spent the majority of his time complaining about the people around them like a teenager.

MRM has yet to reach the level of cultural relevancy as that of Shrinky Dinks.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I agree 100%. The MRM is very much part of modern culture and modern culture is fundamentally an decadent immoral liberal feminist cesspool. Decent men should take no part in modern culture and should instead join a sane patriarchal religion like Islam or ultra-Orthodox Judaism. Any culture that assigns women power over men, as women's suffrage does, is doomed.

What the hell. You must be posting from the Twilight Zone.

 

[Revoltingest]

Hey, another supposed MRA topic that slowly degrades into feminism bashing. What an obvious surprise.

The 2 camps appear to be often at war with each other. But at least the MRAs allow outside criticism, unlike feminists.

MRM has yet to reach the level of cultural relevancy as that of Shrinky Dinks.

Typical feminist....always in bash mode towards seen as outsiders. Both sides should be less antagonistic & prickly. Hell, they shouldn't even be different sides.

 

[fschmidt]

What the hell. You must be posting from the Twilight Zone.

I would like to move to the Twilight Zone, but unfortunately I am stuck in the same world as you are.

By the way, if you are a Germanic Heathen Polytheist / Animist, then I recommend reading this:

 

[dust1n]

The 2 camps appear to be often at war with each other. But at least the MRAs allow outside criticism, unlike feminists.

Is that another issue the MRA culture is latching onto, still being hung up about a creation of a subforum for 2 years?

Typical feminist....always in bash mode towards seen as outsiders.

It's not my fault MRM is as relevant as the three mass shootings for which its commonly associated with.

By the way, I don't really consider myself a feminist anymore. I rather be neutral because I find it a much more necessary goal to put down whiny boys in the lingo that they themselves use. I'm not worry about feminism. It'll be around either way. What I would like to see is a sharp reduction in males complaining about dumb things. If you're going to be a man, at least complain about something manly. Welcome to the patriarchy.

 

[Revoltingest]

Is that another issue the MRA culture is lashing onto, still being hung up about a creation of a subforum for 2 years?

"Lashing"? This is unclear.

It's not my fault MRM is as relevant as the three mass shootings for which its commonly associated with.

Do I see the passive voice used to avoid saying who is doing the mischievous association? Trickery, trickery, trickery! I doubt very much that anyone here favors shooting others....self defense being an exception, of course.

By the way, I don't really consider myself a feminist anymore. I rather be neutral because I find it a much more necessary goal to put down whiny boys in the lingo that they themselves use. I'm not worry about feminism. It'll be around either way. What I would like to see is a sharp reduction in males complaining about dumb things. If you're going to be a man, at least complain about something manly. Welcome to the patriarchy.

If your conversion to non-feminist is solely to post critical messages here, then I'll advise that there's no need. Even before the new system removed the forum's green status, non-MRAs were (& still are) allowed to post here without restriction. We're a tolerant bunch.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I would like to move to the Twilight Zone, but unfortunately I am stuck in the same world as you are.

By the way, if you are a Germanic Heathen Polytheist / Animist, then I recommend reading this:

Reading what? It's not showing up for me.

 

[fschmidt]

Reading what? It's not showing up for me.

Maybe your browser is broken. I linked to the book:

Odinism In The Age Of Man: The Dark Age Before the Return of Our Gods
by Wyatt Kaldenberg

 

[dust1n]

"Lashing"? This is unclear.

Fixed.

Do I see the passive voice used to avoid saying who is doing the mischievous association? Trickery, trickery, trickery! I doubt very much that anyone here favors shooting others....self defense being an exception, of course.

Nah, we don't have to worry about that. Real men don't hang out on religious forums.

If your conversion to non-feminist is solely to post critical messages here, then I'll advise that there's no need. Even before the new system removed the forum's green status, non-MRAs were (& still are) allowed to post here without restriction. We're a tolerant bunch.

I've switched to a new form of masculinity. I call it getting over one self and moving on with their lives and achieving whatever it is they are hoping to do without complaining about what others are doing.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Maybe your browser is broken. I linked to the book:

Odinism In The Age Of Man: The Dark Age Before the Return of Our Gods
by Wyatt Kaldenberg

Although I can agree with him that returning to pre-Christian indigenous folkways can be a great solution to the perils that modern humans find themselves in, that's about all I can agree with him on. I'm not interested in racist, homophobic and sexist cranks who pervert indigenous beliefs for their own agenda. He can go fly a kite.

 

[Revoltingest]

Fixed.

The existence of the forum hasn't been a problem. Why invent the complaint?

I've switched to a new form of masculinity. I call it getting over one self and moving on with their lives and achieving whatever it is they are hoping to do without complaining about what others are doing.

Sounds like a good plan! Might you be one of those "egalitarians"?
Anyway, this forum is about issues affecting men, not just MRA stuff. I don't even identify as one, because like feminism, it's too narrowly focused.

 

[fschmidt]

Although I can agree with him that returning to pre-Christian indigenous folkways can be a great solution to the perils that modern humans find themselves in, that's about all I can agree with him on. I'm not interested in racist, homophobic and sexist cranks who pervert indigenous beliefs for their own agenda. He can go fly a kite.

Did you read his book or are you a typical member of modern culture who jumps to conclusions without knowing what they are talking about? I don't remember him being racist or homophobic. Of course every sane person is sexist because the sexes are different.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Did you read his book or are you a typical member of modern culture who jumps to conclusions without knowing what they are talking about? I don't remember him being racist or homophobic. Of course every sane person is sexist because the sexes are different.

I know how to use Google and find out information about people. His theology is crap, too. There's a reason why I'm automatically wary of anyone calling themselves an "Odinist". They're usually racists with screwed up theology. What's even more funny is that he thinks he has the only correct view on it and everyone who bases their practices on historical evidence are wrong. What an idiot.

Sexism isn't merely recognizing differences between the sexes.

 

[fschmidt]

I know how to use Google and find out information about people. His theology is crap, too. There's a reason why I'm automatically wary of anyone calling themselves an "Odinist". They're usually racists with screwed up theology. What's even more funny is that he thinks he has the only correct view on it and everyone who bases their practices on historical evidence are wrong. What an idiot.

How about providing links to back up your view. I read the book and liked it. And I am anti-racist and not homophobic. And I am not pagan, I follow the Old Testament.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

How about providing links to back up your view. I read the book and liked it. And I am anti-racist and not homophobic. And I am not pagan, I follow the Old Testament.

Haven't you read any interviews with him? The guy may not be a white supremacist, but he is a racial nationalist.

However, I might read the book if I can find it somewhere. The things I agree with him about I already know about, anyway.