Some people are preordained to be destroyed by fire on the day of judgement (Revelation 13:8).

[XIII-Legion]

Revelation 13:8 - and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

So what do you think of this passage?

Do you agree this passage is clear, unequivocal and self-evident to the reader: Certain individuals are preordained to be destroyed by fire on the day of judgement?

 

[s2a]

Revelation 13:8 - and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

So what do you think of this passage?

Do you agree this passage is clear, unequivocal and self-evident to the reader: Certain individuals are preordained to be destroyed by fire on the day of judgement?

Yep. Clear.

Believable?

Well....

...have some ice cubes and a fire suit on me.

 

[outhouse]

Im bringing marsh mellows and a stick

 

[sun rise]

There is very little in the Bible that I take as self-evident etc and that includes this passage. Much of the Bible is only understandable metaphorically.

And to take one part of out context is often suboptimal as in this case. After all look at the start of Rev 13: And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Outside of Godzilla, perhaps, I don't expect such a literal event to occur. So why should I take that one part of Rev 13 literally.

 

[Nadia Faiazova]

Only because of person's unrepentent attitude she deserves death without resurrection.

 

[sojourner]

Only because of person's unrepentent attitude she deserves death without resurrection.

Unfortunately for you, Xy isn't about "deserve." It's about "grace."

 

[savagewind]

Revelation 13:8 - and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

So what do you think of this passage?

Do you agree this passage is clear, unequivocal and self-evident to the reader: Certain individuals are preordained to be destroyed by fire on the day of judgement?

It makes no sense that it means predestination because it says ALL who dwell on the earth will worship it and ALL those who worship it cannot be found in God's book of life. So, everyone is all and none of us are in the book. Who is not predestined for destruction?

 

[XIII-Legion]

It makes no sense that it means predestination because it says ALL who dwell on the earth will worship it and ALL those who worship it cannot be found in God's book of life. So, everyone is all and none of us are in the book. Who is not predestined for destruction?

Wrong.

Those "whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of life from the foundation of the world" are a SUB-GROUP which belong to the UNIVERSAL GROUP of "ALL who dwell on earth will worship it = ALL who dwell on earth are sinners = ALL men are wicked".

But the SUB-GROUP is beyond redemption for whatever reasons.

The rest of the UNIVERSAL GROUP which is not the SUB-GROUP will either go to heaven/paradise or they will be consigned to purgatory before entering God's kingdom.

That the SUB-GROUP can be differentiated from the PARENT GROUP is consistent, and compatible with the rules of logic.

For YOU, I'm afraid there will be no reprieve or stay of execution on the day of judgement. (Revelation 20:15).

For God said: "I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass; I have purposed, and I will do it." (Isaiah 46:11).

Edit > Although true, such argument is superfluous because God (or Jesus) doesn't need to justify what He does to vessels of wrath, which are nothing more than fragments of pottery; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return. (Genesis 3:19).

 

[XIII-Legion]

Only because of person's unrepentent attitude she deserves death without resurrection.

But who is such a person?

Who is "she"?

 

[XIII-Legion]

No, we have free will. That interpretation makes no sense, sorry.

No, your 'free' will is nothing more than illusion.

You are reading this message at this precise moment because you think you are 'free' to do so; but the real reason is because you have nothing better to do, and you are more compelled to do this than anything else.

For at any given moment, we are more inclined to do one thing instead of something else; but this is not real "freedom" as such, but your ability to "choose" something is only according to such inclination, which is not freedom at all.

Your salvation is not according to your works, but by the grace of God are you saved from eternal damnation on the day of judgement. (Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:8-9; Ephesians 2:8-9).

 

[s2a]

Wrong.

Those "whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of life from the foundation of the world" are a SUB-GROUP which belong to the UNIVERSAL GROUP of "ALL who dwell on earth will worship it = ALL who dwell on earth are sinners = ALL men are wicked".

?
Got some Chapter and verse to share there?

But the SUB-GROUP is beyond redemption for whatever reasons.

The rest of the UNIVERSAL GROUP which is not the SUB-GROUP will either go to heaven/paradise or they will be consigned to purgatory before entering God's kingdom.

That the SUB-GROUP can be differentiated from the PARENT GROUP is consistent, and compatible with the rules of logic.

From Scripture 2000 years old... right?

For YOU, I'm afraid there will be no reprieve or stay of execution on the day of judgement. (Revelation 20:15).

For God said: "I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass; I have purposed, and I will do it." (Isaiah 46:11).

Edit > Although true, such argument is superfluous because God (or Jesus) doesn't need to justify what He does to vessels of wrath, which are nothing more than fragments of pottery; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return. (Genesis 3:19).

Oh!!!!

FEAR what is innocuous, mis-understandable, nonspecific, opaque, or uncomfortable!!!

HE...is gonna get ya!

He told ya...2000 years ago!!

*yawn*

 

[XIII-Legion]

?
Got some Chapter and verse to share there?


From Scripture 2000 years old... right?

Oh!!!!

FEAR what is innocuous, mis-understandable, nonspecific, opaque, or uncomfortable!!!

HE...is gonna get ya!

He told ya...2000 years ago!!

*yawn*

Say what you will.

But whatever you say will not serve to stay the course of God's wrath and judgement on the last day. (Revelation 20:15, 21:8).

For if God (Jesus) will not spare the life of President Obama he certainly won't spare yours either on the day of judgement. (Romans 11:21).

 

[s2a]

I do so enjoy Scripture that cites President Obama directly... doh!

Romans 11:21 "For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you."

I must need my "special" glasses for that one...my "rules of logic glasses".

Geez.

 

[oldbadger]

I would like to be well-done, please. Medium-rare is just stupid, and risky.

The idea that Jesus, the loving, forgiving, healing.... Jesus.... is a soul-cremating kind of being is just absurd. Where did this drivvel come from(?), because it sure never came from the Synoptic-Gospels. Please don't quote Paul or John...... what a pair!

 

[savagewind]

For YOU, I'm afraid there will be no reprieve or stay of execution on the day of judgement. (Revelation 20:15).

[/FONT]

For who? My real name is not savagewind.

 

[XIII-Legion]

No, we have free will. That reasoning you're using is very iffy and is not provable or proven. Likewise the verse you present does not mean we have no free will, rather it is evidence that we do.

However, the former Archbishop Rowan Williams also believes in predestination, which implies we don't have 'free' will.

But I am more inclined to listen to a bishop than somebody like you.

However, if you continue like this you will join those who would be destroyed by God's wrath on the day of judgement. (Revelation 20:15, 21:8).

 

[McBell]

Revelation 13:8 - and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

So what do you think of this passage?

I think the passage is merely stating the obvious: that there will be some who will cause themselves to have their names not in the Book of Life.

Do you agree this passage is clear, unequivocal and self-evident to the reader: Certain individuals are preordained to be destroyed by fire on the day of judgement?

No, I do not agree.
The only way one can come to that particular conclusion, I.E. Calvin, is if they are trying to twist the verse to say what they want instead of letting the verse speak for itself.

 

[McBell]

But I am more inclined to listen to a bishop than somebody like YOU.

Of course you are.
Everyone prefers to listen to those whose opinions mirror their own.
Of course, merely finding someone with the same opinion does not make said opinion right, or wrong, it merely means you share an opinion with someone.

Now you seem to think that because the person whose opinion you agree with has some sort of position, that makes your opinion some how "better".

Sadly, this is just plain flat out not true.

But if it makes you feel better about your opinion, by all means, carry on.

 

[XIII-Legion]

For who? My real name is not savagewind.

Don't care what your NAME is.

But you know WHO you are; and I know WHO this is.

However, this judgement will stand for always, which will not be altered on the last day. (Revelation 20:15).

 

[XIII-Legion]

Societal retribution is not equatable with punishment alone.

What do you mean, societal retribution?

But America is not the only country which can be platform to the Second Coming of Christ. (Matthew 21:43).

So what do I care if American voters have the wrong attitude?

But in terms of divine retribution do you care, or would you rather have more Americans be party to the coming holocaust? (Revelation 13:8, 20:11-15, 21:8).

For you, what would be the lesser of two evils?