Some people are preordained to be destroyed by fire on the day of judgement (Revelation 13:8).

[Bick]

Revelation 13:8 - and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

So what do you think of this passage?

Do you agree this passage is clear, unequivocal and self-evident to the reader: Certain individuals are preordained to be destroyed by fire on the day of judgement?

MY RESPONSE: As I read it considering the context, all who dwell on the earth will worship the beast (ruler) empowered by the dragon (Satan), those who names are not written in the Lamb's book of life.
It says nothing here about them being destroyed by fire on the judgment day.

In Rev.20:15 we read "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

As for them being preordained, I understand that Christ knows all whose names are written in the book of life, and that it is written that all the others will be cast into the lake of fire.

 

[we-live-now]

Revelation 13:8 - and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

So what do you think of this passage?

Do you agree this passage is clear, unequivocal and self-evident to the reader: Certain individuals are preordained to be destroyed by fire on the day of judgement?

There is much more going on here than we see with our natural eyes and minds.

First, we must understand that God's fire is HOLY and not destructive in the way that natural fire is. This is why the "burning bush" was not consumed. God's fire is refining and purifying removing ALL the impurities in us through trials and tribulations or "trials by fire". This is our personal "tribulation" and all of us will be "salted" or purified by his holy, cleansing fire.

"For everyone will be salted with fire Mark 9:49

Study and ponder the meaning of the world "fire" in "God's holy fire" in the Word. It's the Greek word "pur" which is where we get the word "purity" and "purify". Strong's Greek: 4442. πῦρ (pur) -- fire

God's fire does NOT destroy us, our true selves which is our inner spirit man. It does destroy the outer man as he is under law/death which is the cleansing side of God's fire. Ponder this verse and never forget that God is good and God is love.

"But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner's fire and like fullers' soap Malachi 3:2

This "day" is not a 24 hour day. It's a spiritual day and it's different for everyone according to God's plan for them. Some of us are fortunate enough to have this spiritual "day" occur in this life in the natural body. This is us experiencing God's judgment while IN the natural body. This is because God's judgment begins at HIS house (body).

For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:17

The ones who "obey" are the ones who believe now in this life while in the natural body. Not all will, but only a relative "few" in this age of the natural body. The ones that do are in the "household of God' or his body of Christ. The rest don't yet "obey" or believe. God WILL refine, purify and purge all evil from everyone through the process of death (to self or outer man).

Did you know that according to Mark 15:32 and Matt 27:42 that "the Christ (God's body/household) is STILL on the "cross" dying? Look at the verse, the word "now" is the Greek word "nyn" and it means RIGHT NOW at this very present moment.

"Let this Christ, the King of Israel, now come down from the cross, so that we may see and believe!" Those who were crucified with Him were also insulting Him Mark 15:32

Strong's Greek: 3568. νῦν (nun) -- now, the present

Contrary to the gospel that natural man has taught us, God is very good but his body must die first to enter eternal life. He loves all and will remove the dross and darkness (sin and law) from all people. The "testimony" is given at the proper time according to the Father's sovereign will. 1 Tim 2:6 They will die in the outer man, but death must come first in God's TRUE plan. We only live when we or the "I" of the false, outer man under law, dies.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit John 12:24

How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies 1 Cor 15:36

This is the MYSTERY of God my friends. He appears like DEATH to our outer man who is in darkness under law. He is perfect and pure and looks like death to us in the natural mind and body. Hidden in death is true LIFE. We must start believing his Word instead of man's natural mind who see's the false reality of the "outer" which is only a shadow of the truth and not the true substance.

The real truth and REAL substance is hidden within us inside the darkness. God is SO good and he IS love. He loves all and he will save all, just each according to his perfect plan and time. If you fear him, then you have not yet been made perfect in love (death).

The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love 1 John 4:8
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love. 1 John 4:18

Friends, our experience now in a natural body under law is not the TRUE reality or "substance". The truth (who IS JESUS!) is yet to come but is now appearing inside us!

For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near Hebrews 10:1

Do you see the powerful truth here? We all live in and believe a false "reality" if we think God's Word and the truth is based on the current, external world! It is not and nothing is as it appears. It (and we) will all die and this "death" will give birth to the new creation! If you fear God, you simply have more "dying" to do. "Death" is not popular among humans, but it is the way of God. I wrote more about God's Holy fire here: What is God's "fire"? Is it destructive? Or is it refining and cleansing us of impurities? - Kicked out of Church

This is God's mystery. All must die. All will die. But, all will live.

For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive 1 Cor 15:22

But, there is an order to things.

But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming 1 Cor 15:23

Please don't rationalize this away as natural man teaches you. Christ is the LORD of BOTH the saved "living" and the yet unsaved or "dead". All people are HIS! He is LORD of all flesh!

For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living Romans 14:9

even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life John 17:2

God bless and my the Lord give us eyes to see and ears to hear the love of the Father.

Duane

 

[Fredcow9]

I would suggest reading the chapter as a whole and putting it in the correct context. The beast is given total authority over basically everything, even allowed to make war with the saints and overcome them...so its probably safe to say those still around have the mark of the beast and with that mark cant go to heaven. So with the mark you cant be written in the book of life and this passage reaffirms that I think.

 

[XIII-Legion]

Not preordained.

Agreed.

But John Dalberg-Acton, 1st Baron Acton did say that: "Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

By definition, we therefore know that certain people will be more vulnerable than others simply for fact they have more power than others. Because of their power, such individuals will be tempted to use it for the wrong purpose, and use it to the detriment of others.

For instance, nobody is really preordained to crack their ribs, sprain their ankle, or dislocate their shoulder playing Rugby; but a person who is consistently involved in the game will stand a higher chance of injury than another person who has no interest whatsoever in the sport.

So nothing is ever guaranteed nor set in stone due to the agency of freewill; but you can be sure that the more power you have the more you will tend to use it for corrupt ends. Thus, the more likely you will be to partake in the "crucifixion and death of Jesus".

But once a person has condemned the Son of Man this would be the point of no return beyond which there will be no redemption, nor resurrection on the day of judgment.

However, it is not for me to lecture you on which people will have such power; and thereby, which people will be susceptible to Satan's influence and power at the time of the Second Coming of Christ.

But I will leave that to your own imagination to decide which people would be most susceptible and likely to be destroyed on the day of judgment. (Revelation 20:15).

 

[Faybull]

Revelation 13:8 - and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

So what do you think of this passage?

Do you agree this passage is clear, unequivocal and self-evident to the reader: Certain individuals are preordained to be destroyed by fire on the day of judgement?

 

[Faybull]

Oops...Didn't actually reply!

It doesn't say that all on the earth will worship it, but rather in all ( meaning every part of it) parts of the earth"...As to be rendered: "...all over the Earth it will be worshiped..."

Makes quite a difference, really.

 

[Blackmarch]

There is very little in the Bible that I take as self-evident etc and that includes this passage. Much of the Bible is only understandable metaphorically.

And to take one part of out context is often suboptimal as in this case. After all look at the start of Rev 13: And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Outside of Godzilla, perhaps, I don't expect such a literal event to occur. So why should I take that one part of Rev 13 literally.

some weird submarine mebbe?

 

[allright]

some weird submarine mebbe?

 

[allright]

Revelation 13:8 - and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

So what do you think of this passage?

Do you agree this passage is clear, unequivocal and self-evident to the reader: Certain individuals are preordained to be destroyed by fire on the day of judgement?