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Some questions about evolution.

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
ancient mans myths that claim magic because they had no real grasp on the world around them?
More like the stories were intended to provide a culture with a shared and very "we are the best" identity. Not as a literal explanation of the source of things.

Ancient people had a pretty good grasp of the world around them, or we would have gone extinct long ago.

wa:do
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
really though, that sums it up.



If you dont do the work and remain ignorant to the facts because it goes against your religion, well its your own fault.

If one only goes to religious biased sources, you will remain ignorant and again, its your own fault.

The millions who have made a careful study of creation versus evolution, and believe the evidence supports creation, belie your sweeping generalization. Hawking's contempt for anyone who disagrees with his world view reveals a closed mind. Contempt and ridicule are chief weapons evolutionists use to stifle honest criticism of their "faith".
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
The millions who have made a careful study of creation versus evolution, and believe the evidence supports creation, belie your sweeping generalization. Hawking's contempt for anyone who disagrees with his world view reveals a closed mind. Contempt and ridicule are chief weapons evolutionists use to stifle honest criticism of their "faith".

Actual research and falsifiable facts are the chief weapons. That is why honest, informed criticism of Evolutionism is so difficult to find.
 

jarofthoughts

Empirical Curmudgeon
Honest, enlightened, courageous, and reasoning comes immediately to mind.

I repeat:

Would you say that it is absolutely safe to say that, if you meet somebody who claims not to believe that the Earth is round, that person is either ignorant, stupid, or insane?

Would you say that it is absolutely safe to say that, if you meet somebody who claims not to believe that bacteria and viruses can make you sick, that person is either ignorant, stupid, or insane?

Would you say that it is absolutely safe to say that, if you meet somebody who claims not to believe that the Holocaust took place, that person is either ignorant, stupid, or insane?
 

outhouse

Atheistically
The millions who have made a careful study of creation versus evolution,

when did you make that up???? millions have not studied creation.


and believe the evidence supports creation

there is ZERO evidence for creation so i believe you made that up as well.







Contempt and ridicule are chief weapons evolutionists use to stifle honest criticism of their "faith

WRONG again.

facts, evidence, logic and reason are what scientist use to discover more about the facts of evolution.

WHILE creation has been outlawed from public schools, evolution is taught as higher learning in all major universities.

EPIC FAIL ON YOUR PART, shame on you for your poor attempt to leed the ignorant astray
 

outhouse

Atheistically
More like the stories were intended to provide a culture with a shared and very "we are the best" identity. Not as a literal explanation of the source of things.

Ancient people had a pretty good grasp of the world around them, or we would have gone extinct long ago.

wa:do


well thats your personal opinion not held by the majority.


one can hold myths as true in their belief system and have no ill effect on their long term survival. If what you stated was half true all people wouldbe dead by now.


one doesnt need complete knowledge of the world around them to survive.
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I repeat:

Would you say that it is absolutely safe to say that, if you meet somebody who claims not to believe that the Earth is round, that person is either ignorant, stupid, or insane?

Would you say that it is absolutely safe to say that, if you meet somebody who claims not to believe that bacteria and viruses can make you sick, that person is either ignorant, stupid, or insane?

Would you say that it is absolutely safe to say that, if you meet somebody who claims not to believe that the Holocaust took place, that person is either ignorant, stupid, or insane?

It has been proven the earth is round, that viruses can sicken a person, and that the Holocaust took place. These are facts. Comparing the ToE to these facts does not make the ToE a fact. Saying over and over again that something is a fact when it is not a fact is fraud, pure and simple. Pertinent is the following quote from
g87 7/22 p. 10
"A fact is something that exists beyond question. It is an actuality, an objective reality. It is established by solid evidence.

A theory is something unproved but at times assumed true for the sake of argument. It has yet to be proved as factual. Nonetheless, sometimes something is declared to be a fact that is only a theory."

All scientists do not agree that the ToE is a fact. In fact, many scientists believe the evidence does not support this theory. These men and women are neither ignorant, stupid, or insane. Millions of other intelligent people also do not believe the evidence supports this theory. And they are neither ignorant, stupid or insane. And calling them that is contemptible, arrogant, and shows the weakness of the ToE. ToE proponents know their pet is not accepted as fact and try to bully opposers of the theory by calling them stupid, insane, or ignorant (and other things as well).
 

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie

A theory is something unproved but at times assumed true for the sake of argument. It has yet to be proved as factual. Nonetheless, sometimes something is declared to be a fact that is only a theory."

...to bully opposers of the theory by calling them stupid, insane, or ignorant (and other things as well).
Here you have shown your ignorance of Scientific Theories by putting forth the colloquial use of the word theory.

Scientific Theory: A theory is what one or more hypotheses become once they have been verified and accepted to be true. A theory is an explanation of a set of related observations or events based upon proven hypotheses and verified multiple times by detached groups of researchers. Unfortunately, even some scientists often use the term "theory" in a more colloquial sense, when they really mean to say "hypothesis." That makes its true meaning in science even more confusing to the general public.
In general, both a scientific theory and a scientific law are accepted to be true by the scientific community as a whole. Both are used to make predictions of events. Both are used to advance technology.

Scientific Theory v. Hypothesis v. Scientific Law - The Scientific Method


There. If you choose to learn from the above, you will no longer be ignorant of what a Scientific Theory is.
If you choose to ignore it, you will be guilty of willful ignorance.
 

Commoner

Headache
I wonder why he said "or", since there seem to be so many people for which dishonest, ignorant, stupid and insane apply equally.
 

jarofthoughts

Empirical Curmudgeon
It has been proven the earth is round, that viruses can sicken a person, and that the Holocaust took place. These are facts.

So, you agree that it is absolutely safe to say that, if you meet somebody who claims not to believe these things, that person is either ignorant, stupid, or insane?

Comparing the ToE to these facts does not make the ToE a fact.

Good thing we have the evidence to back ToE up then, and not just empty claims.

Saying over and over again that something is a fact when it is not a fact is fraud, pure and simple.

Agreed.
Like the nonsense of Irreducible Complexity.
Definitely a fraud.
Or Ignorance, stupidity or insanity.

Pertinent is the following quote from
"A fact is something that exists beyond question. It is an actuality, an objective reality. It is established by solid evidence.

Sounds like Evolution to me. ;)

A theory is something unproved but at times assumed true for the sake of argument. It has yet to be proved as factual. Nonetheless, sometimes something is declared to be a fact that is only a theory."

Like the Theory of Gravity or the Atomic Theory?
Look, you are either intentionally misrepresenting what a Scientific Theory is or you are completely ignorant of what the words mean.
If it is the latter, then this video should prove to be enlightening for you:
[youtube]ItxVLu8J_d0[/youtube]
Science Works! Scientific Theory Explained - YouTube

All scientists do not agree that the ToE is a fact. In fact, many scientists believe the evidence does not support this theory.

"The vast majority of the scientific community and academia supports evolutionary theory as the only explanation that can fully account for observations in the fields of biology, paleontology, anthropology, and others. One 1987 estimate found that "700 scientists ... (out of a total of 480,000 U.S. earth and life scientists) ... give credence to creation-science". An expert in the evolution-creationism controversy, professor and author Brian Alters, states that "99.9 percent of scientists accept evolution". A 1991 Gallup poll of Americans found that about 5% of scientists (including those with training outside biology) identified themselves as creationists.
Additionally, the scientific community considers intelligent design, a neo-creationist offshoot, to be unscientific, pseudoscience, or junk science."

Level of support for evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, there is, of course, Project Steve: http://ncse.com/taking-action/project-steve :D

These men and women are neither ignorant, stupid, or insane.

Is it impossible for intelligent or educated people to be ignorant of certain subjects?

Millions of other intelligent people also do not believe the evidence supports this theory.

Then they have either not looked at, or understood, the evidence.
And just for the record, science is not a democracy.
It's a dictatorship.

And they are neither ignorant, stupid or insane.

Yes, they are.
(This is fun. How many times do you think we can go back and forth like this? :D )

And calling them that is contemptible, arrogant, and shows the weakness of the ToE.

Not if it's true.
Hint: it is. ;)

ToE proponents know their pet is not accepted as fact and try to bully opposers of the theory by calling them stupid, insane, or ignorant (and other things as well).

Or...they are fed up with people who would rather cling to literal interpretations of ancient creation myths than look at the evidence.
 
Last edited:

johnhanks

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by rusra02
I did not quote Elbert Spears.
I came into this debate quite late, but unless I'm mistaken the person you did quote was Fred Hoyle - another non-biologist, whose grasp of protein chemistry and ToE was shaky at best. Hoyle's fallacy was based on calculating the odds of a single, functional pre-specified protein assembling itself from an amino acid soup by chance - which, of course, are astronomical. Fortunately, neither abiogenesis nor ToE rests on the requirement for this to happen.

Still no reply on this one. How about it, rusra? Were you quoting Hoyle, or not? Fact remains, Hoyle's objections (and others of similar ilk) have been refuted time after time.
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
well thats your personal opinion not held by the majority.
I think it's more commonly held than you think. Certainly among anthropologists.

one can hold myths as true in their belief system and have no ill effect on their long term survival. If what you stated was half true all people wouldbe dead by now.

one doesnt need complete knowledge of the world around them to survive.
I didn't say complete knowledge... we don't have complete knowledge today.
I said they had a pretty good understanding of the world around them...

You said they had no real grasp of the world around them... this is patently false.

wa:do
 
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