Something cannot come from nothing?

[jewscout]

Which is Yiddish for "I haven't a clue".

no i'm pretty sure that was in english

 

[joeboonda]

I've heard the creationist arguement that something cannot come from nothing. Here is my question: Where did God come from then?

Hi all, here is my answer. The Bible says in the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth. Therefore, the universe had a beginning, and was designed and created by God. Now God did not need a creator as he created time and is outside time. Time began for us when God set the world in motion, turning on its axis creating the first day, and he called the light day and the dark night and the morning and the evening was the first day. Then he created the world in 6 literal days and rested the seventh as a pattern for us to follow. Now he could have done it in a split second but this is how he chose to do it, for us.

So the universe had a beginning, if it had a beginning it had a cause-God. God as creator of time, is outside of time, therefore He had no BEGINNING in time, has always existed, and so does not need a CAUSE.

PEACE!

 

[Rick123123]

[QUOTE-joeboonda]Hi all, here is my answer. The Bible says in the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth. Therefore, the universe had a beginning, and was designed and created by God. Now God did not need a creator as he created time and is outside time. Time began for us when God set the world in motion, turning on its axis creating the first day, and he called the light day and the dark night and the morning and the evening was the first day. Then he created the world in 6 literal days and rested the seventh as a pattern for us to follow. Now he could have done it in a split second but this is how he chose to do it, for us. [/QUOTE]
It seems you are reffering to here that time is an actual thing then instead of something made by man. You see joeboonda there is no such thing as time, time is merely a concept that man made up to explain the movement of objects through our universe. In reality time is not moving we are moving. The universe is kind of like a static feild which objects move through, this movement through the static feild has been called time. There is only one moment and that is now, it does not move we move through it. This moment is the same moment as the time when you were born all that has changed is that objects are in different places.

Modern science has proved this theory, actually Einstein did it through his theory of relativity, he showed that id you travel fast enough through space you will actualyl move backwards through time, so you see it is not the universe that is moving it is us.

So it would show that God is not outside of time, because there is no such thing as time.

 

[joeboonda]

Einstein was a Christian by the way. And time began when the earth began to rotate. The Bible says that God's going forths are from everlasting, that he always existed. God made time and we are in it. Time will end when God makes a new heaven and new earth, and we will spend eternity in heaven or hell. God had no beginning, no cause as only things in time have a cause or beginning, He spoke the world into existence out of nothing John chapter one. I will stick with what the Bible says about God, and it says he has always existed and always will, and that he loves us.

 

[Pah]

Einstein was a Christian by the way.

What???

One of the greatest physicists of all time, Nobel Prize winner and discoverer of the special and general theory of relativity, Albert Einstein was born on March 14, 1879, in Ulm, Wurttemberg, of Jewish parents.

Active in Jewish causes he was offered the Presidency of the State of Israel, but declined, “being deeply touched by the offer but not suited for the position.”

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/einstein.html

Albert Einstein was not a Christian. He had no concept of the God of the Bible or trust in Jesus Christ as his Lord and Saviour. His views on religion and 'God' were evolutionary and pantheistic.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v23/i1/einstein.asp

I hope you were merely misinformed.

 

[joeboonda]

Perhaps, but I DID read it somewhere, so he may have believed the Old Testament then, huh?

 

[ch'ang]

But in the metaphysical universe this law does not apply

What is this metaphysical universe you speak of could you please explain your beliefs a little clearer? Also jus to let you know the word universe means "The sphere or realm in which something exists or takes place." quoted from dictionary.com so basically it means everything that is, so there are no things "outside" the universe because to exist it has to be inside. And yes there is time, it is a measurement just like mass, saying there is no time is like saying there is no length.

Modern science has proved this theory, actually Einstein did it through his theory of relativity, he showed that id you travel fast enough through space you will actualyl move backwards through time

First of all he showed that time slows down the faster you go and when you reach light speed time stops. Secondly how does time dilation prove that time does not exist?

 

[Jaymes]

A good question, Cynic. I've often wondered the same, with the exception of the word 'universe' replacing 'God.'

Maybe there was never a time when God/the universe didn't exist? Which is just a strange a concept as the idea of one arising spontaneously...

Darn you for making me think!

Perhaps, but I DID read it somewhere, so he may have believed the Old Testament then, huh?

From Wikipedia:

Although he was raised Jewish, he was not a believer in Judaism. He simply admired the beauty of nature and the universe. From a letter written in English, dated March 24, 1954, Einstein wrote, "It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."

He also said (in an essay reprinted in Living Philosophies, vol. 13 (1931)): "A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, our perceptions of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which only in their most primitive forms are accessible to our minds - it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute true religiosity; in this sense, and this [sense] alone, I am a deeply religious man."

. . .

He also expressed admiration for Buddhism, which he said "has the characteristics of what would be expected in a cosmic religion for the future: It transcends a personal God, avoids dogmas and theology; it covers both the natural and the spiritual, and it is based on a religious sense aspiring from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual, as a meaningful unity."

So I'd say no, he didn't believe in the Tanach.

 

[Pah]

Perhaps, but I DID read it somewhere, so he may have believed the Old Testament then, huh?

You really hate to concede a point. From my edited post http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v23/i1/einstein.asp

Albert Einstein was not a Christian. He had no concept of the God of the Bible or trust in Jesus Christ as his Lord and Saviour. His views on religion and 'God' were evolutionary and pantheistic.

 

[Majikthise]

I like the Terry Prachett quote, "First there was nothing. And then it exploded."

Some percieve gods as having risen from belief. I choose to think that they are the spirits of other beings. Not all religions believe that diety came before creation.

I like that!!:clap

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They have come out with some new theories in science that hypothesize that when energy slows down enough it forms into matter.

But somehow the atoms that form the matter must somehow fuse together on thier own. Also it should be possible to turn anything into gold via manipulating the atomic structure, which would make on goal of alchemy actually possible.
Take Helium for example. It has one proton, and one electron. You would have to add enough protons and electrons to equal 79, and 118 nuetrons. Doing this (and matching the atomic mass) theoritically should turn the Helium into gold.
I have never heard of that theory before. Could you please post a link so I can learn more on it?

 

[joeboonda]

You really hate to concede a point. From my edited post http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v23/i1/einstein.asp

I must have been thinking of another great scientist then, my bad. Yup, you were right, I was thinking of Sir Isaac Newton, sorry!:bonk:

 

[Cynic]

[QUOTE-joeboonda]Hi all, here is my answer. The Bible says in the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth. Therefore, the universe had a beginning, and was designed and created by God. Now God did not need a creator as he created time and is outside time. Time began for us when God set the world in motion, turning on its axis creating the first day, and he called the light day and the dark night and the morning and the evening was the first day. Then he created the world in 6 literal days and rested the seventh as a pattern for us to follow. Now he could have done it in a split second but this is how he chose to do it, for us.

It seems you are reffering to here that time is an actual thing then instead of something made by man. You see joeboonda there is no such thing as time, time is merely a concept that man made up to explain the movement of objects through our universe. In reality time is not moving we are moving. The universe is kind of like a static feild which objects move through, this movement through the static feild has been called time. There is only one moment and that is now, it does not move we move through it. This moment is the same moment as the time when you were born all that has changed is that objects are in different places.

Modern science has proved this theory, actually Einstein did it through his theory of relativity, he showed that id you travel fast enough through space you will actualyl move backwards through time, so you see it is not the universe that is moving it is us.

So it would show that God is not outside of time, because there is no such thing as time.

It's called spacetime.

I've never heard einstien say that if you traveled fast enough through space, you'd travel backwards in time. This does not make sense to me. But please, if I'm wrong, do show me.

A singularity would be "outside of spacetime", for instance what was the cause of the Big Bang, since spacetime did no exists at that point, but only came when the Universe began it's inflation, When matter (I'm not an astrophysicist, and this is really a new area of science for me, so I'm just babbling) had almost infinite density and was an infinitesimal point which "exploded" into subatomic particles.
The hypothetical singularity is infinite, and thus it may be pointless to understand it, and what happened before the bang.
I dunno, my guess is that if you compress all the spacetime in the universe and the matter along with it, untill spacetime no longer exists, then what you have is the singularity and matter with infinite density.:bonk:

Nothing is moving, it's spacetime that is expanding and compressing. (As far as galaxies go).

BTW, the theory of general relativity hasn't been proven, it's still theory. However it has passed several tests and still stands.

 

[Cynic]

But somehow the atoms that form the matter must somehow fuse together on thier own. Also it should be possible to turn anything into gold via manipulating the atomic structure, which would make on goal of alchemy actually possible.
Take Helium for example. It has one proton, and one electron. You would have to add enough protons and electrons to equal 79, and 118 nuetrons. Doing this (and matching the atomic mass) theoritically should turn the Helium into gold.
I have never heard of that theory before. Could you please post a link so I can learn more on it?

[ME Blabbing off again:bonk:]
When you take amino acids and pressurize it by simulating a collision at the speed of 5,000 MPH, it binds into peptides. So, my assumption is, is that the subatomic particles bind similarily because of the high amounts of pressure in the initial inflation of the big bang to form hydrogen and helium atoms, and they bind to form all the other elements.

during the initial inflation everything would have been extremely hot and pressurized ( a big hot soup of particles), so all these subatomic particles would be traveling at extreme speeds, colliding into eachother, forming into atoms, and these atoms collide, forming into all the other atoms. (all within a fraction of a second). As inflation expands further, millions of years later, this highly presurized, hot soup reaction has slowed down, and matter begins to gradually cool.

 

[michel]

I've always asked creationists the question, "Why is it so easy to think that god has been around forever, but you can't seem to believe that energy has been around forever?"

I never get good responses to that question... anyone here have any good responses?

God created energy.

 

[ch'ang]

I've never heard einstien say that if you traveled fast enough through space, you'd travel backwards in time. This does not make sense to me. But please, if I'm wrong, do show me.

Don't worry, your not wrong Rick obviously doesn’t understand or was misinformed about relativity

 

[KirbyFan101]

But somehow the atoms that form the matter must somehow fuse together on thier own. Also it should be possible to turn anything into gold via manipulating the atomic structure, which would make on goal of alchemy actually possible.
Take Helium for example. It has one proton, and one electron. You would have to add enough protons and electrons to equal 79, and 118 nuetrons. Doing this (and matching the atomic mass) theoritically should turn the Helium into gold.
I have never heard of that theory before. Could you please post a link so I can learn more on it?

Helium does not have 1 proton and 1 electron.

Theoretically you can add as many protons and nuetrons as you like, but in reality the element would undergo beta decay (the emission of an electron/positron) and/or alpha decay (the emission of a helium nucleus) to stabalise itself.

Modern science has proved this theory, actually Einstein did it through his theory of relativity, he showed that id you travel fast enough through space you will actualyl move backwards through time, so you see it is not the universe that is moving it is us.

Time dilation is still largely theoretical (though it has been demonstrated with atomic clocks). Second of all you don't go BACK in time, Time slows down.

So it would show that God is not outside of time, because there is no such thing as time.

Yes, there is such thing as time. God knows *** you are talking about. Einstien said c was the universal constant, not time (which was newtonian physics's constant).

 

[TashaN]

I've always asked creationists the question, "Why is it so easy to think that god has been around forever, but you can't seem to believe that energy has been around forever?"

can you please tell me what do you mean excatly by energy or what kind of it if you don't mind?