Something from nothing...

[ryanam]

I'm sure that we can all agree that, as yet, there is no proven explanation as to how matter evolved from quantum foam to solid substance.

My question is that if believer's understand that a god initiated this evolution of nothing into something, what initiated the the evolution of nothing into the form of a god?

If a god has been in existence from the beginning of time (if there is such a thing) then why couldn't solid matter have existed from that same point in time?

And if god was fabricated from nothing at some stage, then why can that rule not be applied to solid matter?

 

[illykitty]

There is no begining for God. Things like time and matter do not apply, God is beyond all that. God created time and matter. God has no begining and no end. Only the creations do.

 

[ryanam]

Why is god beyond all that? Through what method does it use to scrutinize time in that way?

If god existed before time existed and (I assume) it was still a thinking entity, how was anything created? No time = no occurring, forward motion process i.e creation of anything.

 

[ryanam]

I hope believers don't take this as some arrogant attempt to disprove anything because I know that can't be done. I'm just questioning...

 

[illykitty]

I dont know why, thats my honest answer. He is the creator thus nothing created applies to him, including the notion of time. So whatever he willed was created. Time is something we see and live in, because we are creations. He isn't a creation, thus time has no effect on him. He's the one who created it.

You cannot apply human things on God, such as constraint of time.

 

[Thief]

Why is god beyond all that? Through what method does it use to scrutinize time in that way?

If god existed before time existed and (I assume) it was still a thinking entity, how was anything created? No time = no occurring, forward motion process i.e creation of anything.

You're on to it.
The actually mystery of creation.
From the void...all else.

All you gotta do now is decide...Spirit first? or substance?

 

[ryanam]

I dont know why, thats my honest answer. He is the creator thus nothing created applies to him, including the notion of time. So whatever he willed was created. Time is something we see and live in, because we are creations. He isn't a creation, thus time has no effect on him. He's the one who created it.

You cannot apply human things on God, such as constraint of time.

Thanks for your thoughts

I was under the impression that time (this word is misrepresented a lot, I think) was a universal constant, not only perceived by mankind but by every process in the universe. If we're the centre of the universe and we were created in god's image, then why create time in other parts of the universe? We can see, though wave mechanics, that the universe is expanding through red shift mechanics so time must exist to allow for that process... why have time exist in a location that mankind is unlikely to ever be able to travel to?

Also, I was wondering where the set of rules you pointed out originates...

 

[ryanam]

I dont know why

Thanks for your honesty... do you often feel like you should question the things that have been told to you but hold no bearing with known physical laws?

No disrespect to you but some points of view would be better expressed by the response 'Magic. That's all you need to know'.

I would be like me going to a patent office with a watch that counts down your life. "How does it work?" "Just put it on... that's all you need to know".

Obviously no human can claim to know the mind of god in that way... asking for reasons that people hold beliefs which god can only know (like that god is beyond the laws of physics) is natural, I think.

 

[Revoltingest]

You're on to it.
The actually mystery of creation.
From the void...all else.
All you gotta do now is decide...Spirit first? or substance?

I don't believe we need to decide at all.
Stuff is here, & no one was on hand to observe its inception.

Puny humans.....they ask too few questions, & offer too many answers.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

You cannot apply human things on God, such as constraint of time.

Time isn't a 'human thing,' it's a universal thing

You cannot commit any action nor have a thought, without it. Not even God.

 

[illykitty]

Well I'm not Christian so I don't hold the belief that God created us in his image. It is a constant in the Universe but I'm Panentheist, so I believe God is beyond the Universe thus why I believe time is not a barrier or applicable on God. My beliefs originate from various texts and research I've made on religion. I could be wrong, so I don't claim to hold the truth. Just my own conclusions.

I also hold the belief that there's probably life out there other than us. I do question things, I used to be an Atheist, although quite a bad and misinformed one. Not out of real doubt, just anger, frustration and just because I didn't know there was other alternatives than Christianity.

I do know I could be wrong but to my personal feelings, reasonning and research, I believe there is God. Religions are just different paths to the same thing. I don't see atheism or agnostism as a wrong or bad thing, in my opinion, there is reason to question God's existence. As long as they are not hurting theists of course!

All of this is my own belief and I don't claim to be right. Just a disclaimer. XD

 

[Pegg]

My question is that if believer's understand that a god initiated this evolution of nothing into something, what initiated the the evolution of nothing into the form of a god?

God is not made of matter

If a god has been in existence from the beginning of time (if there is such a thing) then why couldn't solid matter have existed from that same point in time?

time came into existence with our physical universe... God does not live in our physical universe nor is he dependent on it as we are....so he is outside of space and time as we know it.

And if god was fabricated from nothing at some stage, then why can that rule not be applied to solid matter?

Matter is dependent on energy...e=mc2....so it requires an input and therefore a first cause.

God is energy therefore he IS the first cause.

 

[ryanam]

God is not made of matter



time came into existence with our physical universe... God does not live in our physical universe nor is he dependent on it as we are....so he is outside of space and time as we know it.



Matter is dependent on energy...e=mc2....so it requires an input and therefore a first cause.

God is energy therefore he IS the first cause.

You made two distinct claims to know that god does not depend on physical properties of space and time and that god is, essentially, energy. Specifically the energy representable in matter.

Can you explain how you came to know both the state in which god lives and what makes up it's physical presence?

No disrespect, but without understanding the details in answers you're giving, you could give any supernatural explanation to be passed off as the truth in the hope that nobody would question the details.

Thanks

 

[darkendless]

There is no begining for God. Things like time and matter do not apply, God is beyond all that. God created time and matter. God has no begining and no end. Only the creations do.

Where is the logic in that? People say nothing can come from nothing but God can

That is senseless and bending the laws.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Well I'm not Christian so I don't hold the belief that God created us in his image. It is a constant in the Universe but I'm Panentheist, so I believe God is beyond the Universe thus why I believe time is not a barrier or applicable on God. My beliefs originate from various texts and research I've made on religion. I could be wrong, so I don't claim to hold the truth. Just my own conclusions.

I also hold the belief that there's probably life out there other than us. I do question things, I used to be an Atheist, although quite a bad and misinformed one. Not out of real doubt, just anger, frustration and just because I didn't know there was other alternatives than Christianity.

I do know I could be wrong but to my personal feelings, reasonning and research, I believe there is God. Religions are just different paths to the same thing. I don't see atheism or agnostism as a wrong or bad thing, in my opinion, there is reason to question God's existence. As long as they are not hurting theists of course!

All of this is my own belief and I don't claim to be right. Just a disclaimer. XD

No problem at all, but, what you believe still has to make some sense to you, right?

If God is outside this universe, does his 'greater universe' have Time of it's own?

An extra-dimensional universe, separate but similar to ours, could certainly exist, but without a Time element, it might be eternal [Time never passing] but would be without awareness or actions. Both such changes of state require Time. They would essentially be featureless wastelands.

 

[illykitty]

Reply to darkendless - Yes it can because it is the one who created those things. To me it is senseless that people think the universe came from nothing. See? It can go both ways. Your view is illogical to me and my view is illogical to you. There's no way getting around it. XD

Reply to HeathenHammer - I've never been there, so I don't know. Heard its nice.

Seriously though, all I speculate is that God is not bound by anything such as time, matter or space. I can't even imagine God (what it's like) or "where" it is.

 

[darkendless]

Yes it can because it is the one who created those things. To me it is senseless that people think the universe came from nothing. See? It can go both ways. Your view is illogical to me and my view is illogical to you. There's no way getting around it. XD

From nothing? Energy always existed.

But suggested a "being" came from nothing to design something is a leap without justification. I won't go as far as to say there is no God, it would be devoid of reasoning, but I reject the notion that God came from nothing. What reasoning do you have to suggest otherwise?

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Reply to darkendless - Yes it can because it is the one who created those things. To me it is senseless that people think the universe came from nothing. See? It can go both ways. Your view is illogical to me and my view is illogical to you. There's no way getting around it. XD

Reply to HeathenHammer - I've never been there, so I don't know. Heard its nice.

Seriously though, all I speculate is that God is not bound by anything such as time, matter or space. I can't even imagine God (what it's like) or "where" it is.

I don't think the universe came from nothing, you do [ God creating it from nothing by act of will].
As an Odinsman I have a creation story that simply jibes with reality [the Gods making our universe, as early members of it themselves, from materials at hand], but in reality I am also aware that the Big Bang, our best theory so far, does not make it 'something from nothing'; the big Bang Theory = 'something from everything'. There was never 'nothing'.

God cannot create unless he has his own Time. There's no getting around it. God can be powerful but he cannot be irrational. It is unpossible for God to have square circles on his tie.

 

[illykitty]

From nothing? Energy always existed.

God has always existed. And perhaps energy is God or comes from God.

What I meant by came from nothing is that things don't just make themselves happen. How did even the very first matter, become matter? Does matter make itself? Or do you believe energy creates matter?

 

[illykitty]

God cannot create unless he has his own Time. There's no getting around it. God can be powerful but he cannot be irrational. It is unpossible for God to have square circles on his tie.

Again you cannot apply things to god which exists for us. God is beyond everything. How does god have to comply with science? That would mean that god is limited. That doesn't work.