Something my dad asked

[Frank Goad]

My dad asked me if i don't have spiritual discernment.How can I tell a ghost from a demon?Also he said how can I tell out of body experiences are not from God if I have never had one?What should be my reply?I have heard of near death experiences were people have meet jesus but it was not their turn to die.But some atheists have said they died 100%.And came back to life.But that doesn't make sense.Because that isn't what Hebrews 9:27 says.I believe when you die and go to heaven or hell it is over.You don't turn into a ghost.Or come back to life.I think God did use out of body experiences along time ago.But isn't anymore.

 

[SalixIncendium]

My dad asked me if i don't have spiritual discernment.How can I tell a ghost from a demon?Also he said how can I tell out of body experiences are not from God if I have never had one?What should be my reply?

"I can't. Thank you for bringing me some perspective on the subject."

 

[Valjean]

Most people 'discern' truth according to their enculturated belief systems. They believe what is familiar and what their parents and neighbors told them, and, being an apophenic species, we discern patterns, connections, fulfilled prophecies and other 'evidences' even where none exist.

Very few critically analyze actual, relevant facts, or look for anomalies, contradictions or logical errors.

 

[Spirit of Light]

My dad asked me if i don't have spiritual discernment.How can I tell a ghost from a demon?Also he said how can I tell out of body experiences are not from God if I have never had one?What should be my reply?I have heard of near death experiences were people have meet jesus but it was not their turn to die.But some atheists have said they died 100%.And came back to life.But that doesn't make sense.Because that isn't what Hebrews 9:27 says.I believe when you die and go to heaven or hell it is over.You don't turn into a ghost.Or come back to life.I think God did use out of body experiences along time ago.But isn't anymore.

Your dad ask very good questions, and honestly you would gain deeper understanding by listening to him.

 

[ChristineM]

But some atheists have said they died 100%.And came back to life.But that doesn't make sense.

Not only atheists. My father had his slull broken in a robbery. He was in a coma for a month. He died 3 times according to the medical monitoring equipment he was wired up to. He is Christian.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Not only atheists. My father had his slull broken in a robbery. He was in a coma for a month. He died 3 times according to the medical monitoring equipment he was wired up to. He is Christian.

The Bible isn't exactly clear on what happens to a person after they die. For instance, Hebrews 9:27 says, "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment." On the contrary, Revelation 20:13 says, "The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done."

It appears that Hebrews 9:27 also contradicts Daniel 12:2, which says, "And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." Furthermore, 2 Chronicles 32:33 says, "And Hezekiah slept with his fathers, and they buried him in the upper part of the tombs of the sons of David, and all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem did him honor at his death. And Manasseh his son reigned in his place." There are several other verses similar to 2 Chronicles 32:33, such as 2 Chronicles 33:20; 1 Kings 15:8; 1 Kings 16:28; 2 Kings 13:13; 2 Kings 14:29, and so forth.

In an account of Jesus' alleged resurrection, Matthew 27:51-53 says, "Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many."

In John 11:11-15, it's written that Jesus said, "After saying these things, he said to them, 'Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I go to awaken him.' The disciples said to him, 'Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover.' Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that he meant taking rest in sleep. Then Jesus told them plainly, 'Lazarus has died, and for your sake I am glad that I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him.'” Jesus did not say that Lazarus' soul went straight to heaven and faced judgment after he died. He clearly said that Lazarus had fallen asleep and He would go wake up Lazarus, but Lazarus was dead.

Grant it, there are scriptures that seem to indicate judgment right after death, such as Hebrews 9:27 and 2 Corinthians 5:8, which says, "We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord." However, there are other scriptures that evidently contradict Hebrews 9:27 and 2 Corinthians 5:8, such as the ones I quoted in this post and several others.

Once again, the Bible is unclear on what it teaches.

 

[ChristineM]

The Bible isn't exactly clear on what happens to a person after they die. For instance, Hebrews 9:27 says, "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment." However, Revelation 20:13 says, "The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done."

It appears that Hebrews 9:27 also contradicts Daniel 12:2, which says, "And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." Furthermore, 2 Chronicles 32:33 says, "And Hezekiah slept with his fathers, and they buried him in the upper part of the tombs of the sons of David, and all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem did him honor at his death. And Manasseh his son reigned in his place." There are several other verses similar to 2 Chronicles 32:33, such as 2 Chronicles 33:20; 1 Kings 15:8; 1 Kings 16:28; 2 Kings 13:13; 2 Kings 14:29, and so forth.

In an account of Jesus' alleged resurrection, Matthew 27:51-53 says, "Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many."

In John 11:11-15, it's written that Jesus said, "After saying these things, he said to them, 'Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I go to awaken him.' The disciples said to him, 'Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover.' Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that he meant taking rest in sleep. Then Jesus told them plainly, 'Lazarus has died, and for your sake I am glad that I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him.'” Well, Jesus did not say that Lazarus' soul went straight to heaven and faced judgment after he died.

Grant it, there are scriptures that seem to indicate judgment right after death, such as Hebrews 9:27 and 2 Corinthians 5:8, which says, "We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord." However, there are other scriptures that evidently contradict Hebrews 9:27 and 2 Corinthians 5:8, such as the ones I quoted in this post and several others. Once again, the Bible is unclear on what it teaches.

Informative and it shows another aspect of how the bible contradicts itself

 

[Frank Goad]

The Bible isn't exactly clear on what happens to a person after they die. For instance, Hebrews 9:27 says, "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment." On the contrary, Revelation 20:13 says, "The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done."

It appears that Hebrews 9:27 also contradicts Daniel 12:2, which says, "And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." Furthermore, 2 Chronicles 32:33 says, "And Hezekiah slept with his fathers, and they buried him in the upper part of the tombs of the sons of David, and all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem did him honor at his death. And Manasseh his son reigned in his place." There are several other verses similar to 2 Chronicles 32:33, such as 2 Chronicles 33:20; 1 Kings 15:8; 1 Kings 16:28; 2 Kings 13:13; 2 Kings 14:29, and so forth.

In an account of Jesus' alleged resurrection, Matthew 27:51-53 says, "Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many."

In John 11:11-15, it's written that Jesus said, "After saying these things, he said to them, 'Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I go to awaken him.' The disciples said to him, 'Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover.' Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that he meant taking rest in sleep. Then Jesus told them plainly, 'Lazarus has died, and for your sake I am glad that I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him.'” Jesus did not say that Lazarus' soul went straight to heaven and faced judgment after he died. He clearly said that Lazarus had fallen asleep and He would go wake up Lazarus, but Lazarus was dead.

Grant it, there are scriptures that seem to indicate judgment right after death, such as Hebrews 9:27 and 2 Corinthians 5:8, which says, "We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord." However, there are other scriptures that evidently contradict Hebrews 9:27 and 2 Corinthians 5:8, such as the ones I quoted in this post and several others.

Once again, the Bible is unclear on what it teaches.

This makes it look like there are different types of afterlife's and resurrections. .

 

[nPeace]

My dad asked me if i don't have spiritual discernment.How can I tell a ghost from a demon?

My response to your dad would be, how do you know a ghost is not a demon?
Can you get his answer, and report back to me please.

Also he said how can I tell out of body experiences are not from God if I have never had one?

Another question for your dad. How do you know an out of body experience is from God?
I really would like to hear his answer.

What should be my reply?I have heard of near death experiences were people have meet jesus but it was not their turn to die.But some atheists have said they died 100%.And came back to life.But that doesn't make sense.Because that isn't what Hebrews 9:27 says.I believe when you die and go to heaven or hell it is over.You don't turn into a ghost.Or come back to life.I think God did use out of body experiences along time ago.But isn't anymore.

I think if you question your dad more, he would realize he doesn't know what he believes he does.

 

[Frank Goad]

My response to your dad would be, how do you know a ghost is not a demon?
Can you get his answer, and report back to me please.


Another question for your dad. How do you know an out of body experience is from God?
I really would like to hear his answer.


I think if you question your dad more, he would realize he doesn't know what he believes he does.

My dad said for the first one the story of the witch of endor and samuel 1 Samuel 28:1-24

For the second one: https: 2 Corinthians 12:1-5

He said he has his opinions.I have mine.

 

[nPeace]

Informative and it shows another aspect of how the bible contradicts itself

Interesting. I wonder why you would take his word... maybe because it sounds good to you.

His word actually contradicts the scriptures... but is that something you want to see.

The Bible is very clear about what happens after death.

Spoiler: They cease to exist

(Psalm 6:5) For in death there is no mention of you; In the Grave, who will praise you?
(Psalm 115:17) The dead do not praise Jah; Nor do any who go down into the silence of death.
(Ecclesiastes 9:10) Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going.
(Psalm 146:3, 4) Do not put your trust in princes Nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation. 4 His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish.
(Isaiah 38:18) For the Grave cannot glorify you, Death cannot praise you. Those who go down into the pit cannot hope for your faithfulness.
(Genesis 3:19) In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”
(Psalm 104:29) When you hide your face, they are disturbed. If you take away their spirit, they die and return to the dust.
(Ecclesiastes 3:20) All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust.
(Ecclesiastes 12:7) Then the dust returns to the earth, just as it was, and the spirit returns to the true God who gave it.

...and a whole heap more.

The writers he quotes does not contradict those passages. In fact, the writers are knowledgeable about death, but what he would need to do, is understand what they are saying.
That requires humility.

Think of it this way.
Once a foundation is laid, one builds on it. Not the other way around.
No one lays down blocks for the actual house, and then tries to lay the foundation .
Likewise, once one understands the simple truth about living and dying, they don't try to erase that fact by trying to inject their ideas on scriptures which do not change that foundational truth.

Simply. When one dies, they are rendered unconscious. They expire, and return to the dust - decay. They cease to exist.
This is supported by observable evidence.
No amount of beliefs or ideas contrary to this truth, can change it.

 

[nPeace]

My dad said for the first one the story of the witch of endor and samuel 1 Samuel 28:1-24

Thanks. I appreciate the response.

From that scripture, it is clear that Saul is seeking out a liar, for information.
God specifically told him... at least, when God was on speaking terms with him, to get rid of those people who dealt with his chief enemy - the liar - Satan the Devil, and his lying minions.
In fact God was not telling Saul anything, which caused him to go to the very ones he cleared out of the land - spirit mediums.

So ask your dad, why would you think that Satan will tell you the truth, through a medium?
I recall scriptures such as John 8:44, and 2 Thessalonians 2
9 But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deluding influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.

Wow. Isn't that as clear as day.
Would God not let Saul believe the lie, because he did not want to obey God?
I ask your dad.... Is that not a lesson for us?

For the second one: https: 2 Corinthians 12:1-5

Question to your dad... Did this scripture say that Paul had an out of body experience? If the answer is yes, please show me where I can read that he did.

He said he has his opinions.I have mine.

Yes, but it is good to discuss those opinions, especially when we do believe in God, and his word the Bible, is it not? Or does your dad think that he is not required to teach the truth, as Jesus commanded?

 

[ChristineM]

Interesting. I wonder why you would take his word... maybe because it sounds good to you.

His word actually contradicts the scriptures... but is that something you want to see.

The Bible is very clear about what happens after death.

Spoiler: They cease to exist

(Psalm 6:5) For in death there is no mention of you; In the Grave, who will praise you?
(Psalm 115:17) The dead do not praise Jah; Nor do any who go down into the silence of death.
(Ecclesiastes 9:10) Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going.
(Psalm 146:3, 4) Do not put your trust in princes Nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation. 4 His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish.
(Isaiah 38:18) For the Grave cannot glorify you, Death cannot praise you. Those who go down into the pit cannot hope for your faithfulness.
(Genesis 3:19) In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”
(Psalm 104:29) When you hide your face, they are disturbed. If you take away their spirit, they die and return to the dust.
(Ecclesiastes 3:20) All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust.
(Ecclesiastes 12:7) Then the dust returns to the earth, just as it was, and the spirit returns to the true God who gave it.

...and a whole heap more.

The writers he quotes does not contradict those passages. In fact, the writers are knowledgeable about death, but what he would need to do, is understand what they are saying.
That requires humility.

Think of it this way.
Once a foundation is laid, one builds on it. Not the other way around.
No one lays down blocks for the actual house, and then tries to lay the foundation .
Likewise, once one understands the simple truth about living and dying, they don't try to erase that fact by trying to inject their ideas on scriptures which do not change that foundational truth.

Simply. When one dies, they are rendered unconscious. They expire, and return to the dust - decay. They cease to exist.
This is supported by observable evidence.
No amount of beliefs or ideas contrary to this truth, can change it.

What are you talking about? Bible contradictions are well documented, but of course they are not what you want to see.

No, it's not particularly what i want to hear, i simply could not care less, but it is fact.

The bible may be clear to those with bible blinkers on but is it scientifically evidenced? No, what is evidenced is that after death brain function creases, cells begin to break down.

And i im not interested in preaching, apologetics or strawmen

 

[Frank Goad]

Thanks. I appreciate the response.

From that scripture, it is clear that Saul is seeking out a liar, for information.
God specifically told him... at least, when God was on speaking terms with him, to get rid of those people who dealt with his chief enemy - the liar - Satan the Devil, and his lying minions.
In fact God was not telling Saul anything, which caused him to go to the very ones he cleared out of the land - spirit mediums.

So ask your dad, why would you think that Satan will tell you the truth, through a medium?
I recall scriptures such as John 8:44, and 2 Thessalonians 2
9 But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deluding influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.

Wow. Isn't that as clear as day.
Would God not let Saul believe the lie, because he did not want to obey God?
I ask your dad.... Is that not a lesson for us?


Question to your dad... Did this scripture say that Paul had an out of body experience? If the answer is yes, please show me where I can read that he did.


Yes, but it is good to discuss those opinions, especially when we do believe in God, and his word the Bible, is it not? Or does your dad think that he is not required to teach the truth, as Jesus commanded?

My dad says it's samuel because of 1 Samuel 28:15.

My dad believes he did.Because he says it right out says in the body or out of the body in 2 Corinthians 12:2-3.He also says it says only God knows in 2 Corinthians 12:2-3.

He says in order to understand the full bible's teachings on the afterlife.You have to read it all.Just not pick random verses out.

So that's it.I answered all of your questions.

 

[nPeace]

What are you talking about? Bible contradictions are well documented, but of course they are not what you want to see.

No, it's not particularly what i want to hear, i simply could not care less, but it is fact.

The bible may be clear to those with bible blinkers on but is it scientifically evidenced? No, what is evidenced is that after death brain function creases, cells begin to break down.

And i im not interested in preaching, apologetics or strawmen

Biblical archaeology is a science. Yes.

 

[Frank Goad]

Biblical archaeology is a science. Yes.

I didn't know that.

 

[ChristineM]

Biblical archaeology is a science. Yes.

Archaeology, yes, whether it's in what is termed the Holy Land or Timbuktu.

And the point is?

 

[nPeace]

Archaeology, yes, whether it's in what is termed the Holy Land or Timbuktu.

And the point is?

You asked.

 

[ChristineM]

You asked.

Please show me where i askec if biblical archaeology is a science?

What i was asking if it was scientifically evidenced is the meat and potatoes, not the plate its laid out on.

BTW, By why is it that people who cite that bible archaeology is true so the bible is true never accept that harry potter is true just because Hogwarts (Alnwick castle) exists

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Please show me where i asked if biblical archaeology is a science?

What i was asking if it was scientifically evidenced is the meat and potatoes, not the plate its laid out on.

BTW, By why is it that people who cite that bible archaeology is true so the bible is true never accept that harry potter is true just because Hogwarts (Alnwick castle) exists

Personally speaking, I think @Father Heathen posted a couple of good points about the Bible in another thread on the paranormal. First, he mentioned the Bible's own lack of consistency, coherency, and substantiation cast it into doubt. I agree with him. Secondly, he asked why he should consider the Bible itself a credible authority on anything, much less anyone's particular interpretation of it.

For the record, his posts were directed towards another Christian posting scriptures in an attempt to dispute the paranormal from a biblical stance. Father Heathen also made the comment that if this Christian had been born in the Middle East, then he would be making the same claims about the Quran as a credible authority on spirituality. And you made a good point in your last sentence.