something we can all agree on?

[SalixIncendium]

I think it would be reasonable for others to believe I exist because it would make more sense for their experience of me to be based on there being a reality of me than it would on me being some kind of an illusion

Reality being real is less complicated than reality being an illusion hence I would say it is more reasonable

For instance who would be behind such an illusion and how would it work?

Occam's razor etc.

Which would mean me existing is more reasonable than me not existing, as far as others are concerned

So that is why I would hope others believe I exist

I'm not talking about your existence being reasonable to believe. I'm talking about actually proving to others that you exist as a form.

 

[Arnaud1221]

The mal and the good exist.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Yes, insofar as I can prove anything.

If you want me to prove to you I exist, you can present me your cheek and I can introduce you to my fist.
I don't think you'll doubt my existence afterwards, assuming you actually doubted it before.

These would just be subjective experiences. Can a subjective experience prove something exists? You would have to prove that the subjective sense experience proves your fist exists...or that my cheek exists, for that matter.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I know that I exist so as far as I'm concerned those perspectives are wrong

Cogito, ergo sum - I think, therefore I am.

But Descarte's first principle is not uncontested. Kierkegaard is just one philosopher who took issue with it. Philosophers are like that; I doubt there's any statement or observation ever made, that some school of philosophy didn't reject.

 

[Eddi]

I'm not talking about your existence being reasonable to believe. I'm talking about actually proving to others that you exist as a form.

I would ask a person who doubts that I exist as a form whether or not they think they themselves exist as a form, and then take it from there

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

These would just be subjective experiences.

I'ld say that the resulting broken jaw would be as empirical as it comes.
If you wish to take that and still say "it could all be an illusion and I'm just a brain in a vat!", I'ld say "fine... now go to bed".

Can a subjective experience prove something exists?

As I said: insofar as I can prove anything.
If you are going to simply call literally everything a subjective experience because anything and everything you can see, hear, feel, etc is inevitably going to find its way to your brain through your senses, go right ahead.

I think it's a pretty useless way to play the game.

You would have to prove that the subjective sense experience proves your fist exists...or that my cheek exists, for that matter.

Go to bed.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I would ask a person who doubts that I exist as a form whether or not they think they themselves exist as a form, and then take it from there

And if the person who doubts you exist as a form also doubts they exist as a form, where would you take it?

 

[SalixIncendium]

I'ld say that the resulting broken jaw would be as empirical as it comes.
If you wish to take that and still say "it could all be an illusion and I'm just a brain in a vat!", I'ld say "fine... now go to bed".



As I said: insofar as I can prove anything.
If you are going to simply call literally everything a subjective experience because anything and everything you can see, hear, feel, etc is inevitably going to find its way to your brain through your senses, go right ahead.

I think it's a pretty useless way to play the game.




Go to bed.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Can we all agree that there is something rather than nothing?

Definitely.

I think nothing is always something, weither you go up or down the rabbit hole as deep or high as one can be able.

There will be something there.

 

[Eddi]

And if the person who doubts you exist as a form also doubts they exist as a form, where would you take it?

I would ask them about substances

About materialism, idealism, dualism

And about the notion of a single divine substance

I would ascertain what they think things are made of

 

[SalixIncendium]

I would ask them about substances

About materialism, idealism, dualism

And about the notion of a single divine substance

I would ascertain what they think things are made of

So you would shift the burden of proof for your existence to them?

 

[Eddi]

So you would shift the burden of proof for your existence to them?

Yes and if I questioned their existence I think it would be reasonable for them to shift the burden to me

 

[Secret Chief]

I think it would be reasonable for others to believe I exist because it would make more sense for their experience of me to be based on there being a reality of me than it would on me being some kind of an illusion

Reality being real is less complicated than reality being an illusion hence I would say it is more reasonable

For instance who would be behind such an illusion and how would it work?

Occam's razor etc.

Which would mean me existing is more reasonable than me not existing, as far as others are concerned

So that is why I would hope others believe I exist

I thought you were a chatbot...

 

[SalixIncendium]

Yes and if I questioned their existence I think it would be reasonable for them to shift the burden to me

So if someone...say...created a thread questioning the existence of "something" rather than "nothing," the burden of proof would be on them to prove something exists?

 

[Eddi]

So if someone...say...created a thread questioning the existence of "something" rather than "nothing," the burden of proof would be on them to prove something exists?

That wouldn't be much of a burden though

 

[SalixIncendium]

That wouldn't be much of a burden though

Philosophically speaking, it might be more of a burden that you might think.

 

[Eddi]

Philosophically speaking, it might be more of a burden that you might think.

How so?

 

[ChristineM]

Can we all agree that there is something rather than nothing?

Depends on what you consider to be nothing.

Nothing with dimensions through which light can pass.

Or

Nothing without dimensions?

 

[SalixIncendium]

How so?

@Quintessence has already explained this in post #7.

 

[Eddi]

@Quintessence has already explained this in post #7.

None of which I personally find convincing