e.r.m.
Church of Christ
I have posted these points on a number of forums and rarely seem to get a response on them. I'd like to give them their own thread and see what others may have to say. These are not the typical arguments like eis is always forward looking, although I'm seeing growing evidence for that, and the ones that says repent is in included in the "for" forgiveness of sins, although that's a rock solid argument in and of itself. These are inconsistencies or clashes that I've seen that are more subtle, yet just as disqualifying to the because of argument.
For those who believe for in Acts 2:38 means because of
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ because of the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Then it runs into the following problems.
1. If it's because of, he's telling them to get baptized because of their forgiveness of sins, without them knowing first that their sins were forgiven.
2. If it's because of he's telling them to get baptized because of the forgiveness of their sins. What does one have to do with another? He puts the two together without connecting them in any way or explaining what one has to do with the other. For the first time that baptism is ever mentioned in history, it would leave them in the dark without saying the relationship between the two.
Analogy - "Sit in the other chair, because of your raise?"
... Huh?, why? What does having a raise have to do with where I sit?
... And wait, I got a raise?
Now people may give all sorts of explanations why Peter told them to get baptized in relation to their forgiveness (such as Peter consequently told them to do that as a public declaration of their faith), but Peter didn't give any explanation whatsoever! He left them completely in the dark.
Telling them to get baptized forward looking "into" or "in order to receive" forgiveness of sins fits completely within what he stated.
3. Why bring up baptism into a forgiveness of sin discussion in the first place if it doesn't belong. People who don't believe baptism is involved in getting saved don't bring it up. They say things like "Follow me in prayer", "Accept Jesus as personal savior" and all that. They never put baptism & forgiveness of sins in the same sentence unless it's to emphasize that they're not connected. Peter did included it, and didn't give any qualifier.
4. Peter took what Jesus said in Mark 16:16 and turned that into Acts 2:38-39.
5. Peter said “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit...." to a group of Jews who were used to the mikveh, which was water immersion many did obsessively to be cleansed. Telling them to be baptized in order to receive forgiveness of sins would be accepted right away. Telling them to be baptized because of forgiveness of sins would make no sense to them.
6. Comparing all eis instances together in scriptures that relate to being saved/forgiven shows a trend. ALL such scriptures always use eis in the forward sense, like Acts 3:19 and Romans 10:10. Relevant verses such as these give context to Acts 2:38. And since eis in relevant salvation verses are all forward looking, then it's fitting that Acts 2:38 is forward looking looking as well.
7. There's more wiggle room to argue For/eis in English than there is in Spanish. In English, for could mean either) forward-looking, (as in into or in order to receive) or backward-looking (as in because of, or in view of). In Spanish you don't have that, you have to choose between the words "por" (backward looking for) and "para" (forward looking for). I looked up 11 translations in spanish and 10 of those used para. The eleventh didn't use either por or para, but worded it as if it is para, such as "be baptized in order to receive". In Acts 2:38 Eis is overwhelmingly understood as "in order to receive".
8. In English, only a few obscure translations like the Renaissance and Weymouth Bibles translate it as because of. The overwhelming majority translate it as for.
9. Peter stated both Acts 2:38 and 1 Peter 3:21 "baptism that now saves you also". I understand all the arguments against 1st Peter 3: 21. My point is this, if a person is misunderstood once, it's easier to explain it away as what he said is not actually what he meant as in Acts 2:38. If a person says something twice, it's harder to explain that both times he didn't mean what he said.
Feel free to address any or all the points.
The floor is open. Thank you.
For those who believe for in Acts 2:38 means because of
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ because of the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Then it runs into the following problems.
1. If it's because of, he's telling them to get baptized because of their forgiveness of sins, without them knowing first that their sins were forgiven.
2. If it's because of he's telling them to get baptized because of the forgiveness of their sins. What does one have to do with another? He puts the two together without connecting them in any way or explaining what one has to do with the other. For the first time that baptism is ever mentioned in history, it would leave them in the dark without saying the relationship between the two.
Analogy - "Sit in the other chair, because of your raise?"
... Huh?, why? What does having a raise have to do with where I sit?
... And wait, I got a raise?
Now people may give all sorts of explanations why Peter told them to get baptized in relation to their forgiveness (such as Peter consequently told them to do that as a public declaration of their faith), but Peter didn't give any explanation whatsoever! He left them completely in the dark.
Telling them to get baptized forward looking "into" or "in order to receive" forgiveness of sins fits completely within what he stated.
3. Why bring up baptism into a forgiveness of sin discussion in the first place if it doesn't belong. People who don't believe baptism is involved in getting saved don't bring it up. They say things like "Follow me in prayer", "Accept Jesus as personal savior" and all that. They never put baptism & forgiveness of sins in the same sentence unless it's to emphasize that they're not connected. Peter did included it, and didn't give any qualifier.
4. Peter took what Jesus said in Mark 16:16 and turned that into Acts 2:38-39.
5. Peter said “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit...." to a group of Jews who were used to the mikveh, which was water immersion many did obsessively to be cleansed. Telling them to be baptized in order to receive forgiveness of sins would be accepted right away. Telling them to be baptized because of forgiveness of sins would make no sense to them.
6. Comparing all eis instances together in scriptures that relate to being saved/forgiven shows a trend. ALL such scriptures always use eis in the forward sense, like Acts 3:19 and Romans 10:10. Relevant verses such as these give context to Acts 2:38. And since eis in relevant salvation verses are all forward looking, then it's fitting that Acts 2:38 is forward looking looking as well.
7. There's more wiggle room to argue For/eis in English than there is in Spanish. In English, for could mean either) forward-looking, (as in into or in order to receive) or backward-looking (as in because of, or in view of). In Spanish you don't have that, you have to choose between the words "por" (backward looking for) and "para" (forward looking for). I looked up 11 translations in spanish and 10 of those used para. The eleventh didn't use either por or para, but worded it as if it is para, such as "be baptized in order to receive". In Acts 2:38 Eis is overwhelmingly understood as "in order to receive".
8. In English, only a few obscure translations like the Renaissance and Weymouth Bibles translate it as because of. The overwhelming majority translate it as for.
9. Peter stated both Acts 2:38 and 1 Peter 3:21 "baptism that now saves you also". I understand all the arguments against 1st Peter 3: 21. My point is this, if a person is misunderstood once, it's easier to explain it away as what he said is not actually what he meant as in Acts 2:38. If a person says something twice, it's harder to explain that both times he didn't mean what he said.
Feel free to address any or all the points.
The floor is open. Thank you.
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