soul

[Katzpur]

The Bible states that the disobedient angels are now "spirits in prison," having been ‘thrown into Tartarus’ and "reserved with eternal bonds under dense darkness for the judgment of the great day." This seems to indicate that they are greatly restricted, unable again to materialize as they did prior to the Flood.—1Pe 3:19; 2Pe 2:4; Jude 6 so these spirits are not dead people they are angels.

Wow! Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but that strikes me as a pretty creative interpretation of scripture.

 

[may]

"The belief that the soul continues its existence after the dissolution of the body is a matter of philosophical or theological speculation rather than of simple faith, and is accordingly nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture."—The Jewish Encyclopedia (1910), Vol. VI, p. 564

 

[michel]

"The belief that the soul continues its existence after the dissolution of the body is a matter of philosophical or theological speculation rather than of simple faith, and is accordingly nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture."—The Jewish Encyclopedia (1910), Vol. VI, p. 564

Well, it would be, wouldn't it ? -I mean, I can't think of a way anyone could prove it; most people insist of proof.

 

[true blood]

If this is the case, why can't I find anywhere in Genesis your definition of the spirit being "the image of God (invisibility)" being "created in man for communication with God? In plain English, please explain your understanding of the words "spirit" and "soul." I'd like to be able to understand your point of view; I'm not just being argumentative.

For me its deciding that the words "formed, made, and created" in Genesis are not synonymous. These words were used in God's work bringing about man. These words cannont have the same meanings. Then in other scripture the words "body, soul and spirit" are used in describing man. Again, these words cannont be synonymous. So basicly it's matching up the characteristics with the workmanship God did in Genesis. God formed body. God made soul. God created spirit. Seems simple. Then the passage "And in the very day that thou eatest of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil thou shalt surely die". That sentence suggest that the very day Adam would disobey, something would die in Adam. Clearly it was the "spirit" that departed from Adam.

 

[may]

Well, it would be, wouldn't it ? -I mean, I can't think of a way anyone could prove it; most people insist of proof.

its interesting that it is not taught in scripture considering that people who say they are followers of the bible seem to believe in the imortal soul

 

[Katzpur]

...in other scripture the words "body, soul and spirit" are used in describing man. Again, these words cannont be synonymous. So basicly it's matching up the characteristics with the workmanship God did in Genesis. God formed body. God made soul. God created spirit. Seems simple.

Okay, but you still didn't explain what you believe to be the difference between the spirit and the soul, and to me that's a very, very important part of this discussion. I see the physical body as the flesh and bones part of man. I understand the spirit to be the thinking, feeling part of man, his will, his consciousness, his identity and personality. When the spirit enters into a physical body, man becomes “a living soul.” Conversely, when the spirit leaves the physical body, man experiences death.

 

[jewscout]

"The belief that the soul continues its existence after the dissolution of the body is a matter of philosophical or theological speculation rather than of simple faith, and is accordingly nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture."—The Jewish Encyclopedia (1910), Vol. VI, p. 564

yes but your scripture however does not prove that the soul dies either, in fact one of the 13 priniples of jewish faith is the belief that G-d will bring the dead back to life, so the soul will return
the fact of the matter is there is very little written on the afterlife, so no one really knows
what will happen...this however does not prove the death of the soul

 

[may]

yes but your scripture however does not prove that the soul dies either, in fact one of the 13 priniples of jewish faith is the belief that G-d will bring the dead back to life, so the soul will return
the fact of the matter is there is very little written on the afterlife, so no one really knows
what will happen...this however does not prove the death of the soul

The soul is you as a person so it dies. the hope from the bible is for resurrectionfrom God, back on the earth, for most of us .the proof is we see the fleshly body die it goes to dust just like the bible says

 

[true blood]

Okay, but you still didn't explain what you believe to be the difference between the spirit and the soul, and to me that's a very, very important part of this discussion. I see the physical body as the flesh and bones part of man. I understand the spirit to be the thinking, feeling part of man, his will, his consciousness, his identity and personality. When the spirit enters into a physical body, man becomes “a living soul.” Conversely, when the spirit leaves the physical body, man experiences death.

I've always believed that the soul was the thinking, feelings, consciousness, and personality of man. It's like God formed man's body, there it is, formed yet without animation. Then God breathed into man's nostrils the breath of life making man a living soul. Now there is animation inside of the body. And the life of the soul is in the blood. But then the spirit part God created must be something else because the word does not have the same meaning as body and soul.

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

Every single owner of a soul has the right and decision to terminate the existence of their own soul. No one has the option or the ability to do this. Why would someone want to discontinue the existence of their soul? Because they tire of existing, we have examples of this in the physical realm. What does this experience of a discontinued soul feel like? Well even May can agree with me that it feels like nothing

I don't think the soul has the ability to cease. Just like a rushing river cannot stop flowing of it's own accord. It can be damned. Were the water is held and builds up pressure. But the water never becomes nothing. It might turn to ice, or vapor. But it does not cease to exist. It might go down into the ground or up into the sky, but it does not cease to exist.

 

[jewscout]

The soul is you as a person so it dies. the hope from the bible is for resurrectionfrom God, back on the earth, for most of us .the proof is we see the fleshly body die it goes to dust just like the bible says

again though, scripturally speaking, nothing you have quoted has said that all souls die

 

[may]

"Immortality of the soul is a Greek notion formed in ancient mystery cults and elaborated by the philosopher Plato."—Presbyterian Life, May 1, 1970, p. 35

Ezek. 18:4: "Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul that is sinning—it itself will die." (Hebrew reads "the ne´phesh." KJ, AS, RS, NE, and Dy render it "the soul." Some translations say "the man" or "the person.")
Eccl. 3:19: "There is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit [Hebrew, ru´ach]." (Thus both mankind and beasts are shown to have the same ru´ach, or spirit.

 

[Exis]

what good is the soul without the breath of life?

 

[starlite]

according to some , who claim to follow the bible ,when a person dies they go to heaven or hell ,but according to the bible they just go to the grave,so imortality of the soul is not in line with the bible thats how it looks to me.so what is right then,imortality of the soul or the bible.

In agreement....the bible is the authority

 

[crystalonyx]

There is no essence of a person besides their corporeal form. Once you die, you're dead, that's the way of evolution.

 

[mikmik]

Man is a living soul. Gen clearly states that man became a living soul when given our life's breath from God.. it is not stated that an eternal soul entered man's fleshy vessel for a temporary visit. Our spirit is what makes each person the individual that they are,, we sometimes call it the mind. A man/soul is not destroyed, and it does not completely cease to exists upon our physical death, this one is of the flesh. The Bible often refers to death as sleep, and it is common knowledge among people of the Bible. Even Jesus slept in the grave for 3 days and 3 nights before He rose. His body was severely injured, obviously, and His flesh would have started to decompose, but these things were restored and perfected at the time of resurrection. He was the first. The Bible clearly states that when Jesus returns, the dead in Him (true Christians, the true saints) will rise first. (Why rise and wake if you are already hanging out in heaven?) They will wake up, and rise. Then those (true Christians and saints) who are alive at that time will be instantly changed. So people who are alive with serious physical problems will be changed at that moment, become like Jesus, and rise to meet Him.. along with the dead who have been cremated/decomposed.. when they wake they will be like Him and rise. It is unclear and unstated what exactly this glorified existence will be like, but it is stated in the Bible that we will be known as we are now, and that there will be memories of individuals, so our earthly (fleshy) form of existence has to be relevant in some way. The theory of dying, and then our separated immortal soul floats off, going immediately to heaven or hell just doesn't match anything that the Bible teaches us about death, and what God has planned out for eternal life.

Tons of verses here to support these things in the Bible. I'm sure most are known, but I would be happy to retrieve them for any specific point if anyone would like them.

mik

 

[logician]

Man is a living soul. Gen clearly states that man became a living soul when given our life's breath from God.. it is not stated that an eternal soul entered man's fleshy vessel for a temporary visit. Our spirit is what makes each person the individual that they are,, we sometimes call it the mind. A man/soul is not destroyed, and it does not completely cease to exists upon our physical death, this one is of the flesh. The Bible often refers to death as sleep, and it is common knowledge among people of the Bible. Even Jesus slept in the grave for 3 days and 3 nights before He rose. His body was severely injured, obviously, and His flesh would have started to decompose, but these things were restored and perfected at the time of resurrection. He was the first. The Bible clearly states that when Jesus returns, the dead in Him (true Christians, the true saints) will rise first. (Why rise and wake if you are already hanging out in heaven?) They will wake up, and rise. Then those (true Christians and saints) who are alive at that time will be instantly changed. So people who are alive with serious physical problems will be changed at that moment, become like Jesus, and rise to meet Him.. along with the dead who have been cremated/decomposed.. when they wake they will be like Him and rise. It is unclear and unstated what exactly this glorified existence will be like, but it is stated in the Bible that we will be known as we are now, and that there will be memories of individuals, so our earthly (fleshy) form of existence has to be relevant in some way. The theory of dying, and then our separated immortal soul floats off, going immediately to heaven or hell just doesn't match anything that the Bible teaches us about death, and what God has planned out for eternal life.

Tons of verses here to support these things in the Bible. I'm sure most are known, but I would be happy to retrieve them for any specific point if anyone would like them.

mik

So let me ge this straight, do you go to heaven when die (if you are a good boy or girl), or are you "hanging around" awaiting the final ressurection? I think many Christians believe the former.

 

[mikmik]

So let me ge this straight, do you go to heaven when die (if you are a good boy or girl), or are you "hanging around" awaiting the final ressurection? I think many Christians believe the former.

Small questions.. big answers. Being brief is NOT a strength, but I will try...

Yes, I am aware of what most people believe, and I used to believe that too. I did because that is what I was taught starting from day one, and I just believed everyone, and never looked up anything for myself in the Bible. But this is not what the Bible teaches. Hanging around might not quite be it, but uttering the words "Rest in Peace" as you place someone in the earth.. that is very appropriate. Man dies, and he sleeps. There is no concept of events, time, people, God,, nothing. Basically I would say, based on the scripture, you would close your eyes and die, and in only in instant to you, you will wake right back up to eternal life or judgment. The Day of the Lord will be Jesus' return, at the sounding of the trump, and the first resurrection, for the saints (both dead and alive). This is not souls shedding there fleshy bodies, this is living physical man (a living soul) being changed to spiritual beings, and resurrected man being changed. Man is mortal until this moment of change, he is not a fleshy vessel housing an immortal soul. Then there will be the 1000 years of Christ's rule, when all who remained alive but were not saints will be taught the Truth, and the true government will be established. This is the time that Satan is bound, so that his deceitful influence will not keep us from knowing the real God. Then at the end of the thousand years, the rest of the dead are resurrected, and are also taught. This is how people who have never heard of God, never had a chance to know God and accept His ways, and never knew of the great sacrifice of Jesus (including those that died as babies, those secluded from the Word, those who were blind to the truth their entire life).. this is how they get their chance. (Some are called in life to know God, but most will not really know God until the resurrections. Each is called in his own time, and resurrected in their own time, according to God's plan.) Then Satan is released to try to influence them one last time (since all must be tested),, Those who accept the truth and repent will then receive everlasting life.. and there will be some that still refuse to repent and they will receive the second death, which is final. They are thrown into the lake of fire, and since they are still flesh, they burn up immediately, and that is when the cease to exist, and that is not reversible, this is the eternal punishment. Satan and his demons are spirit, so they are not destroyed in the lake of fire, but they are locked away there by God to be tormented forever for their great sins.

NOTE: Yes, I know that there are plenty of people that do not believe in the perfection of the scriptures. If anyone is going to tell me that some books don't count, or that the Bible contains errors and contradictions, or that other sources say completely different stuff, then I wouldn't argue with you. You would be in the right then... If the Bible is not perfect (in its original text), OT and NT alike, then I am wrong. I only state what I think based on what the Bible says.

mik

Scriptures to follow.... (there are so many)

 

[mikmik]

So let me ge this straight, do you go to heaven when die (if you are a good boy or girl), or are you "hanging around" awaiting the final ressurection? I think many Christians believe the former.

The scriptures...

Eccl 9.5 For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing,

1 Cor 15.20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.

James 1.18 Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures. (those called during this life)

Philippians 3:20-2120 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.;

1 Corinthians 15:44 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power.

1 Cor 11.30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. (have died)

John 5: 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth...

Daniel 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 11.12 Then His disciples said, “Lord, if he sleeps he will get well.” 13 However, Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about taking rest in sleep.

Acts 24:15 But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets. 15 I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.

Matt 7.13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. (Few are called in this life)

Acts 2:29 “Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. (has not floated up to heaven)

Act 3: 19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. 22 For Moses truly said to the fathers, ‘The LORD your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you. 23 And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’

1 Thessalonians 4.16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

1 Cor 15.51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep (die), but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

(Pretty much so all of Rev 20) 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power... vs 7Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth... vs 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God.. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them.... 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

There are more, but I am tired now!

mik

 

[crystalonyx]

Ressurection after 3 days was a very common theme among many god beliefs prior to and after Christianity came on the scene. I don't think all belevers of these religions are waiting around for the "final " ressurection.