South Park is erased in China

[Stevicus]

The point is China is getting tariffs they never got before and regardless of what China says, it is hurting them, more than us, and more than Canada. And it shows that not everyone in the West, as your posts have implied, is sucking up to China.

You are upset, at least in part, by a response from the NBA !?

As for the rest. noted, getting favored nation 1 year after 1989 was odd, but I still do not see the upset connected to South Park being banned 29 years later.

No, but it's connected to the Western Response, which is what you were asking about.

It's not just due to the NBA (although they're just the latest example), but it's the utter hypocrisy of it all - both on the part of the US and China.

And yes, I know that not everyone in the West is sucking up to China, but there's enough of a trend to cause some concern. At least enough to make one wonder whether today's leaders are as truly committed to freedom as they claim.

 

[Stevicus]

I answered "None of the above."

My position is that businesses should behave ethically.

This generally allows a company to do business in "less than free" countries and sometimes even with those country's governments.

Even people whose governments are oppressive need water treatment plants, cell phones, banking services, food, etc.

But where's the dividing line between countries we do business with versus those upon which we impose sanctions or calls for boycotts? Is there any particular standard we should go by?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

But where's the dividing line between countries we do business with versus those upon which we impose sanctions or calls for boycotts? Is there any particular standard we should go by?

Which "we" are you talking about? An individual or a business doesn't impose sanctions on a country; governments do that. Businesses then take those sanctions into account.

In terms of action at an individual or corporate level, sure, they could choose to boycott a government, but boycotting a country's government doesn't necessarily mean boycotting the people or businesses in that country.

Edit: regardless, the standard is normal ethics. As a business or individual, are you acting in a fair and responsible way? Are you respecting the rights and well-being of the people involved? If so, then what you're doing is probably okay.

 

[Shad]

Of course, this isn't really communist censorship, since US business owners, corporate execs, and other capitalists have all fallen all over themselves to tell us that China is capitalist now. Therefore, this is capitalist censorship, and it seems pretty clear that on both sides of the Pacific, capitalists love money more than freedom and democracy.*

Censorship was done due to communism not capitalism. Capitalism is amoral thus says nothing about censorship.

When can we expect Corporate America to organize a mass boycott against China? If the answer is "never," then that proves what I'm saying is true.

You knocked down a strawman, nothing more. You are not focusing on the individuals so you have nothing.

As to the poll question ("Should America do business with countries that are not considered 'free'?"), I would use Freedom House's standard for "free." Any country on this map that's not green is not considered "free" (yellow is "partly free" and purple is "not free")

It isn't up to the government but the individual.

 

[Shad]

I see a boycott as no different than economic sanctions.

There is a difference; individual vs state

 

[Shad]

To his credit, Trump is actually the first US leader in a long time to actually stand up to them (and even then, he seems kind of wishy-washy about it).

That is because he still does business with China. One of his companies under his son signed a 500M USD contract with China around 2016.

 

[Stevicus]

Some of the best hackers in the world, next to government-sponsored Russian ones? Live in China. I think you underestimate the Chinese young people. Don't compare these to the lazy, self-entitled Americans, who wouldn't know how to change a TV channel unless they had an app for that...

Well, you may be right about that. But these hackers in Russia and China - are they free thinkers, or are they working for their government?

It's always been an Open Joke-- it's a literal pacifier for their Base, who are too stupid to recognize pablum/placebo when they are fed it by their government.

I'm reminded of the old "this is your brain on drugs" commercial which was heavily lampooned.

Saving Face. It's all about Saving Face, here-- the paint and/or label becomes more important than the actual content. Content no longer matters-- only the Label matters.

Think Orwell's 1984, and the Ministry Of Truth.

If that's the case, you'd think they'd be a bit more savvy about it. In the US, we don't actively "censor" anything, but there are still ways of discouraging or preventing content deemed offensive or dangerous. Think of how many have been banned by Facebook, YouTube, etc., but that's not considered "censorship" as much as it's a lawful exercise in property rights. But the result is still pretty much the same.

Exactly what "face" are the Chinese trying to save here? They had been pushing for normalized relations with the West and have wanted to put forth the face of a "normal" country by Western standards. That's the face that they've been trying to show us all this time - even when it's pretty obvious that it's a false face.

So, if that's the "face" they're trying to "save," then do they really think it will work?

It's just like how China is notorious for making cheap knock-offs of brand name goods. It may fool the suckers, but if they think such a way of doing things is going to last over the long haul, then they're only fooling themselves.

It's a World Economy, and has been for sometime. China's principle "export"? Cheap labor-- with it having the largest concentration of workers in the world, and Chinese currency being weak to Western currencies? "Labor" was exported into China, who was happy to accept the income.

It's what you get with unregulated Capitalism-- cheap, exploitation of labor. Never forget the Capitalistic Utopia: Labor gets paid ZERO dollars, and Management has zero responsibilities.

It's always been a world economy. It was a world economy back in 1950 and long before that. But you were telling of a situation which painted the US as some kind of permanent dependency of China. I don't think we should have put ourselves in that kind of bind. That was a bad choice our leaders made.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Well, you may be right about that. But these hackers in Russia and China - are they free thinkers, or are they working for their government?



I'm reminded of the old "this is your brain on drugs" commercial which was heavily lampooned.



If that's the case, you'd think they'd be a bit more savvy about it. In the US, we don't actively "censor" anything, but there are still ways of discouraging or preventing content deemed offensive or dangerous. Think of how many have been banned by Facebook, YouTube, etc., but that's not considered "censorship" as much as it's a lawful exercise in property rights. But the result is still pretty much the same.

Exactly what "face" are the Chinese trying to save here? They had been pushing for normalized relations with the West and have wanted to put forth the face of a "normal" country by Western standards. That's the face that they've been trying to show us all this time - even when it's pretty obvious that it's a false face.

So, if that's the "face" they're trying to "save," then do they really think it will work?

It's just like how China is notorious for making cheap knock-offs of brand name goods. It may fool the suckers, but if they think such a way of doing things is going to last over the long haul, then they're only fooling themselves.



It's always been a world economy. It was a world economy back in 1950 and long before that. But you were telling of a situation which painted the US as some kind of permanent dependency of China. I don't think we should have put ourselves in that kind of bind. That was a bad choice our leaders made.

I agree to 100%-- the US is way, WAY too dependent on Chinese Labor (how ever it is spelled out).

Back in the day? Computer chips were created and made HERE. Not... anymore.

Even the most advanced processors are manufactured in China.... supposedly to the proper specs of the original chip-creator, but...

Back doors in router chips? Yeah.... it's a thing. Large scale chip manufacturing isn't in the US any more, and hasn't been for a while.

A grave mistake, IMO. We couldn't replace that capacity easily, now... and nobody-- neither party-- seems interested in even trying...!

If the US manages to really p888ss off China? We'd be screwed 9 ways to Sunday...

... just try making anything with electronics without Chinese chips in them.... ! From freezers to airplanes to autos, to trains to electric turnip-twaddler! All contain Chinese product...