Space will remain the final frontier, I think;

[Runewolf1973]

Okay our descendants have warp-drive, and worm-hole com/nav, and force-field protection, and artificial gravity with inertia dampening, and fusion reactors, and nanotech and AI, and genetic-engineering, but we've polluted the environment and depleted our resources to the point that Earth is unlivable. We would still have the problem of getting billions of people off Earth. Some would survive. Most would perish. Probably would be better to deal with the problem of making the Earth more livable.

For now that should be our Plan A, but it doesn't hurt to have a Plan B.

 

[LuisDantas]

Probably would be better to deal with the problem of making the Earth more livable.

Indeed. We have not really learned to deal with pollution or energy sources, yet so many people just expect us to at some point learn how to colonize other planets - when there is no reasonable way of even reaching any, let alone finding one that can be lived on.

I just don't understand why there are people who believe in that.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

We can never hope to more than seed space.
very few will ever leave earth.
as a race we are doomed as a species on earth.
however it will be a very long time before it will be critical

 

[Cardboard]

Okay our descendants have warp-drive, and worm-hole com/nav, and force-field protection, and artificial gravity with inertia dampening, and fusion reactors, and nanotech and AI, and genetic-engineering, but we've polluted the environment and depleted our resources to the point that Earth is unlivable. We would still have the problem of getting billions of people off Earth. Some would survive. Most would perish. Probably would be better to deal with the problem of making the Earth more livable.

Got it, lets say we go your route, by some miracle we make it for the next 1000 years, we have solved our entire over population problems and environmental issues; we have basically become symbiotic with the earth and ourselves. Then……… the massive solar flair, unexpected comet, asteroid, or plague. wipes us out, where has that gotten us? Extinct, that’s where.

None of those issues will matter, none of it, if our species is destroyed. Yes we must find solutions to our environmental impact, social, political issues and population issues, But what does it matter if our planet is destroys by what ever of the numerous things that could wipe us out.

I do agree we should address these environmental and socioeconomic issues first if only to give us, as a species time to discover and find a way to colonize other planets, but this should always be our goal, it should always be what we strive for ultimately.

 

[Cardboard]

I just don't understand why there are people who believe in that.

December 17th 1903, People just could not see how a person could fly, many people mocked them.

October 4th 1957, people could not believe and were amazed that a man -made satellite was orbiting earth for the first time.

So many others, Testla, Edison ect, ect, but is all the same, people that think they know all possibilities so much so that they exclude all other possibilities only exclude their own possibilities and potential. And ultimately, they only succeed in showing how wrong they were in the first place.

 

[illykitty]

So, we will never get all our social issues perfect, probably never be a utopian society, the physics problem, we must overcome or work around, quantum theory is trying right now.

Not utopian but I think we can do so much better than have billions starving, dying everyday... Inequality rising in many places. Rich owning more and more of the planet and doing as they please with it. Polluted and abused environment, treating the planet like a giant disposable trashcan when it's our only home. We still hold on to so many outdated ideas. Is this the best we can do? Is something better considered a delusion or utopic?

And we think that these "qualities" should colonise other places too? I'm not saying I don't want it to happen, just that imo, it's perhaps more important to focus on Earth for now. What if we get to another planet... We'll trash it too? Same issues arise?

What's the point of that? If we want to survive, we need to learn to take better care of all of us and the planet first. It'll just repeat otherwise.

 

[Cardboard]

What's the point of that? If we want to survive, we need to learn to take better care of all of us and the planet first. It'll just repeat otherwise.

The point is survival. And although trying to get everything fixed as to not be a burden on the next world is ideal, we just may not have enough time. We must start now. And focusing only on improvements in environmentalism and social issues is not what we need to do. (Insert eggs in one basket analogy here)

 

[kashmir]

Even if it were 100% plausible to fit everyone on a huge ship and just travel the universe in search of new land, its completely pointless.

Most of us were taught at a very early age that running from your problems does not work.
No more than trying to out run your shadow would.

I have seen many people online thinking science will figure out what to do to fix the planet, so its business as usual, even science continues to produce toxic wastes and store it in empty warehouses, after all someday it may turn into fuel or something useful, but we wont be here, let "them" worry about it, we will be dead.
I think the Indians were the only smart ones who realized their wastes had to be dealt with properly.

That idea is long gone, don't matter.

I pity the future toddlers and their kid's-kids.
If we even make it that far.
Clean water alone will be a valuable thing, prob even showers will become a thing "they used to do"
We know full well about global warming, not a thing is being done.
Nothing.
I think the only thing of importance, is getting to Mars, a planet not even fit for life, but will make for great PPV TV.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

There are no sure bets but, that said, I bet on humanity.

 

[illykitty]

The point is survival. And although trying to get everything fixed as to not be a burden on the next world is ideal, we just may not have enough time. We must start now. And focusing only on improvements in environmentalism and social issues is not what we need to do. (Insert eggs in one basket analogy here)

I believe we can fix things, revamp our society, before we need to move. I'm not only talking about environment and social issues, but much more than that. I've got unconventional (for now, though still shared by millions) views about it. It's much too large of a topic though and I'm not good at explaining things.

I just don't see the point of sending humans to some planet to keep humanity surviving, if we can't even improve ourselves and save our planet. Imo, it's running away from the problems and not even attempting to fix things. I don't agree it being the only solution.

 

[illykitty]

I have seen many people online thinking science will figure out what to do to fix the planet, so its business as usual, even science continues to produce toxic wastes and store it in empty warehouses, after all someday it may turn into fuel or something useful, but we wont be here, let "them" worry about it, we will be dead.
I think the Indians were the only smart ones who realized their wastes had to be dealt with properly.

That idea is long gone, don't matter.

I pity the future toddlers and their kid's-kids.
If we even make it that far.
Clean water alone will be a valuable thing, prob even showers will become a thing "they used to do"
We know full well about global warming, not a thing is being done.
Nothing.
I think the only thing of importance, is getting to Mars, a planet not even fit for life, but will make for great PPV TV.

Science will figure things out, the reason it is used for bad things is because of the way our society is. We already have so much green tech not utilised. We have many things that are being held back because it's not profitable... Then the solution is clear to me.

Also, I think people overestimate the amount of time in which damage will occur, I think someone my age (24) will see big changes in the world. It's scary. But I try to keep hope that we'll make it through it, have a revolution and try to reverse the damage.

 

[LuisDantas]

We can never hope to more than seed space.
very few will ever leave earth.
as a race we are doomed as a species on earth.
however it will be a very long time before it will be critical

Define "a very long time". My best bet is about 60 to 100 years.

 

[LuisDantas]

December 17th 1903, People just could not see how a person could fly, many people mocked them.

October 4th 1957, people could not believe and were amazed that a man -made satellite was orbiting earth for the first time.

So many others, Testla, Edison ect, ect, but is all the same, people that think they know all possibilities so much so that they exclude all other possibilities only exclude their own possibilities and potential. And ultimately, they only succeed in showing how wrong they were in the first place.

Quite frankly, betting on such a huge speculation that goes counter to every available scientific knowledge is reckless at best.

 

[LuisDantas]

There are no sure bets but, that said, I bet on humanity.

There are at least two ways of interpreting that in the context of this thread.

Are you betting that humanity will learn to exist on Earth for a long time without essentially destroying itself and/or the planet?

Or are you instead betting that it will somehow manage to reach some other place and survive there?

Or is it some third option?

 

[Cardboard]

Quite frankly, betting on such a huge speculation that goes counter to every available scientific knowledge is reckless at best.

It may be reckless, but it the only shot, ultimately that we have, as a species.

I have to say, I do not agree with you assertion that is goes against every scientific knowledge we have, We are just opening our eyes as a species, we are barely on the edge of what quantum theory has in store for us, and what we may be able to do with those discoveries, let alone what will come after.

If you are correct that we only have 60-100 years, then all of this is a moot point, isn’t it. I’m not much on Nihilistic beliefs though.

 

[Revoltingest]

Technology rarely solves fundamental problems, but it often creates new problems.
If we don't like our lot on this planet, expanding/moving elsewhere won't cure it.
We need to deal with what we have.

 

[kashmir]

Science will figure things out, the reason it is used for bad things is because of the way our society is. We already have so much green tech not utilised. We have many things that are being held back because it's not profitable... Then the solution is clear to me.

Also, I think people overestimate the amount of time in which damage will occur, I think someone my age (24) will see big changes in the world. It's scary. But I try to keep hope that we'll make it through it, have a revolution and try to reverse the damage.

In USA, all the small states like NY< NJ<MA<CN, already used up their places to put garbage, many years ago and it is shipped out of state, to OHIO.
They already said global warning is not reversible, guessing 100 yrs (not sure till what happens)
We knew for the last 50 years "it might be a problem"

There is no solution because we have no clue what awaits us, so there is nothing to prepare for, it will take complete failure of everything, before anything will be done.

BTW, 3rd world countries have completely ruined their water supply, which is feeding into our water supply, our very natural way of life is what is that is going to blow up in our faces.

The world is like those 900 lb people, who cant get off the bed.
Every day, they said "I will diet tomorrow" and now are bed ridden and will never get up again.

Even you said that science will figure it out.
Science uses science to figure it out, so from day one, they knew that the very first barrel of toxic wastes was un-disposable.
It is not "science will figure it out"
It will be "nature will finally beothslap us" and will come crumbling down.

Do you know that there is a super computer that science uses to figure stuff out that has to be cooled?

According to Amazon&#8217;s James Hamilton, a 15MW data center could guzzle up to 360,000 gallons of water per day. The U.S. National Security Agency&#8217;s data center in Utah would require up to 1.7 million gallons of water per day, enough to satiate over 10,000 households&#8217; water needs.

One computer alone, uses 1.7 million gallons a day.
they are all over the world now.

Does these supercomputers tell them that, ehhh, ummm, it doesn't rain that much to replace all that water you are using up?

Btw, using up all the fossil fuels first, before figuring it out, is not exactly figuring anything out.
Its called human greed and THAT is what will destroy us.
Figuring it out, does not mean use up everything, then oh my, now what do we do?

 

[Awkward Fingers]

There are no sure bets but, that said, I bet on humanity.

What's the timeline on that bet..
I mean, eventually, everything ends..no mater how far you run.

Someday it will be game over

 

[columbus]

Define "a very long time". My best bet is about 60 to 100 years.

If it were only biosphere and resources you might be right. But I don't think it is that far out.
I think we'll do ourselves in much sooner than that, with a giant war. In fact I think it has already started. What we rich folks refer to as terrorism is the worlds poor acquiring teeth.

The billions of people with no hope won't just quietly die the way they used to do. A few will be willing and able to bring down the unsustainable culture and infrastructure we depend on.

Tom

 

[BSM1]

[What we rich folks refer to as terrorism is the worlds poor acquiring teeth.

So you're saying that some fanatic blowing up innocent women and children as they shop for their meager needs is just sticking it to the 'evil rich'?