Speaking in tongues

[I Keep Unicorns]

I will explain my opinion of those who speak in tongues, in the language of tongues:

Joliesatina frileejia snell charten blibberdy flub hillenstefian zarlonisque golinsenzian.












Translation: It's complete delusional nonsense.

 

[jmvizanko]

Also, if Borat can do it just as convincingly as actual practitioners, I think its obviously a load of crap. Unless Borat was caught up seriously in it temporarily...

 

[AxisMundi]

1. Do you believe it's a sign of baptism in the Holy Spirit? Why or why not?

There are recorded cases of the phenomina of stigmata, ie blood seeping through the skin pours on the forehead, hands, and feet. Unfortunatly, crucifixion occurs in the wrists and ankles. One's own weight would drag the nails through the weaker structures of the hands and feet.

2. Is it a real language (or languages)?

Linguists, both Atheist and religious, have examined recordings of people "speaking in tongues". There are no resemblances to language whatsoever. Any language, even some "divine language man wasn't meant to understand", must have some form of linguistic structure. "Speaking in tongues" is nothing more than gibberish.

3. Do other religions speak in tongues?

As far as I know,it is purely a Christian phenimona, at least in practice.

4. What other explanations are there for it?

As with the stigmata examples above, it is purely self-delusional manifestations.

 

[horntooth]

1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak in other languages, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
...
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own language, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our languages


if this were to happen today, this would be the proof that christianity is true.
but since the only claim of "glossolalia" is from pentecostal groups- which exhibit nothing similar to that which is described here in the Book of Acts, well, bummer...

 

[TEXASBULL]

1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak in other languages, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
...
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own language, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our languages


if this were to happen today, this would be the proof that christianity is true.
but since the only claim of "glossolalia" is from pentecostal groups- which exhibit nothing similar to that which is described here in the Book of Acts, well, bummer...

As one who used to speak in tongues, I can give my answer we used.

In Acts, it was just ONE form of the Manifestation , but Paul clearly states here.

1 cor 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

we see tongues as talking directly to God. NO MAN understands but we speak DIRECTLY to god in a heavenly language.

If tongues in the bible will always have a translation, why did Paul say " No Man" will understand what the person is saying?

( side note: I am not a believer anymore, but I do know this subject)

 

[horntooth]

actually, Paul wrote:

9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret (translate).
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
16 Else when thou shall bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupies the room of the unlearned say Amen at your giving of thanks, seeing he understands not what you say?

really, how? because "amen" means- may it be so.
another verse:

19 In the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

and of course:

27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence

so, basically- Paul said here: if someone starts "talking in tongues" but there's no one that understands him- he should kindly shut the f* up.

 

[TEXASBULL]

actually, Paul wrote:

9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret (translate).
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
16 Else when thou shall bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupies the room of the unlearned say Amen at your giving of thanks, seeing he understands not what you say?

really, how? because "amen" means- may it be so.
another verse:

19 In the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

and of course:

27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence

so, basically- Paul said here: if someone starts "talking in tongues" but there's no one that understands him- he should kindly shut the f* up.

Correct, Paul say's He will " pray in the spirit". ( tongues) and pray in where he understands also.

In the other verse's he is talking about prophesying witch is totally different than praying in tongues. when you prophesy in tongues there should always be an interpretation, but praying in tongues (spirit) needs no interpretation because you are speaking directly to God.

Paul was the main one who said " I will Pray in the Spirit, and I will pray in my own understanding language also". Paul was a holy roller!:faint:

 

[gnostic]

and of course:

27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence

so, basically- Paul said here: if someone starts "talking in tongues" but there's no one that understands him- he should kindly shut the f* up.

I just love the last part. :biglaugh:

Here, have some frubals.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

As one who used to speak in tongues, I can give my answer we used.
In Acts, it was just ONE form of the Manifestation , but Paul clearly states here.
1 cor 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
we see tongues as talking directly to God. NO MAN understands but we speak DIRECTLY to god in a heavenly language.
If tongues in the bible will always have a translation, why did Paul say " No Man" will understand what the person is saying?
( side note: I am not a believer anymore, but I do know this subject)

If one continues reading in chapter 14 verse 22 mentions tongues are for those that believe not. Then Paul goes on to say in verses 27,28 there should be one to interpret or keep silent. Paul already wrote at 1 Cor 13v8 that tongues would cease. Cease with the death of the apostles.
'Tongues' were a temporary arrangement for 1st-Century Christians.

The gathering at Pentecost was large with people speaking many different languages. The 'tongues' referred to at Acts [2v6,11 B] would be talking about people being able to understand what was being spoken about the wonderful works of God in their own 'mother tongue' or language.
In other words, the crowds could understand right away in their own language and take the message of the good news of God's kingdom back to their home and convey that message to others speaking their same language so that they understood what was learned at Jerusalem, thus help the infant first-century Christianity get off to a fast start in spreading the good news.

Acts [2vs 17,18] has the setting, not in the 1st century, but now for our day or these last days of badness on earth [2nd Tim 3vs1-5,13].
Please notice instead of tongues or instant understanding in one's own mother tongue, but rather the word 'prophecy' is now used.
Not meaning 'new prophecy' but telling others or explaining about already recorded prophecy. [Matt 24v14]. Or, as Zephaniah [3v9] says a pure language. Pure in the sense that each person if desired could understand and speak pure Biblical truth to others. Not by instant translation, but by either speaking to others of the same language, or learning another's language [mother tongue] so the good news of God's kingdom could be proclaimed world wide or on a global scale before the end times of badness on earth comes before Jesus ushers in Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill.

 

[TEXASBULL]

I

f one continues reading in chapter 14 verse 22 mentions tongues are for those that believe not. Then Paul goes on to say in verses 27,28 there should be one to interpret or keep silent. Paul already wrote at 1 Cor 13v8 that tongues would cease. Cease with the death of the apostles.
'Tongues' were a temporary arrangement for 1st-Century Christians.

Correct, tongues are a " sign" to the unbeliever. See my answer above about an interpreter. I already said this is for prophesy only and not PRAYING in tongues. As for 1 cor. 13:8, this is the general scripture that the churches who don't speak in tongues use as an excuse. The "death of the apostles" is just a traditional teaching and not mention. Paul said " gifts will cease and we shall know all things". When do we " know all things". today? i don't think so. we won't know all thing until heaven, so until then, we still have ALL the gifts, including TONGUES.

The gathering at Pentecost was large with people speaking many different languages. The 'tongues' referred to at Acts [2v6,11 B] would be talking about people being able to understand what was being spoken about the wonderful works of God in their own 'mother tongue' or language.
In other words, the crowds could understand right away in their own language and take the message of the good news of God's kingdom back to their home and convey that message to others speaking their same language so that they understood what was learned at Jerusalem, thus help the infant first-century Christianity get off to a fast start in spreading the good news.

You are correct again, but this was only one example of tongues. what about this?ACTS 10 44While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.


Did they all start speaking German? Or where they " magnifying God in a heavenly language no man understands"?
what about this? Acts 19

1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.




Paul laid his hand on people who all spoke the same language here. Did they need to start speaking Spanish? No, they started speaking the language that "NO MAN" understands. according to 1st. cor.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Won't we always keep learning about our Creator no matter how long we live?

Do the sheep-like ones of Matthew 25v32 go to heaven or is everlasting life on earth held out for them?

 

[TEXASBULL]

Won't we always keep learning about our Creator no matter how long we live?

Do the sheep-like ones of Matthew 25v32 go to heaven or is everlasting life on earth held out for them?

Don't know what this has to do with the tongues debate, but the answer is no. There is no creator , heaven , or a scientific law has never been broken ( miracle)

 

[horntooth]

when you prophesy in tongues there should always be an interpretation, but praying in tongues (spirit) needs no interpretation because you are speaking directly to God.

are you unable to read or what?
Paul says that if he prays in an unknown language, than his prayer is unfruitful.

 

[TEXASBULL]

are you unable to read or what?
Paul says that if he prays in an unknown language, than his prayer is unfruitful.

Are you unable to read? He said his UNDERSTANDING is unfruitful , not his prayer. His prayer goes direct to god as we already discussed.

14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

WHAT IS IT THEN? I will pray with the SPIRIT ( tongues) AND and in my own understanding ( his language ) ALSO

Paul does BOTH. So do millions of other Christians today who pray in tongues.

 

[horntooth]

Paul does BOTH. So do millions of other Christians today who pray in tongues.

yes, he does both. because if do only the "unknown language" and there's no understanding, that's unfruitful.

 

[Blackdog22]

I have 2 things to say. First the statement made by Texas.

"In the other verse's he is talking about prophesying witch is totally different than praying in tongues. when you prophesy in tongues there should always be an interpretation, but praying in tongues (spirit) needs no interpretation because you are speaking directly to God."

Pauls just says if any man speak in an Unknown language. What leads Christians to the assumption he only means prophesy?


Secondly. It is kind of a shame that there are apparently 2 tongues in the Bible, but it appears the only one of any use is broken. I have yet to see any Christian walk into a random tribe without any knowledge of there language, and just start speaking amazing verses that blow the tribes mind, and cause them to fall before God, and worship him. The other language, the jibberish one that even Borat can mimick perfectly is so much less impressive it might as well not exist. It is just more embarrassing then helpful.

Maybe the Bible will come through on one promise of proof someday. The walking on water,moving mountains, cool multilingual tongues, genie factor, immune to poison, never stumping your toe, second coming, Armageddon, doing greater things than Jesus. Pretty much every possible proof the Bible offers has been proven to be false thus far. Kinda sucks.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

When Jesus was talking about doing greater things than he did Jesus was talking about his preaching and teaching work. see: Matt 28vs19,20;24v14

Jesus only went to a limited number of people whereas the assignment he gave to his followers was to take his teaching and preaching message about the good news of God's kingdom to a grand scale or earth-wide scale until the end times of badness on earth comes to an end.

How has 2nd Timothy 3 vs1-5,13 proven false?

 

[javajo]

I believe tongues were a confirming, or sign gift, and they died out historically before the 2nd century. I believe it ties in with us having the whole revelation of God in the Bible so now these sign/confirming gifts have ceased. So, what they do now in the churches I do not believe to be tongues. Perhaps in some places a possessed person may speak in tongues, I dunno.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Are you unable to read? He said his UNDERSTANDING is unfruitful , not his prayer. His prayer goes direct to god as we already discussed.

14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

WHAT IS IT THEN? I will pray with the SPIRIT ( tongues) AND and in my own understanding ( his language ) ALSO

Paul does BOTH. So do millions of other Christians today who pray in tongues.

What exactly is the point of praying to God if you don't even know what you're saying?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Are you unable to read? He said his UNDERSTANDING is unfruitful , not his prayer. His prayer goes direct to god as we already discussed.
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
WHAT IS IT THEN? I will pray with the SPIRIT ( tongues) AND and in my own understanding ( his language ) ALSO
Paul does BOTH. So do millions of other Christians today who pray in tongues.

First of all, doesn't Paul say at 1st Cor 14v9 that if one utters by tongue words Not easy to understand, than it would be as if speaking into the air?
Or, as 1Cor 9v26 mentions do not be as one beating the air.

Paul already stated at 1st Cor 13v8 that: tongues will cease.
Once the first-century congregation was established there was no need for an instant translating into another's mother tongue or language- Acts 2v6-8

We now have the complete Bible which is perfect for all things according to 2nd Tim 3vs16,17 that the man of God is fully competent through Scripture.

In connection to prayer Paul wrote at Romans 8v26,27 that if we know not we should pray for as we ought, then God's spirit takes over for us because God searches our hearts.