Special Pleading and the Problem of Evil

[F1fan]

Exactly, you don't want it. God can prove himself to you. I believe that. I don't worry about it. Enough said.

What does me not wanting to believe in a god have anything to do whether any version exists or not? I’m not interested in being religious. I observe the mental gymnastics involved in those attempting their beliefs and isn’t appealing to me.

I agree. Belief can be either probable or not so probable. That's part of the reason why faith is logical when combined with experience which is a kind of evidence.

So explain why so many theists disagree with each other. If faith works and there’s adequate evidence why so many different conclusions? Why do atheists point out how the evidence is weak and subjective?

Okay first of all; you should use better examples because Mickey Mouse is a known fictional character and we can prove that. Or is it that you are claiming that you do somehow know God is a fictional character? Then in that case I think you're using special pleading.

There are about 4000 god concepts in human lore and none correlates to anything that observed as real. Thus far these concepts are in the category of imaginary characters and not real, actual phenomena.

So if im unfairly assessing god concepts then explain my error. Use facts.

 

[F1fan]

I'm sure you also enjoy wallowing in your ignorant belief that all that exists is material and there is no supernatural dimension. I ask, prove your atheism infallible. You can't, because it's WRONG!

Not that I believe in God. I know in God.

Not that I'm a theist. A more accurate term would be metaphysical scientist.

Oh, and I've actually experienced and sensed that dimension objectively.

Calm down.

Now demonstrate all your claims are true objectively. Im not convinced you’re correct.

 

[1213]

Yet God is good AND evil, so wouldn't knowing God mean they already knew evil?

I don’t see any reason to think God is evil. Please explain why do you think so?

...The Creator couldn't just create people as they are post Eden Since it was all a set up anyway?

Knowing evil like we now can know can be painful. I believe God wanted to spare us from that pain, which is why we were created like Bible tells.

 

[Ostronomos]

There are about 4000 god concepts in human lore and none correlates to anything that observed as real. Thus far these concepts are in the category of imaginary characters and not real, actual phenomena.

So if im unfairly assessing god concepts then explain my error. Use facts.

No doubt atheists have little grasp of reality. Their meaningless existences speaks volumes about their defiance of ultimate truth.

 

[Ostronomos]

Calm down.

Now demonstrate all your claims are true objectively. Im not convinced you’re correct.

I'm working on it. Rest assured in due time I will. Please see my posts in Philosophy.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

A child's cancer is a test. It is a test to the parents. It is a sign to mankind that should remind you that you are not in control. That despite all your knowledge, you just can't cure cancer unless God wills it. We are inherently weak, needy and ignorant. Your child dying slowly of cancer in the hands of the world's best doctors should make you think a little.

This is so disturbingly shocking.
The god you believe in, is an absolute monster.

 

[night912]

No doubt atheists have little grasp of reality. Their meaningless existences speaks volumes about their defiance of ultimate truth.

Please do tell, what is a meaningful existence?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Indeed it would.

 

[F1fan]

Exactly, you don't want it. God can prove himself to you. I believe that. I don't worry about it. Enough said.

You believe your side of God can prove itself? Kinda odd that it doesn't. How hard is it for a God to show itself?

Someone could always argue "What if it's all in your head?" People can always find reasons to doubt anything. That's why I say I have faith God exists. I can point to miracles or answered prayers or anything; but people may come up with questions about that too. It's all about what convinces me individually or you individually. I've said I know God but it still takes faith.

What test in reality do you use to make sure your religious beliefs aren't just self-deception and illusion? I'm curious to see your rigid and objective process that weeds out ll doubt.

You're ultimately in this world alone. Everyone is alone with God. God reveals himself to whomever he chooses.

Yup. Alone with 7.5 billion people looking over our shoulder.

Since you keep asking me to prove God's existence I'll just say the best I could do for you is pray for you that God would reveal himself to you; if you wanted me to. But I'm not here to prove God. I'm not here for anything but what I originally said. The world is blind and so it can't see God. The problem is not proof or evidence but blindness of heart.

Well your pryer failed. Now what? You have nothing to concince me, so how were you ever convinced? Did you just adopt what others around you said they believed?

Sure, but faith can also be rewarded with truth if it was well placed. People should see results so their faith grows stronger through experience. That's how they know they really found God.

Or they have learned to deepen the illusion of truth as they discover their littles tests fail. Wouldn't it be sad to concede you've been a believer all these years for nothing?

I was speaking of people who question their own conclusions endlessly. They get stuck and they don't accomplish anything. But there are also people who are over certain about everything. It's best to walk a fine line.

You don't seem to be taking this advice. Atheists do question. We listen to believers. But like in your example you provide no evidence or argument. Your best effort was prayer. It's as if you know you have no reason to believe, but have committed so long you're just stuck in the pattern of devotion. At least atheists aren't involved in the mental and emotional trap.

 

[F1fan]

I don’t see any reason to think God is evil. Please explain why do you think so?

Well if God is the creator where did evil come from? Heck, even the Bible says God is both good and evil. Plus, take a look at the Old Testament and see how God murders almost the whole planet to fix a problem it created in the first place. Evil, or incompetent, or both?

Knowing evil like we now can know can be painful. I believe God wanted to spare us from that pain, which is why we were created like Bible tells.

Yes, it's what you believe. And none of this makes sense to a rational and compassionate mind.

The world is exactly as the bible God created. The buck stops there.

 

[F1fan]

No doubt atheists have little grasp of reality. Their meaningless existences speaks volumes about their defiance of ultimate truth.

It's those damn facts and that pesky reason that leads atheists to understanding that can't grasp reality, you mean?

Explain the reality that atheists can't grasp. And be sure to use facts and reason to demonstrate to everyone that you are correct and not just making an emotional outburst.

 

[F1fan]

I'm working on it. Rest assured in due time I will. Please see my posts in Philosophy.

Self-awareness is a huge victory.

 

[Jos]

The teachings of many and wisdom traditions (non-dual Hinduism, Theosophy, etc.) claiming masters with deeper insights into the nature of reality and Consciousness/God/Brahman.

This can not be proven through the physical senses if that is your next question.

Physical senses are all we seem to have though, so if it can't be proven through them, then I don't know how it can be proven. But that's off topic, best to leave it there.

 

[George-ananda]

Physical senses are all we seem to have though, so if it can't be proven through them, then I don't know how it can be proven. But that's off topic, best to leave it there.

But I'll add that there are psychic senses beyond the physical that can observe greater depth to reality than the physical senses.

 

[F1fan]

But I'll add that there are psychic senses beyond the physical that can observe greater depth to reality than the physical senses.

Interesting. I've asked theists who claim to know the God exists if they have this knowledge through extra sensory perception and/or some special psychic abilities and none have ever claimed they do.

So expand on your claim here about these psychic senses, and how we test for their credibility and reliability.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Exactly, you don't want it. God can prove himself to you. I believe that. I don't worry about it. Enough said.

It isn't so much about God proving himself to anyone as it is about you showing that your beliefs aren't nonsense.

(Though I think it's very understandable when theists blur the line between themselves and their gods)

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No doubt atheists have little grasp of reality. Their meaningless existences speaks volumes about their defiance of ultimate truth.

If you actually believe this - i.e. if you think that belief in God is the only thing that can give life meaning - then I pity you.

 

[George-ananda]

Interesting. I've asked theists who claim to know the God exists if they have this knowledge through extra sensory perception and/or some special psychic abilities and none have ever claimed they do.

So expand on your claim here about these psychic senses, and how we test for their credibility and reliability.

What I was getting at was insight into reality more subtle than the physical plane we are familiar with. For example, we have etheric, astral, mental, bodies interpenetrating our physical bodies. These subtle bodies have senses that the more gifted (clairvoyants) can bring to conscious attention to tell us about more than the physical plane of reality.

Almost by definition these things cannot be confirmed by the physical senses and instruments available to mainstream science at this time. These things are best evidenced by consistent reporting of the experiencers and paranormal phenomena that suggests a reality beyond the physical senses and instruments. Vedic (Hindu) and Theosophical and other wisdom traditions have mapped these things in considerable detail.

 

[74x12]

It isn't so much about God proving himself to anyone as it is about you showing that your beliefs aren't nonsense.

Yeah, I don't care. You aren't sincerely interested. I think the same about atheism honestly.

 

[1213]

Well if God is the creator where did evil come from? ...

Evil is really nothing, it is like darkness or emptiness, nothing really. It is same as lack of good. God gave people chance to reject Him and all good. And when good is rejected, there is evil remaining, because evilness is the void that is left when good is not present.

even the Bible says God is both good and evil...

Please show the scripture?

....Plus, take a look at the Old Testament and see how God murders almost the whole planet to fix a problem it created in the first place. Evil, or incompetent, or both?
...

Firstly, murder is unlawful killing. God is not murderer, because He has right to kill. And He has that right, because He has given life, which is why He can also decide how long life He gives. (Humans don’t give life). And, when good kills evil people who would make life eternal suffering for all, if they could live forever, I don’t think it is evil from God. And I think it would be unloving to not give this life also for those who choose evil. Therefore, God is not evil, God is extremely good. Also, God is not incompetent, He is extremely good, because He gives the chance to reject Him.