Spiritual and Religious, but not a "believer"

[Karolina]

Maybe you all can help me figure out what I'm looking for. I consider myself religious in that I participate regularly in the public and private worship of my faith tradition and gain spiritual benefit from so doing. I use the associated terminology and artifacts of the religion, but not necessarily in the way they are meant to be utilized or understood.

I am also spiritual in that I intuit God's presence (most especially in nature) and find myself philosophizing a lot. However, I do not "believe" that "my religion is literally true". I believe it's a beautiful metaphor, and when I spend the time reflecting on the deeper meanings of things my church teaches as "fact", I can see their "Truth" without necessarily believing the literalness of the surface meaning.

I do not want to change churches/religions bc that's not the point. I like the rituals of my own tradition. I just find it hard to have meaningful conversations on spiritual subjects with people from my own faith tradition because, well, they take things too literally and often I have to censor myself to not let the proverbial cat out of the bag that I'm one of those apostates or heretics! (Like when I'm "warned" not to do Yoga.)

I'm not sure how to mingle with generically SBNR folks, bc I think there are way too many subcategories of that identity. Many are not aligned with my views (various new-age beliefs and certain far-leaning political views), so we don't see eye to eye. I think I'm also looked at with suspicion because I am religious on the surface.

I need to discover the vocabulary to define what I'm talking about so I can better search for likeminded individuals. That's where you lovely people come in

To sum up - I believe in one, personal, transendent and benevolent God, and I believe in eternal life. I do not know any further details of either, and I don't really like what my religion offers up. I enjoy yoga, Tai-Chi, meditation/contemplation/mindfulness. I've done past life regressions though I'm very skeptical. I try to follow the moral imperatives taught and lived out by Jesus of Nazareth. I enjoy the liturgy of Byzentine Christianity (both Orthodox and Catholic, though I only commune with the Catholics as I "am" Catholic). I read the Bible and enjoy various Christian music, both traditional hymns, chants, and modern. Lately I've been trying to figure out where the line is between my spirituality and my politics, as that has recently shifted quite a bit.

Thoughts?

And if I sound like your kind of weirdo, send me a PM!

 

[SalixIncendium]

I don't sensor myself because I have no fear of being judged. So I never had the need to discover a vocabulary. In my experience, people will judge me regardless of whether or not they're likeminded.

That said, I don't talk about my religious/personal views unless asked. They are not what defines me. What defines me are my actions resulting from them.

 

[PureX]

I think we have to take other people as they are. They often think and feel more than they are able or willing to articulate. While others get caught up in black/white thinking and can't see past it. In the end we are all similar, and yet all unique.

The judgers are gonna judge. But that doesn't matter so long as you know you're being true and honest with yourself. I'm pretty sure the Bible will say that their judgments will only end up falling on their own heads. So say a prayer for them and hope they find a way to rise above it.

 

[Heyo]

To sum up - I believe in one, personal, transendent and benevolent God, and I believe in eternal life.

So, you do believe. In my book that makes you a believer.

 

[Whateverist]

To sum up - I believe in one, personal, transendent and benevolent God, and I believe in eternal life.

I was with you up to here and if that works for you, viva la difference. But I like your openness to nature and experience and avoidance of dogmatic answers. Carry on.

As for me, I had trouble with the poll so I didn’t answer it. I’m ambivalent about “spiritual” though some would say I am. I think of it as essentially escapist, seeking to look down on life from a remote height, where life can barely take hold. I do like getting the wider view but I also like my feet on the ground surrounded by rampant growing plants and winged life.

I don’t understand creedal belief or obsession with doctrine so I am not a believer. And yet I have robust faith in the flowing cosmos which has given rise to life and consciousness and values. I just don’t think denotative language is a good enough vessel for truth. Poetry is better.

Okay I’ll just get back up on my fence now.

 

[ChristineM]

You missed neither religious or spiritual but probably not what you are looking for

 

[Schwarzweg]

Maybe you all can help me figure out what I'm looking for. I consider myself religious in that I participate regularly in the public and private worship of my faith tradition and gain spiritual benefit from so doing. I use the associated terminology and artifacts of the religion, but not necessarily in the way they are meant to be utilized or understood.

I am also spiritual in that I intuit God's presence (most especially in nature) and find myself philosophizing a lot. However, I do not "believe" that "my religion is literally true". I believe it's a beautiful metaphor, and when I spend the time reflecting on the deeper meanings of things my church teaches as "fact", I can see their "Truth" without necessarily believing the literalness of the surface meaning.

I do not want to change churches/religions bc that's not the point. I like the rituals of my own tradition. I just find it hard to have meaningful conversations on spiritual subjects with people from my own faith tradition because, well, they take things too literally and often I have to censor myself to not let the proverbial cat out of the bag that I'm one of those apostates or heretics! (Like when I'm "warned" not to do Yoga.)

I'm not sure how to mingle with generically SBNR folks, bc I think there are way too many subcategories of that identity. Many are not aligned with my views (various new-age beliefs and certain far-leaning political views), so we don't see eye to eye. I think I'm also looked at with suspicion because I am religious on the surface.

I need to discover the vocabulary to define what I'm talking about so I can better search for likeminded individuals. That's where you lovely people come in

To sum up - I believe in one, personal, transendent and benevolent God, and I believe in eternal life. I do not know any further details of either, and I don't really like what my religion offers up. I enjoy yoga, Tai-Chi, meditation/contemplation/mindfulness. I've done past life regressions though I'm very skeptical. I try to follow the moral imperatives taught and lived out by Jesus of Nazareth. I enjoy the liturgy of Byzentine Christianity (both Orthodox and Catholic, though I only commune with the Catholics as I "am" Catholic). I read the Bible and enjoy various Christian music, both traditional hymns, chants, and modern. Lately I've been trying to figure out where the line is between my spirituality and my politics, as that has recently shifted quite a bit.

Thoughts?

And if I sound like your kind of weirdo, send me a PM!

Festgeschriebene Religionen und freie "magische" Esoterik passt nicht zusammen
Ist ganz ganz schwierig !!!
Frag Dich : Was ist Dein Weg ?
1.Formen von Religionen (aufgeschrieben und einzuhalten)
2.Esoterik und Magie (frei auszuüben mit subjektiven wichtigen Erfahrungen ,
die sonst nicht möglich gewesen wären)
Auf der Suche nach seiner "Richtung" diesbezüglich zu sein, ist sehr sehr schwer.
Es dauert lange bis man klarer sieht.................
Splitt und entwirre nach Religion und Esoterik
Mach eine Liste , damit Du es dierekt vor Augen hast und darüber nachdenken kannst ,
WAS Dir wichtig ist .

 

[rocala]

Hi @Karolina, thank you for such an interesting post. The points that you raise are to me very natural for somebody with an enquiring mind.

I am also spiritual in that I intuit God's presence (most especially in nature)

I can relate to this. I do sometimes "intuit" the presence of something, God I suppose. But it is not constant. Nature though has had the power to have a presence since my early childhood. I was in middle age before I actually connected my feelings with the term 'spiritual', and I will never forget the feeling of relief when I did so. As a result, my faith is eclectic (Buddhism and Modern Druidry) and much more satisfying.

I have no experience with Catholicism yet find what I see, somehow enticing. I have known two lifelong atheists who both said that if they found God they would become Catholics. Food for thought there.

Lately I've been trying to figure out where the line is between my spirituality and my politics,

You are not alone here it can be rather tricky. The man who got me into Buddhism was far left. A young woman that I met on my first Buddhist retreat is now a senior government minister and rightwinger. Both had no doubts that their politics were in line with their spiritual beliefs. Certainly, the Catholic faith has contained many conservatives and socialists. I think that the problem is, that modern politics, practically speaking, has to be about compromise. Factions are a healthy aspect of any political party. Faith however, is perhaps the search for a pure truth.

I wish you the best of luck in your search. It can be a very interesting and quite exciting journey. If a little bumpy at times.

 

[rocala]

And yet I have robust faith in the flowing cosmos which has given rise to life and consciousness and values. I just don’t think denotative language is a good enough vessel for truth. Poetry is better.

This is in line with much of my own thinking. Over the years, the role of the arts in religious thought and practice has become more apparent and significant to me. Eastern Orthodox art, Tibetan Buddhist painting, Sufi and Zen poetry, and some Christian traditional music are just a few examples, that have communicated in ways that prose probably could never have done.

 

[Whateverist]

This is in line with much of my own thinking. Over the years, the role of the arts in religious thought and practice has become more apparent and significant to me. Eastern Orthodox art, Tibetan Buddhist painting, Sufi and Zen poetry, and some Christian traditional music are just a few examples, that have communicated in ways that prose probably could never have done.

I think partaking in creative activities is one of the best places to feel the nearness of the sacred, right up there with nature herself. I used to draw some but not in a long time but I married an artist and am getting to have that experience second hand without the risk of getting puffed up to say nothing of all the demands on my time. Shudders. She is more down to earth than I and is a weaver. Like me she doesn't believe in any gods but unlike me she can't see what there is to even talk about with religion. Now all my creative juices go into making and caring for my garden.

I just came across some ceramics on Fakebook which led me to look for her website. Some fine photos of her work here: STORYTELLERS. I really like her work and I like her statement about it almost as much:

Eroding hillsides, a swirling ripple on water's surface, the rhythmic pattern of ocean flora and their associated shadow and reflection inspires endless relationship intrigue, revealing a story that challenges my expression. Utilizing elements that demand physical involvement in building form and surface, I hand-build my sculptural forms to preserve this symbolic gesture of energy, coiling each form using stoneware, earthenware, or porcelain. I frequently paddle the form's surface to engage with its inner resonance which is reminiscent of tidal rhythm and flow and allows the clay to 'speak' to me as the form evolves. Oxide stains (usually copper and iron), slips, engobes, or color-tinted underglazes are layered on the surface of low-fired forms in preparation for etching techniques that will establish a surface visual that maps a spirited dance within. I engage many firing methods appropriate for the applied surface and the clay used in each work, with a preference for atmospheric firing. How the surface elements attract and cast flame plays an integral role in the evolution of the story that ultimately engages the completion and beginning of my next work.

I consider my garden to be a collaborative work with nature, and I would always prefer to see her hand in its design than my own. A picture and a video:

 

[sun rise]

However, I do not "believe" that "my religion is literally true". I believe it's a beautiful metaphor, and when I spend the time reflecting on the deeper meanings of things my church teaches as "fact", I can see their "Truth" without necessarily believing the literalness of the surface meaning.

Not all religious folk take scripture literally wholly or in part.

I'm not sure how to mingle with generically SBNR folks, bc I think there are way too many subcategories of that identity. Many are not aligned with my views (various new-age beliefs and certain far-leaning political views), so we don't see eye to eye. I think I'm also looked at with suspicion because I am religious on the surface.

There are those who focus on subcategories but I've not noticed this being a feature, certainly not a strong feature, of people here.

 

[Karolina]

I don’t understand creedal belief or obsession with doctrine so I am not a believer. And yet I have robust faith in the flowing cosmos which has given rise to life and consciousness and values. I just don’t think denotative language is a good enough vessel for truth. Poetry is better.

---

OP here - sorry, I don't know how to comment outside of the acutal quote! doh. Anyway, this is really good. Really resonates with me that language is just not the best mode of communication, and the poetry, sigh....

 

[Karolina]

You missed neither religious or spiritual but probably not what you are looking for

There's a neither option - unless you take issue with the religion nerd part

 

[Karolina]

Festgeschriebene Religionen und freie "magische" Esoterik passt nicht zusammen
Ist ganz ganz schwierig !!!
Frag Dich : Was ist Dein Weg ?
1.Formen von Religionen (aufgeschrieben und einzuhalten)
2.Esoterik und Magie (frei auszuüben mit subjektiven wichtigen Erfahrungen ,
die sonst nicht möglich gewesen wären)
Auf der Suche nach seiner "Richtung" diesbezüglich zu sein, ist sehr sehr schwer.
Es dauert lange bis man klarer sieht.................
Splitt und entwirre nach Religion und Esoterik
Mach eine Liste , damit Du es dierekt vor Augen hast und darüber nachdenken kannst ,
WAS Dir wichtig ist .

Danke. Ich arbeite daran.

 

[Karolina]

I think partaking in creative activities is one of the best places to feel the nearness of the sacred, right up there with nature herself. I used to draw some but not in a long time but I married an artist and am getting to have that experience second hand without the risk of getting puffed up to say nothing of all the demands on my time. Shudders. She is more down to earth than I and is a weaver. Like me she doesn't believe in any gods but unlike me she can't see what there is to even talk about with religion. Now all my creative juices go into making and caring for my garden.

I just came across some ceramics on Fakebook which led me to look for her website. Some fine photos of her work here: STORYTELLERS. I really like her work and I like her statement about it almost as much:



I consider my garden to be a collaborative work with nature, and I would always prefer to see her hand in its design than my own. A picture and a video:

I love the idea of creative endeavors. It seems so obvious. I guess it's too easy to get sucked into draining activities that do nothing to feed the soul, so we have to be intentional about it. Perhaps most of my religiosity comes from the ease with which I can pursue it - after all, it's built into my day/week already, people expect me there, I feel a need to stay consistent for my kids. All of which tells me that it's just a matter of forging a new, intentional habit that will take up more of my time than wasteful activities, in order for me to feel like I'm "walking with God" and not needing fellow walkers to validate my experiences.

 

[ChristineM]

There's a neither option - unless you take issue with the religion nerd part

Yup i saw that and no issue, I'm atheist simply don't do religion.

 

[Whateverist]

Yup i saw that and no issue, I'm atheist simply don't do religion.

So you're more like my wife. I think it is like having different tastes and interests. That should be okay. I only talk about religion a little and from a particular viewpoint. I'm never shopping but neither am I selling or promoting anything. Just interested in comparing notes with those who wonder about similar things. Like why is there religion? Why a world or anything at all rather than nothing? How did life get started or consciousness or values? Nothing urgent about it and I prefer the questions to most of the answers I've heard.

 

[Schwarzweg]

So you're more like my wife. I think it is like having different tastes and interests. That should be okay. I only talk about religion a little and from a particular viewpoint. I'm never shopping but neither am I selling or promoting anything. Just interested in comparing notes with those who wonder about similar things. Like why is there religion? Why a world or anything at all rather than nothing? How did life get started or consciousness or values? Nothing urgent about it and I prefer the questions to most of the answers I've heard.

Und nicht NICHTS ?
Weil wir MENSCHEN sind .
Wir kommen wahrscheinlich ins NICHTS wenn wir uns wandeln(sterben und menschlich tot sind)
Aber ist NICHTS ?
Nichts SOLL immer ALLES beinhalten, oder ABSOLUT wirklich nichts ?
Was dann ?
DAS ist und bleibt die große Frage
Alles Andere ? Spekulationen von Vielen oder echte subjektive Erfahrungen Einzelner

 

[Whateverist]

Double post.

 

[Whateverist]

Und nicht NICHTS ?
Weil wir MENSCHEN sind .
Wir kommen wahrscheinlich ins NICHTS wenn wir uns wandeln(sterben und menschlich tot sind)
Aber ist NICHTS ?
Nichts SOLL immer ALLES beinhalten, oder ABSOLUT wirklich nichts ?
Was dann ?
DAS ist und bleibt die große Frage
Alles Andere ? Spekulationen von Vielen oder echte subjektive Erfahrungen Einzelner

You seem to be rephrasing the same questions except more bombastically as though the answers should be obvious. Is your point then that such questions should not be bothered with?