Spiritual Crisis?

[Vincent Valentine]

My topic isn't really for debate, but more for discussion. I couldn't find a forum for that so I'm posting here. My question is, has anyone has a very serious soul wrenching spiritual crisis go on for over 11 years? The kind that robs you of peace of mind, and drives you to the brink of insanity?

If so, maybe someone could briefly describe it. It may help me out some. Thanks

 

[George-ananda]

Can you tell us a little more of what you mean by 'spiritual crisis'? There are probably different kinds for different people.

 

[Vincent Valentine]

Can you tell us a little more of what you mean by 'spiritual crisis'? There are probably different kinds for different people.

As stated by the DSM IV "Spiritual Emergency"

http://www.spiritualcompetency.com/dsm4/dsmrsproblem.pdf

 

[buddhist]

In a sense ... after choosing to leave Christianity (after being in it for 30-so years), I was in a state of "spiritual emergency". I channeled that energy into searching out other philosophies and religions over the course of a few years.

 

[Vincent Valentine]

In a sense ... after choosing to leave Christianity (after being in it for 30-so years), I was in a state of "spiritual emergency". I channeled that energy into searching out other philosophies and religions over the course of a few years.

That's the process I'm in buddhist. The fear of hell still dogs me relentlessly. And I've watched dozens of NDE videos on youtube, and their testimonies of Jesus taking them to hell and back. I can't dismiss every single video I've seen, it wouldn't be rational to think every one is a lie or some "chemical reaction." I just don't buy it.

Personally I would be an atheist if I could and just keep the golden rule of christianity "treat others the way you want to be treated."

But my case is a lot more difficult because I was diagnosed with schizophrenia in 2005 and saw demons and angels while in an altered state (no illegal drugs in my system) and I just can't write it off as a hallucination. It was so real. My diagnosis has since changed to bipolar. But I had very vivid dreams of hell, and I'm convinced I'm doomed to go there. But I came to accept it, and with acceptance in a strange way brought peace. Strange I know, but I still rather be an atheist.

 

[buddhist]

That's the process I'm in buddhist. The fear of hell still dogs me relentlessly. And I've watched dozens of NDE videos on youtube, and their testimonies of Jesus taking them to hell and back. I can't dismiss every single video I've seen, it wouldn't be rational to think every one is a lie or some "chemical reaction." I just don't buy it.

Personally I would be an atheist if I could and just keep the golden rule of christianity "treat others the way you want to be treated."

But my case is a lot more difficult because I was diagnosed with schizophrenia in 2005 and saw demons and angels while in an altered state (no illegal drugs in my system) and I just can't write it off as a hallucination. It was so real. My diagnosis has since changed to bipolar. But I had very vivid dreams of hell, and I'm convinced I'm doomed to go there. But I came to accept it, and with acceptance in a strange way brought peace. Strange I know, but I still rather be an atheist.

I've had similar fears as well.

What personally helped me the most was all the investigating I did into philosophies and religions, finally settling on early Buddhism as the one which made the most sense to me. It has also been most helpful in my situation.

Have you ever had the sensation of observing your mind, and wondering to yourself "why am I thinking such things?". Buddhism explains it as the higher consciousness observing the lower mind. The lower mind is tied to the brain, and the brain is seen as an untrained animal (in most "ordinary" people). By allowing the mind/brain to dwell on bad thoughts, bad television shows, unproductive emotions, or if we feed our bodies (and thus, the brain) bad food, it's like allowing our pet dog to eat junk food all day long and to do whatever it wants. Would it be a surprise if such a dog runs around out of control?

The Eightfold Path in early Buddhism teaches the disciple to recognize that the higher consciousness has a separate existence from the lower mind/brain, and that the consciousness can (and should) train the mind to put it under control, just like a human might train a dog. We then no longer think "why am I thinking such things?", but instead we begin to realize "why is this disobedient mind thinking such things again? time for more obedience training, mind." An obedient mind would produce less suffering, I'm sure you can imagine.

From there, we progress onwards towards even higher training, which is said to ultimately lead to full awakening, enlightenment, and permanent bliss and cessation from suffering (nibbana).

 

[crossfire]

That's the process I'm in buddhist. The fear of hell still dogs me relentlessly. And I've watched dozens of NDE videos on youtube, and their testimonies of Jesus taking them to hell and back. I can't dismiss every single video I've seen, it wouldn't be rational to think every one is a lie or some "chemical reaction." I just don't buy it.

Personally I would be an atheist if I could and just keep the golden rule of christianity "treat others the way you want to be treated."

But my case is a lot more difficult because I was diagnosed with schizophrenia in 2005 and saw demons and angels while in an altered state (no illegal drugs in my system) and I just can't write it off as a hallucination. It was so real. My diagnosis has since changed to bipolar. But I had very vivid dreams of hell, and I'm convinced I'm doomed to go there. But I came to accept it, and with acceptance in a strange way brought peace. Strange I know, but I still rather be an atheist.

Are you not in hell right now?

 

[Vincent Valentine]

I've had similar fears as well.

What personally helped me the most was all the investigating I did into philosophies and religions, finally settling on early Buddhism as the one which made the most sense to me. It has also been most helpful in my situation.

Have you ever had the sensation of observing your mind, and wondering to yourself "why am I thinking such things?". Buddhism explains it as the higher consciousness observing the lower mind. The lower mind is tied to the brain, and the brain is seen as an untrained animal (in most "ordinary" people). By allowing the mind/brain to dwell on bad thoughts, bad television shows, unproductive emotions, or if we feed our bodies (and thus, the brain) bad food, it's like allowing our pet dog to eat junk food all day long and to do whatever it wants. Would it be a surprise if such a dog runs around out of control?

The Eightfold Path in early Buddhism teaches the disciple to recognize that the higher consciousness has a separate existence from the lower mind/brain, and that the consciousness can (and should) train the mind to put it under control, just like a human might train a dog. We then no longer think "why am I thinking such things?", but instead we begin to realize "why is this disobedient mind thinking such things again? time for more obedience training, mind." An obedient mind would produce less suffering, I'm sure you can imagine.

From there, we progress onwards towards even higher training, which is said to ultimately lead to full awakening, enlightenment, and permanent bliss and cessation from suffering (nibbana).

I've always been drawn to buddhism. Maybe I'll read the Varda's again and see if I can overcome these fears.

 

[Vincent Valentine]

Are you not in hell right now?

Of course, just without the flames haha

 

[OceanSoul]

That's the process I'm in buddhist. The fear of hell still dogs me relentlessly. And I've watched dozens of NDE videos on youtube, and their testimonies of Jesus taking them to hell and back. I can't dismiss every single video I've seen, it wouldn't be rational to think every one is a lie or some "chemical reaction." I just don't buy it.

Personally I would be an atheist if I could and just keep the golden rule of christianity "treat others the way you want to be treated."

But my case is a lot more difficult because I was diagnosed with schizophrenia in 2005 and saw demons and angels while in an altered state (no illegal drugs in my system) and I just can't write it off as a hallucination. It was so real. My diagnosis has since changed to bipolar. But I had very vivid dreams of hell, and I'm convinced I'm doomed to go there. But I came to accept it, and with acceptance in a strange way brought peace. Strange I know, but I still rather be an atheist.

Since you said you're Buddhist, there might be a practice that can help. Have you tried mindfulness?

 

[Twilight Hue]

That's the process I'm in buddhist. The fear of hell still dogs me relentlessly. And I've watched dozens of NDE videos on youtube, and their testimonies of Jesus taking them to hell and back. I can't dismiss every single video I've seen, it wouldn't be rational to think every one is a lie or some "chemical reaction." I just don't buy it.

Personally I would be an atheist if I could and just keep the golden rule of christianity "treat others the way you want to be treated."

But my case is a lot more difficult because I was diagnosed with schizophrenia in 2005 and saw demons and angels while in an altered state (no illegal drugs in my system) and I just can't write it off as a hallucination. It was so real. My diagnosis has since changed to bipolar. But I had very vivid dreams of hell, and I'm convinced I'm doomed to go there. But I came to accept it, and with acceptance in a strange way brought peace. Strange I know, but I still rather be an atheist.

I suspect it's an inprint. If your acclimated with Christianity, its reasonable that demons, angels, and the like would follow.

Check out NDEs from various parts of the world. You will see a pattern.

 

[buddhist]

I've always been drawn to buddhism. Maybe I'll read the Varda's again and see if I can overcome these fears.

What are the Varda's? I'm not familar with it.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

As stated by the DSM IV "Spiritual Emergency"

http://www.spiritualcompetency.com/dsm4/dsmrsproblem.pdf

I'm too stubborn to have a spiritual crisis. The closest I'd get is spiritual disconnection. Trying to realize spirituality and religion is not separate from my everyday life-what I do, think, value, and so forth. Once I know that, it doesn't become a "spiritual" crisis but more of knowing oneself and his relation to themselves, others, and/or their god (etc). That's why I don't say (or like saying) "I am a Buddhist", I am a this or I am a that, because it puts more emphasis on what I need to be to keep that label up rather than the practice or living the religion itself. Making it a part of you.

So, that's my spiritual crisis. Getting out of disconnecting spirituality from everyday life. What helped me is whatever I read from the sutras, for example, I find a way that it relates to everyday life so it isn't "stuck in a book."

Outside of that, I honestly don't know what spiritual crisis is. I suffered from clinical depression; so, anything I experience now seems second place. The only thing that lines up with clinical depression is loosing a loved one. However, I notice the latter becomes dormant after a long long long while. It's situational.

You said you are a Buddhist. Are there Buddhist practices that interest you to help you with what you're experiencing with your health-spiritual, mental, or otherwise?

 

[Vincent Valentine]

I used to meditate, but now I'm far too impatient to sit in one place for a long time. I guess I just glean practical wisdom and apply it the best I can in every day life. ex. Staying calm, trying to be respectful in my interactions (in real life at least), I gave up on the good deeds thing though.

My idea of the ultimate good deed is living a reclusive life and doing no harm to anyone or anything until the day I die. But if I remember in my research, there is even a hell in buddhism. So I guess it's inescapable.

I really enjoy Jesus' teachings, all of it except the eternal torment. Too inhumane for people who committed temporal sins. I could see maybe like a prison like place like on earth for the afterlife for murderers and rapists, but with a set time limit.

I am really envious of people who give no thought to religion or the after life and can focus on the here and now. I seem to be consumed in my fixation on the hereafter. Maybe by the time I'm 50 I'll have a different focus.

 

[DawudTalut]

...... My question is, has anyone has a very serious soul wrenching spiritual crisis go on for over 11 years? The kind that robs you of peace of mind, and drives you to the brink of insanity?

If so, maybe someone could briefly describe it. It may help me out some. Thanks

Peace be on you.
After 11 years, now time to pray to seek direct-guidance, IMHO.

 

[Aiviu]

I used to meditate, but now I'm far too impatient to sit in one place for a long time. I guess I just glean practical wisdom and apply it the best I can in every day life. ex. Staying calm, trying to be respectful in my interactions (in real life at least), I gave up on the good deeds thing though.

My idea of the ultimate good deed is living a reclusive life and doing no harm to anyone or anything until the day I die. But if I remember in my research, there is even a hell in buddhism. So I guess it's inescapable.

I really enjoy Jesus' teachings, all of it except the eternal torment. Too inhumane for people who committed temporal sins. I could see maybe like a prison like place like on earth for the afterlife for murderers and rapists, but with a set time limit.

I am really envious of people who give no thought to religion or the after life and can focus on the here and now. I seem to be consumed in my fixation on the hereafter. Maybe by the time I'm 50 I'll have a different focus.

Dont you realize that the spirit has awakened you?

 

[OceanSoul]

I used to meditate, but now I'm far too impatient to sit in one place for a long time. I guess I just glean practical wisdom and apply it the best I can in every day life. ex. Staying calm, trying to be respectful in my interactions (in real life at least), I gave up on the good deeds thing though.

My idea of the ultimate good deed is living a reclusive life and doing no harm to anyone or anything until the day I die. But if I remember in my research, there is even a hell in buddhism. So I guess it's inescapable.

I really enjoy Jesus' teachings, all of it except the eternal torment. Too inhumane for people who committed temporal sins. I could see maybe like a prison like place like on earth for the afterlife for murderers and rapists, but with a set time limit.

I am really envious of people who give no thought to religion or the after life and can focus on the here and now. I seem to be consumed in my fixation on the hereafter. Maybe by the time I'm 50 I'll have a different focus.

I can't relate to people who don't contemplate religion either. Meditation can take time to get the hang of because the mind likes to wander when you're trying to sit and relax.

Why have you given up doing good deeds? If you're depressed that can really drag you down spiritually.

 

[Ahanit]

Do you know that Meditation can not only be done while Sitting???

Meditation has different ways to be done, in the endeffekt all what is done with whole awarness is meditation, that can be breathing, but that can also be a aware walk through nature, or a Tea Ceremony or brushing your Teeth...

You can try to take every day five minutes and do that what you are doing fully aware of what you are doing... Do only think about what your are doing in this single moment. Do not go forward to what you will be doing next, only the moment is what is interesting.... That is much moree effective than classical Meditation for a always walking mind When your body does something you can concentrate at, the mind has no chance to walk in different direction....

My favorite is to walk through the woods while meditating....

 

[OceanSoul]

Do you know that Meditation can not only be done while Sitting???

Meditation has different ways to be done, in the endeffekt all what is done with whole awarness is meditation, that can be breathing, but that can also be a aware walk through nature, or a Tea Ceremony or brushing your Teeth...

You can try to take every day five minutes and do that what you are doing fully aware of what you are doing... Do only think about what your are doing in this single moment. Do not go forward to what you will be doing next, only the moment is what is interesting.... That is much moree effective than classical Meditation for a always walking mind When your body does something you can concentrate at, the mind has no chance to walk in different direction....

My favorite is to walk through the woods while meditating....

Right, sitting down isn't the only way to approach the practice. Going out for a walk in nature is a great way to de-stress and try meditation, IMO.

 

[Vincent Valentine]

I can't relate to people who don't contemplate religion either. Meditation can take time to get the hang of because the mind likes to wander when you're trying to sit and relax.

Why have you given up doing good deeds? If you're depressed that can really drag you down spiritually.

I believe living a life without harming anyone, or their property is a good deed. Probably more than most people do in fact. I just reject the compulsion that I have to go out and be a good samaritan, or else I'll be punished in the after life. I refuse to be bullied into philanthropy, and I was raised in Christianity which is heavy in fear baiting and mongering.