Spiritual Entities: Metaphors or Falsities

[The Hammer]

"I propose a third option—that our demonology conforms to some type of reality, but an ineffable one, a hidden one, an inexpressible one that can neither be measured nor understood but that is somehow closer to us than the atoms of our very breath."

A History of Demonology is a History of the World

The article talks bout demonology in particular, but it applies to all Spiritual entities IMO.

 

[Sedim Haba]

Demons. Again. Sigh...

They only have as much power as you believe they do. They are liars. Spiritual toxic waste.

As I've stated over in the Paranormal sub-forum, all Spiritual entities are from other universes
in the Multiverse. Whether by natural ability or some technology, they are able to cross over
into our universe, for motivations unknown or perhaps unknowable. Given an infinite number
of such other universes, where if something is possible it must exist, I'm surprised we're not
just surrounded by them.

 

[The Hammer]

New Demons. Again. Sigh..

Nope, not at all what I'm talking about, which is all Spiritual Entities (Gods, Demons, etc). This article just articulated the point I was trying to make, which is quoted above, and happened to be about demonology, but it's not important.

Edit: Also I'm not sure I fully accept a multiverse theory of the universe, it's more complicated then that, I think.

 

[Sedim Haba]

Nope, not at all what I'm talking about, which is all Spiritual Entities (Gods, Demons, etc). This article just articulated the point I was trying to make, which is quoted above, and happened to be about demonology, but it's not important.

Edit: Also I'm not sure I fully accept a multiverse theory of the universe, it's more complicated then that, I think.

Right! In today's world, the UFO's that our military has opened up about harassing US ships
is far more relevant. Is it more believable that these craft come from light-years away?

 

[JonSL]

I have been meditating since the early 80s. Everyone who meditates a lot, eventually interacts with a demon somewhere. I have seen them mostly in dream-visions.

Guess what? They are total **mod edit** ********.

Why anyone would want to learn about them is beyond me.

Think of the worst, most manipulative jerk you ever met. These guys are like their drill sergeants.

Absolutely not worth bothering with.

One of the ways you know that you interacted with one is that they can kind of suck away all your spiritual gifts.

Particularly hope.

You meet a demon and the next thing you know, your entire world is hopeless.

Think about Putin.

Here was his quote, "Hope is a mirage on the horizon."

Now that lunatic has surrendered his entire life to demons. He can't even conceive that hope and promise is real.

And that idiot is going to roast in hell for a thousand years.

And the reason that stuff is so incredibly interesting is exactly what?

It's just some weird self-destructive urge in our psyche.

I don't particularly like bowling...but bowling is about 9000 times more fun than getting close to a demon.


People who meditate sometimes make spiritual mistakes...even big ones. That is usually when God sends a demon your way...to punch you in the head a few hundred times, until you realize what an idiot you are and what direction is the right way to go.

I once confronted some criminal bikers. That night I was sent to hell and all the other folks around me were like these huge body builder types. It was a message that being macho is often a direct road to hell. So, you know, I calmed down and wisely decided to leave confronting bikers to the cops.

 

[Erebus]

"I propose a third option—that our demonology conforms to some type of reality, but an ineffable one, a hidden one, an inexpressible one that can neither be measured nor understood but that is somehow closer to us than the atoms of our very breath."

A History of Demonology is a History of the World

The article talks bout demonology in particular, but it applies to all Spiritual entities IMO.

I may have to buy that book. A more nuanced take on demonology sounds interesting.

Speaking for myself, I generally lean towards the metaphorical approach he described. I can say with certainty that spirit beings exist when seen from a metaphorical perspective. I would also argue that this doesn't necessarily diminish the power, value and danger of these beings. That said, I can certainly understand why many people find this view unsatisfying.

Outside of metaphor, I tend to take a more agnostic stance. I don't see how it's possible for me to know with certainty that there are/aren't non-material, conscious beings out there. Even if you take the view that poltergeist activity, ghost sightings and the like are real and documentable, I would argue that determining whether or not there's a conscious being behind them is likely impossible.

I will confess though that my agnosticism is at least in part for the sake of intellectual honesty. My inclination towards belief or disbelief varies wildly and is prone to change. It's also the thing that causes me the most headaches when it comes to determining precisely where I belong in religious terms.


Now, regarding the third option described in the article... I don't know how much I agree with it. By its very nature, the third option is mostly beyond description and understanding. I think I get the gist of what he's driving at but if so, it's something that I can only contemplate rather than adopt as a stance.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Haven't read through the whole article yet, but I like what the author is saying. From what I have read, I see ghosts in a similar manner; they may not be actual spirits running around "living" it up, but they aren't quite metaphors related to our ideas and feelings around death either, but somehow in between.

I use the analogy "the map is not the territory" quite a bit, and it's particularly useful here. The map is the symbol, the territory is the reality, and one could say that the traveler experiences the inbetween state (the numinous) from the time of imagining, preparing for, and taking the journey. The map is a symbol for the reality of the landscape that can be tested, photographed, experienced, but the traveler experiences something in between these that could never again be "real," wrapped up in various mental and emotional connections, associations, and individual nuances that make the journey a ghost to be consigned to the brain of the individual that can never quite describe or explain it.

Similarly, after my grandmother died, my family was cleaning the house out, doing all those emotional things people do for necessity and to let go. I was the last one to leave (the last time I was to be in the house) when I heard clear, unmistakable footsteps in the attic. It could have been any sort of mundane, realistic thing, but in that moment of severe vulnerability and emotional needs, it hit me in that unreal reality that the author desribes as "That warped smile and those red eyes might not be staring back at me from the yard, but they’re staring back from somewhere."

Not quite a metaphor and not quite a real spirit (as far as science can verify), but something wrapped in all the individual nuances of my own sublime reality.

 

[PureX]

When I was a young man, my friends and I used to get together on Friday nights and play "next whisky bar". We'd all pile into an old station wagon, turn up the Door's song, "Next Whisky Bar" on the 8-track stereo and drive around Chicago stopping at every bar we saw, for one drink. And then on to the next one. It's easy to do in Chicago where there is a bar on every block.

And each place we went would have a different feeling, or 'spirit' to it depending on lots of subtle things like the patrons, the decor, the neighborhood, the music playing, their attitude toward outsiders, the smell, the sound, the drinks they offer, the games they played, and so on. And all these things would kind of meld together to give us an overall impression of the place as an embodied experience.

And I think this sort of subtle melding of impressions happens with all sorts of things, like people, places, circumstances, happenings, ideas, and so on. All these subtle aspects of a specific place and time in reality meld together to create a kind of 'energy signature' that we then relate to, singularly. And that as humans we sometimes have a tendency to perceive anthropomorphically. And I think this is how we come to perceive 'spirit', and turn it into a 'being' in our minds.