I think that is not necessary the same, because God has not promised to do everything anyone asks.Yes, to the same extent that praying to God and not getting what you ask for is evidence against God.
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I think that is not necessary the same, because God has not promised to do everything anyone asks.Yes, to the same extent that praying to God and not getting what you ask for is evidence against God.
Yes, but I don't think atheists are critical thinkers. I don't believe critical thinker could be an atheist.You know by now or ought to what it takes to convince a critical thinker -
We are evolved apes, so we are drivin by our instinct like any living creature on the planet.Without the aid of great spiritual Teachers I believe we would still be barbarians. And These Teachers all get their inspiration from the same Source - God.
So when you said that all religions teach virtues, you really meant "only my religion teaches virtues and no others"?Religions go through stages. When they begin they are effective but over time decay and only the outward practices remain. So each religion has its spring, summer, autumn then winter. Today religions are in their winter, organisations, but lacking the virtues you mentioned. That is why religion is renewed from age to age by God. Today those virtues have been revived once again by the appearance of a new Messenger of God.
I think that is not necessary the same, because God has not promised to do everything anyone asks.
What point? That your proposal that the bible is a reliable guide to morals is nonsense, as any reading of the bible willl disclose ─ invasive war, massacres of surrendered populations, human sacrifice, religious intolerance, slavery, inferiority of women, and so on, all ordained by God.No. You are not. You are not trying to be gentle with me, nor the Bible.
What point are you trying to make here?
The big problem with “transformative effects” is that it is applicable to religions different from Christianity. I personally know people, believing in Gods that are completely different from the Christian God, who experienced great transformations and use that as evidence that (their God) exists.For me, the "transformative effect" and the spiritual values are the strongest proofs.
There are people who think of the Bible like it is some magic portion, where anyone who picks it up should be transformed "by its power".
However, one cannot see the transforming power of the Bible, by the mere possession of it.
Many people possess a Bible, and hardly read it. Some don't even think that it is of much value, other than to hold it in their hand for people to see... as though it's a ticket to a ride to heaven.
You probably heard that some people open it to a random page, and place it above a baby's head.
To see the transforming power of the Bible, one has to read, study, appreciate and apply it.
Only then, would one see the transforming power, because applying its values result in a superior way of life.
This is proof for me, and it can be scientifically tested.
All that is required, is to take all the people who read, study, appreciate, and apply the principles in the Bible, along with thousands of other people, and evaluate the results.
Which of those people are less angry, less sexually immoral, less tolerant of drug or alcohol abuse, less tolerant of the use of harmful substances, like smoking cigars, getting tattooed, less tolerant of dangerous activities - car, motorcycle, snowboarding, etc., racing, less tolerant of using language that is not up-building to the hearer, less tolerant of being entertained by violence, and immorality, and exposing children to these, does not return evil to those that commit evil against them, more peaceable, etc. etc.
I am confident - guaranteed - that those who are applying - living by Bible standards, would all prove to be on one side of the chart, 100%, while on the other side there would be mixed results, none consistently having their "needle" pointing one way.
The only problem science would have in this area though, is that they cannot decide on what is immoral, and people have various opinions on morals, so for example, it may be morally acceptable to some, to "pick fairs", that is pay for sexual favors. Or, one may think it is okay to "sleep with" the neighbor's wife, because "she consents", and don't love her husband, anyway.
So the world's inconsistency, on what is morally acceptable, limits science, and so, it fails to be a good tool for measuring the proofs that exist in reality.
The other thing is, science cannot read hearts, so it is impossible to verify who really is at heart applying the scriptures. Some people are good pretenders.
So, while we have the proof, and it be really proof, science cannot verify it. Nor can atheists disprove it.
And to leaving Christianity.The big problem with “transformative effects” is that it is applicable to religions different from Christianity.
The Torah, is not the Bible, and the Bible is not the Torah.What point? That your proposal that the bible is a reliable guide to morals is nonsense, as any reading of the bible willl disclose ─ invasive war, massacres of surrendered populations, human sacrifice, religious intolerance, slavery, inferiority of women, and so on, all ordained by God.
Do you want me to quote the relevant parts of the bible? Being one who studies the bible, you should know them already, but still, I'm here to help if you somehow missed those parts.
I explained why Jesus had to die - why he gave his life as a sacrifice.Oh, and you didn't explain why Jesus' suicide mission was necessary, given that God is omnipotent.
Praising someone for bravely sacrificing their life generally comes as a package deal with condeming those who caused the sacrifice to be necessary.I explained why Jesus had to die - why he gave his life as a sacrifice.
Tell me, do you consider people given a Bravery Honor, for saving a life, or lives, at the cost of their own? Straight answer... No beating around the bush and running away from answering the question this time. Do you?
No it's confirmation bias. My Muslim GF said the same about the Quran. My Hindu friend makes the same claims in this post about Lord Krishna. Every single point, personal relationship, feels his answers in her heart. Islamic friend even felt she was in the correct religion, Allah told her with emotion and leads her life to positive things.For me, the "transformative effect" and the spiritual values are the strongest proofs.
There are people who think of the Bible like it is some magic portion, where anyone who picks it up should be transformed "by its power".
However, one cannot see the transforming power of the Bible, by the mere possession of it.
Many people possess a Bible, and hardly read it. Some don't even think that it is of much value, other than to hold it in their hand for people to see... as though it's a ticket to a ride to heaven.
You probably heard that some people open it to a random page, and place it above a baby's head.
To see the transforming power of the Bible, one has to read, study, appreciate and apply it.
Only then, would one see the transforming power, because applying its values result in a superior way of life.
This is proof for me, and it can be scientifically tested.
All that is required, is to take all the people who read, study, appreciate, and apply the principles in the Bible, along with thousands of other people, and evaluate the results.
Which of those people are less angry, less sexually immoral, less tolerant of drug or alcohol abuse, less tolerant of the use of harmful substances, like smoking cigars, getting tattooed, less tolerant of dangerous activities - car, motorcycle, snowboarding, etc., racing, less tolerant of using language that is not up-building to the hearer, less tolerant of being entertained by violence, and immorality, and exposing children to these, does not return evil to those that commit evil against them, more peaceable, etc. etc.
There are Eastern Monks living monastic dedicated lives, millions of Hindu who eat plants and never harm anything living.The other thing is, science cannot read hearts, so it is impossible to verify who really is at heart applying the scriptures. Some people are good pretenders.
So, while we have the proof, and it be really proof, science cannot verify it. Nor can atheists disprove it.
Can you prove that virtues are evolved traits? Where did they evolve from?
I say they are from God. "Hardwired" into "the nature of" man. Can you prove me wrong?
Well here is your chance to demonstrate your claim.The big problem with “transformative effects” is that it is applicable to religions different from Christianity. I personally know people, believing in Gods that are completely different from the Christian God, who experienced great transformations and use that as evidence that (their God) exists.
No sorry. That does not mesh, with the facts.But since all those different Gods are mutually exclusive we can logically conclude that the “transformative theory” is epistemologically very unreliable, and as such it leads to no evidence at all.
ciao
- viole
When speaking about evidences and proofs with regards to God here I am not speaking about scientific proofs but spiritual proofs. I believe that the human mind cannot grasp God so it is fruitless trying to prove God scientifically as we are told He is Spirit. Then to prove God we need to look at spiritual evidences.
What are spiritual proofs and evidences of God? Some say the virtues. Others, the transformative effect the Teachings of the Great Spiritual Teachers have had on the character of the individual and society. Still others say miracles.
Readers might like to contribute by adding how their Prophet’s teachings transformed the life of the individual and society or add their own spiritual proofs of God’s existence.
Now that's confirmation bias. We just have to find something to criticize.Praising someone for bravely sacrificing their life generally comes as a package deal with condeming those who caused the sacrifice to be necessary.
Does not follow. ...but... How do you figure?If Jesus is the hero of the story, then God is the villain.
Ok, if that is the case, then it is obvious. I do not know many pagans I could use to crosscheck. However, that is no evidence of a God. It is evidence that people believing in that God, or that Scripture, had their life transformed.There is a reason I ask. I'll give you the first.
The newer religions, trace their moral values back to the Bible.
For example, Muslim, Hindus, etc, are all after the Psalms and the Proverbs, and their holy books point to these, as being from the true God.
Even modern day witnesses of Jehovah (JWs) trace their values back to the early writings.
So that is why there will be similar values.
Uh, Inana was 2000 years before the Israelites were a people. This is the first known writing by a human in existence. A small sample written by Enheduanna. Clearly as transformative as any Biblical praise.Well here is your chance to demonstrate your claim.
You see, I'm a fair person.
Please give me the name of the religion, and the transformation made.
What things for example, have they given up, and no longer practice, and are they no longer practicing any of the things in my list?
There is a reason I ask. I'll give you the first.
The newer religions, trace their moral values back to the Bible.
For example, Muslim, Hindus, etc, are all after the Psalms and the Proverbs, and their holy books point to these, as being from the true God.
Even modern day witnesses of Jehovah (JWs) trace their values back to the early writings.
So that is why there will be similar values.
Even atheists. You won't want to admit it, but your fore-parents grandfather, aunt, somebody, held values passed down through generation, which has had some influence on atheists... even if you were born into an atheists household, or brought up in a church.
No sorry. That does not mesh, with the facts.
Maybe understand what terms like "confirmation bias" mean before you use them in conversation.Now that's confirmation bias.
No, they didn't. In this analogy, the person who sacrifices themselves - Jesus - and the shooter - God - are separate people each acting of their own volition.We just have to find something to criticize.
I see no sense in what you said, because the one who made the sacrifice or the people in danger did not cause the person who made the sacrifice necessary to act the way they did.
If someone enters a Supermarket, and starts shooting, and someone throws themself over their little girl or boy, did the person cause the shooter?
Atheists just have no shame for their closed minded bias.
When someone does something at great personal cost to save others from a bad outcome, they've acted bravely. What they did is praiseworthy.Does not follow. ...but... How do you figure?
Wow. You're fast. You have all these things stored in a 'journal', so it's just a quick copy paste, isn't it. That's smart. Good practice. I should try it, because it saves repeating things too.Uh, Inana was 2000 years before the Israelites were a people. This is the first known writing by a human in existence. A small sample written by Enheduanna. Clearly as transformative as any Biblical praise.
Also Genesis is confirmed to be written as a response to Mesopotamian myths. Heaven, souls returning there is not originally a Hebrew belief.
That is Greek.
Hymn to Inanna
The Hymn to Inanna (also known as The Great-Hearted Mistress) is a passionate devotional work by the poet and high priestess Enheduanna (l. 2285-2250 BCE), the first author in the world known by name...www.worldhistory.org
: To run, to escape, to quiet and to pacify are yours, Inana. To rove around, to rush, to rise up, to fall down and to ... a companion are yours, Inana. To open up roads and paths, a place of peace for the journey, a companion for the weak, are yours, Inana. To keep paths and ways in good order, to shatter earth and to make it firm are yours, Inana. To destroy, to build up, to tear out and to settle are yours, Inana. To turn a man into a woman and a woman into a man are yours, Inana. Desirability and arousal, goods and property are yours, Inana. Gain, profit, great wealth and greater wealth are yours, Inana. Gaining wealth and having success in wealth, financial loss and reduced wealth are yours, Inana. Observation (1 ms. has instead: Everything), choice, offering, inspection and approval are yours, Inana. Assigning virility, dignity, guardian angels, protective deities and cult centres are yours, Inana.
6 lines fragmentary
132-154: ... mercy and pity are yours, Inana. ... are yours, Inana. To cause the ... heart to tremble, ... illnesses are yours, Inana. To have a wife, ..., to love ... are yours, Inana. To rejoice, to control (?), ... are yours, Inana. Neglect and care, raising and bowing down are yours, Inana. To build a house, to create a woman's chamber, to possess implements, to kiss a child's lips are yours, Inana. To run, to race, to desire and to succeed are yours, Inana. To interchange the brute and the strong and the weak and the powerless is yours, Inana. To interchange the heights and valleys and the ... and the plains (?) is yours, Inana. To give the crown, the throne and the royal sceptre is yours, Inana.
12 lines missing
155-157: To diminish, to make great, to make low, to make broad, to ... and to give a lavish supply are yours, Inana. To bestow the divine and royal rites, to carry out the appropriate instructions, slander, untruthful words, abuse, to speak inimically and to overstate are yours, Inana.
158-168: The false or true response, the sneer, to commit violence, to extend derision, to speak with hostility, to cause smiling and to be humbled or important, misfortune, hardship, grief, to make happy, to clarify and to darken, agitation, terror, fear, splendour and great awesomeness in radiance, triumph, pursuit, imbasur illness, sleeplessness and restlessness, submission, gift, ... and howling, strife, chaos, opposition, fighting and carnage, ..., to know everything, to strengthen for the distant future a nest built ..., to instill fear in the ... desert like a ... poisonous snake, to subdue the hostile enemy, ... and to hate ... are yours, Inana.
169-173: To ... the lots ..., to gather the dispersed people and restore them to their homes, to receive ..., to ... are yours, Inana.
1 line fragmentary
174-181: ... the runners, when you open your mouth, ... turns into ... At your glance a deaf man does not ... to one who can hear. At your angry glare what is bright darkens; you turn midday into darkness. When the time had come you destroyed the place you had in your thoughts, you made the place tremble. Nothing can be compared to your purposes (?); who can oppose your great deeds? You are the lady of heaven and earth! Inana, in (?) the palace the unbribable judge, among the numerous people ... decisions. The invocation of your name fills the mountains, An (?) cannot compete with your ...
182-196: Your understanding ... all the gods ... You alone are magnificent. You are the great cow among the gods of heaven and earth, as many as there are. When you raise your eyes they pay heed to you, they wait for your word. The Anuna gods stand praying in the place where you dwell. Great awesomeness, glory ... May your praise not cease! Where is your name not magnificent?
Once you have said 'So be it', great An does not ... for him. Your 'So be it' is a 'So be it' of destruction, to destroy ....... Once you have said your ...... in the assembly, An and Enlil will not disperse it. Once you have made a decision ......, it cannot be changed in heaven and earth. Once you have specified approval of a place, it experiences no destruction. Once you have specified destruction for a place, it experiences no approval.
209-218: Your divinity shines in the pure heavens like Nanna or Utu. Your torch lights up the corners of heaven, turning darkness into light. ... with fire. Your ... refining ... walks like Utu in front of you. No one can lay a hand on your precious divine powers; all your divine powers ... You exercise full ladyship over heaven and earth; you hold everything in your hand. Mistress, you are magnificent, no one can walk before you. You dwell with great An in the holy resting-place. Which god is like you in gathering together ... in heaven and earth? You are magnificent, your name is praised, you alone are magnificent!
: Advice ..., grief, bitterness ..., 'alas' ... My lady, ... mercy ... compassion ... I am yours! This will always be so! May your heart be soothed towards me! May your understanding ... compassion. ....
Bold empty claims of something to be self evident does not make it so. Bold empty statements of confidence that some sort of hypothetical test will demonstrate your claim, even though you claim it the next sentence that the test itself can never be done in actuality to your satisfaction can only be described as delusional hubris.All you can see is the test? Wow.
I am so glad RF is not the only place we find scientists.
I'll spell it out for you then. It is self evident. It is not a personal experience. Do I have to put my hand in a sharks mouth to know what the results are? Is that my personal expectation? No. It is not... and we all know that.
So telling me about personal experience, is a strawman.
I said...
This is proof for me, and it can be scientifically tested.
All that is required, is to take all the people who read, study, appreciate, and apply the principles in the Bible, along with thousands of other people, and evaluate the results.
Then I mentioned the features of such a test, and the limitations on science, where that is concerned.
So the focus was never on the test.
Then I said... So, while we have the proof, and it be really proof, science cannot verify it. Nor can atheists disprove it.
We have the proof. We don't need science for that.
Everyone who was not born yesterday, and knows what a shark is, do not need a scientist to tell them what a shark does, do they?
Science can't tell them if the shark will bite them either, so we don't need a peer reviewd paper telling us anything that we can clearly see.
This Scientism worship is really becoming an annoying beast. I look forward to when God kills that beast.
We hold these truths to be self evident...
Promiscuity in adults
Having multiple sexual partners is linked with risks such as maternal deaths and complications, cancers, sexually transmitted infections, alcohol, and substance use, and social condemnation in some societies.
Effects of human sexual promiscuity - Wikipedia
Smoking causes cancer, heart disease, stroke, lung diseases, diabetes, and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), which includes emphysema and chronic bronchitis. Smoking also increases risk for tuberculosis, certain eye diseases, and problems of the immune system, including rheumatoid arthritis.
Health Effects | Smoking and Tobacco Use - CDC
Drug use can lead to dependence and addiction, injury and accidents, health problems, sleep issues, and more. Drug use affects you and those close to you.
Know the Risks of Using Drugs | SAMHSA
Smoking causes cancer, heart disease, stroke, lung diseases, diabetes, and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), which includes emphysema and chronic bronchitis. Smoking also increases risk for tuberculosis, certain eye diseases, and problems of the immune system, including rheumatoid arthritis.
Health Effects | Smoking and Tobacco Use - CD
Violence a global public health problem - SciELO
Community violence can include physical assaults between young people, sexual violence in the workplace and neglect of older people
Profanity | World Problems & Global Issue
Union of International Associations
http://encyclopedia.uia.org › problem
Profanity. Other Names: Swearing Bad language. Indecent speech. Foul language. Vulgar language. Verbal obscenity. Swear words.
Surely you can post the contrast, can't you?
If you can't, please let me know.