Shuddhasattva
Well-Known Member
What are your views on the two?
Is there any link?
If so, what is it?
Is there any link?
If so, what is it?
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Spirituality & Sexuality
- Thread starter Shuddhasattva
- Start date
Me Myself
Back to my username
I think it is like saying what is the link between spirituality and psychology or emotionality or rationality.
Sexuality is a part of spirituality. Healthy spirituality would have a healthy sexuality (although sometimes this "healthy" sexuality doesnt even have sex
, but let`s say it is not unhealthy)
I mena, what are you referinng when you say sexuality? the way we manage sex? I think a person that is well conected to him/herself will have the relationship with sex that best suit him/herself, and makes him/her most healthy, etc.
I think spirituality can be healthy as long as it doesnt feel repressed or aunhappy in it`s sexuality. A person that feels unhappy with it`s sexuality is a person that has this aspect of his spirituality that needs work.
edit: and the link is our own self. Spirituality is at the core of our beings, so anything that is relevant to us is relevant to our spirituality, our sexuality included.
Sexuality is a part of spirituality. Healthy spirituality would have a healthy sexuality (although sometimes this "healthy" sexuality doesnt even have sex
, but let`s say it is not unhealthy)I mena, what are you referinng when you say sexuality? the way we manage sex? I think a person that is well conected to him/herself will have the relationship with sex that best suit him/herself, and makes him/her most healthy, etc.
I think spirituality can be healthy as long as it doesnt feel repressed or aunhappy in it`s sexuality. A person that feels unhappy with it`s sexuality is a person that has this aspect of his spirituality that needs work.
edit: and the link is our own self. Spirituality is at the core of our beings, so anything that is relevant to us is relevant to our spirituality, our sexuality included.
I think the two are linked in some belief systems. In other
words, some belief systems aren't as concerned about
suppressing the sexuality in favor of the spirituality.
In my own current experience as a bridal mystic who relates
to God in His Krishnaic aspect, the two definitely gel quite
well. If one has a concept of the Divine where the Divine is
believed to have expressed Himself/Herself sexually, it's
going to be easier to combine the two, imo.
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Shuddhasattva
Well-Known Member
Is there a difference between divine sexuality and human sexuality? Not merely a difference between the divine and human aspects of sexuality, but the sexuality itself. Is divine sexuality defined biologically?
Me Myself
Back to my username
I am not sure I understand that question. o.o
For starters, what kind of differences you see between human and divine? I don´t put much differences inbetween them just by evocation of such words, but given a little more context into what you mean by these words here I will hopefully be able to give an answer
For starters, what kind of differences you see between human and divine? I don´t put much differences inbetween them just by evocation of such words, but given a little more context into what you mean by these words here I will hopefully be able to give an answer
Just going by my own experience, if its the Divine
expressing Himself to me, it seems to go through biological
channels in the sense that it lights up all the parts of my
heart and mind that would normally be lit up interacting with
a human partner with whom Im in love. So, I suppose its
His way of communicating in a language I can understand
(more physiological than purely celestial) and thus at a level
that won't blow my circuits
; if He were to express purely Divine caliber of sexuality to a mere human like me, perhaps
it would be too much for me to bear and Id I dunno
spontaneously combust or something.
Some mystic poets in the Hindu tradition such as Andal and
Mirabai express well what its like, in very human terms. If
one didnt know who they were writing about (God as
Krishna), one would think they were writing about their lover
or husband. Sexuality and spirituality merged perfectly there.
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Parsifal
Member
In my experience, sexual energy can be sublimated and alchemized in certain ways in order to fuel heightened states of consciousness and to advance spiritual development.
Right. Suppressed or repressed sexuality is not a very good fuel ~ it's like filling your tank with crude oil. The secret is to master the energy without repressing it. Unrestrained sexuality is also incompatible with serious spiritual development, IMHO. A lot of excellent traditional practices, formerly top secret, are now readily available. The most familiar are the tantric systems, and the Taoist praxis I use is also widely known.
It sounds beautiful. I wonder if you're familiar with St. Thérèse, the Little Flower? Her autobio, Story of a Soul, is filled with passionate expressions of her love for Jesus, clearly with a strong erotic undertone. She probably had to repress the self-knowledge that this was the case. It's refreshing that with Krishna it can be right upfront. No sin, no shame, no karma!
I think this goes a long way toward answering the question of the difference between divine and human sexuality: the celestial kind is a lot more potent! It's the real thing, the actual erotic substance of which the strictly physical act is but the shadow.
I once read a saying that Brahma (or Vishnu or Shiva) is the only true man; all other beings are female (or yin) in relation to him. I think this expresses the essence of human bhakti unto the divine.
Right. Suppressed or repressed sexuality is not a very good fuel ~ it's like filling your tank with crude oil. The secret is to master the energy without repressing it. Unrestrained sexuality is also incompatible with serious spiritual development, IMHO. A lot of excellent traditional practices, formerly top secret, are now readily available. The most familiar are the tantric systems, and the Taoist praxis I use is also widely known.
It sounds beautiful. I wonder if you're familiar with St. Thérèse, the Little Flower? Her autobio, Story of a Soul, is filled with passionate expressions of her love for Jesus, clearly with a strong erotic undertone. She probably had to repress the self-knowledge that this was the case. It's refreshing that with Krishna it can be right upfront. No sin, no shame, no karma!
it lights up all the parts of my
heart and mind that would normally be lit up interacting with
a human partner with whom Im in love. So, I suppose its
His way of communicating in a language I can understand
(more physiological than purely celestial) and thus at a level
that won't blow my circuits
Divine caliber of sexuality to a mere human like me, perhaps
it would be too much for me to bear and Id I dunno
spontaneously combust or something.
I think this goes a long way toward answering the question of the difference between divine and human sexuality: the celestial kind is a lot more potent! It's the real thing, the actual erotic substance of which the strictly physical act is but the shadow.
I once read a saying that Brahma (or Vishnu or Shiva) is the only true man; all other beings are female (or yin) in relation to him. I think this expresses the essence of human bhakti unto the divine.
Cassiopia
Sugar and Spice
I think there are many links on many levels. Both can be a path to gratification, to bliss, to transcendence. They both can involve an altered state of consciousness. Sex, both actual and symbolically can represent many aspects of creation and life. For those who use magic as part of their spiritual path, sex can be the means and basis of great power and energy.
There have been many books and scriptures written about the relationship between sex and spirituality. Personally I have often found sex to be a spiritual experience.
chinu
chinu
There is no link between these two, infact they are very opposite to each other, Spirituality means aweakning, Sexuality means sleeping.
I haven't read that one, yet; I'll need to check it out. I'm familiar with the writings of a couple of the Hindu saints, Mirabai and Andal, which are along the same lines (Andal is probably even more erotically blunt than Mirabai
). I agree that with Krishna, the traditions surrounding Him are far more conducive to bridal mysticism (a.k.a. madhurya bhava, in Hinduism).
Still, though, I've been surprised at the somewhat Victorian reaction I've received in the past from Krishna devotees, when discussing the more "romantical" (that should be a word
) aspects of relating to Him (see a thread I started awhile back, titled "Madhurya-Bhava: What exactly is acceptable?"). Apparently, it's not for everyone, and may, in fact, be rare. Yes, I read that too!
Some male devotees would dress up as women as part of their devotional time with Krishna, desiring to be one of His gopis (milkmaids) of Vrindavan. There's even a story about His friend Arjun, where Krishna had him transformed (per Arjun's request) into a woman (named "Arjuni") so that the latter could experience Krishna the way His gopis did.-
Dang. And here I thought I was the only person in the world who thought the exact same thing.
Well stated, Parsifal. :clap
Wirey
Fartist
My wife yells "God , no!" whenever I ask if she's in the mood. Does that count?
Parsifal
Member
I'm familiar with the writings of a couple of the Hindu saints, Mirabai and Andal, which are along the same lines (Andal is probably even more erotically blunt than Mirabai
Thanks for the refs. I found a couple of sites with Mirabai's poetry, but couldn't find a good source for Andal. Her bio sketch on Wikipedia was pretty interesting, though: she merged completely with the Lord at age 15 ~ and evidently died, at least physically. But perhaps you would be kind enough to provide a link or two for her writings. BTW, Thérèse also died young ~ 21, I believe. She was very happy to rise into the arms of her Lord.
It is! It's a real "down-home" word."romantical" (that should be a word
I was intrigued by that term, bridal mysticism, and am glad to find out more about it. I took a look at your blog from your signature link, and was further intrigued, but disappointed that there doesn't seem to be a set-up to comment on your posts. But now I can do it here
. I can see there's some substantial stuff in that thread; as soon as I get a chance I'll delve into it.Are you familiar with Jayadeva's Gita-Govinda?
Parsifal
Member
Dang. And here I thought I was the only person in the world who thought the exact same thing.
Well stated, Parsifal. :clap
Hey, thanks for the applause! It's greatly appreciated, since I'm just getting started here. Who knows, maybe I'll even start garnering some frubals.
Here's a link: Andal : Poems and Biography
Cool!I was intrigued by that term, bridal mysticism, and am glad to find out more about it. I took a look at your blog from your signature link, and was further intrigued, but disappointed that there doesn't seem to be a set-up to comment on your posts. But now I can do it here
Yeah... sorry about the lack of a comment feature; because my approach to Krishna is rather unorthodox, and after a couple of run-ins with less sympathetic devotees in the past, I've chosen to keep it comment-free to avoid flame-wars on there. Yes; India's Song of Songs as they call it. :yes: It's beautiful. Vidyapati is another great poet, similar to Jayadeva in style and mood.
Yes, I saw your post -- thank you for chiming in over there, I do appreciate what you said very much!
Since that thread is in a DIR section of the site and my following observations may be perceived over there as attempting to debate, I'll post the following here:
I noticed that the first response you had gotten in that thread (post #38) hinted a little bit at how this particular bhava (madhurya) shouldn't really be spoken of. Although more subtly stated, it contained that element of fear concerning this particular bhava that seems prevalent.
I mean, I agree that "kiss and tell" isn't any more appropriate with God than it would be with a human partner, but that thread was more about just seeking input and guidance and even then people got uncomfortable.
I actually posted something about this 'madhurya-phobia' in my blog, illustrating the difference between how one article treated this bhava as compared to other bhavas: The Bhava Police, Revisited
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Shuddhasattva
Well-Known Member
lol, the bhava police. indeed.
Another pet peeve of mine is when people say that the Supreme's divine love should not be discussed in material terms. It is already being discussed in material terms. We are describing the supreme with human attributes, sporting in a human - if perfectly human - manner.
Another pet peeve of mine is when people say that the Supreme's divine love should not be discussed in material terms. It is already being discussed in material terms. We are describing the supreme with human attributes, sporting in a human - if perfectly human - manner.
Exactly! I never understood that, either. If such human activities are so unworthy, who came up with the idea of God engaging in them and incorporating those ideas into a religion's tradition?
I figure if some of God's activities weren't meant to be understood in conjugal terms, they should never have been presented in conjugal terms. When this stuff is presented in the context of romance and then objections are raised when people take it that way, it reminds me of a woman who dresses provocatively to get a guy's attention and then smacks him upside the head for having the audacity to appreciate her efforts.
It comes across so much like a religious head-game designed to keep adherents feeling off balance and unsure of God's love for them. :yes: