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Spirituality vs Mental Health

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
I don't like that overly subjective attitude of "It works for me, therefore it must be good" o_O. Buddhist meditation, for example, is strongly discouraged for people with a pathologically weak self, because Buddhism teaches that there is no self. Through Buddhist meditation, you may cause or nurture depersonalization and free-floating thoughts without connection to the self. When these free-floating thoughts are perceived as external - schizophrenia.

I think religion / spirituality, like almost everything, involves questions of "dosage". "All things are poison and nothing is without poison, only the dose permits something not to be poisonous." (Paracelsus)

My attitude is it works for me great. No guarantee it's going to work for you.
I understand some may do better with faith based beliefs.
 

ppp

Well-Known Member
Religious and spiritual factors are increasingly being examined in psychiatric research. Religious beliefs and practices have long been linked to hysteria, neurosis, and psychotic delusions. However, recent studies have identified another side of religion that may serve as a psychological and social resource for coping with stress. After defining the terms religion and spirituality, this paper reviews research on the relation between religion and (or) spirituality, and mental health, focusing on depression, suicide, anxiety, psychosis, and substance abuse. The results of an earlier systematic review are discussed, and more recent studies in the United States, Canada, Europe, and other countries are described. While religious beliefs and practices can represent powerful sources of comfort, hope, and meaning, they are often intricately entangled with neurotic and psychotic disorders, sometimes making it difficult to determine whether they are a resource or a liability.
Research on religion, spirituality, and mental health: a review - PubMed


With regard to mental well-being, do you see religion as a resource or a liability?

In the long run, I see faith based religions as liabilities. IOW, you have to believe in some final reward of benefit that will happen in some conceptualized afterlife. The product is hope. Hope can motivate the individual to continue on and overcome the struggles of life.

Whereas something like Buddhism provides tangible benefits to mental well being that can be experienced as a result of the practice. Which improves mental agility allowing one to deal directly with things like depression, loss, fears etc.
I think that is too large a question. There is a difference between religious beliefs' and religious practices. As per your example of Buddhism, meditation provides all sorts of health benefits, both mental and physical. But why? Is it because of the nature of our nervous systems, or because of some non-material cause? How would you determine a non-material cause?
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
Prayer has never been demonstrated to produce any discernible results, only anecdotal subjective claims, and this includes empirical research, where it was tested under double blind clinical conditions.



I see two subjective claims and no attempt to evidence them, and if it passes all understanding, then it logically follows you can't make assertions about it. Appeals to mystery have no explanatory powers.

I see an Atheist heckler on a religious forum denying the power of prayer.

You seem to have a poor grasp of debate, and this is a debate forum, as you've been told. If your beliefs are too fragile for debate then it is not mandatory, and there are numerous forums on this site for the kind of echo chamber of your beliefs you seem to be seeking. Attacking me with petty ad hominem, is not debate.

Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer (STEP) in cardiac bypass patients:

"Conclusions: Intercessory prayer itself had no effect on complication-free recovery from CABG, but certainty of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with a higher incidence of complications."

Long-Awaited Medical Study Questions the Power of Prayer

"Prayers offered by strangers had no effect on the recovery of people who were undergoing heart surgery, a large and long-awaited study has found.
And patients who knew they were being prayed for had a higher rate of post-operative complications like abnormal heart rhythms, perhaps because of the expectations the prayers created, the researchers suggested.
Because it is the most scientifically rigorous investigation of whether prayer can heal illness, the study, begun almost a decade ago and involving more than 1,800 patients, has for years been the subject of speculation."
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
Interesting hypothesis, were did you get that? I know about Freud's classification of "Ich", "Es" and "Über-ich" (that is "Ego", "Id" and "shadow"?) and I know of Jung's "collective unconscious" but the rest is new to me.

Many years ago, during grad school, I went to therapy at that school, to come to terms with inhibitions that were connected to my upbringing in religion. Over the next year with the help of friends and circumstances, I reached a state of self actualization. Although this had been the goal of therapy, it all seemed anti-climatic when it occurred. The march to that goal, was the most enjoyable part. Afterwards, I felt I wanted more than just being a healthy ego in culture. This is when I discovered Carl Jung and his thesis of the Archetypes of the Collective Unconscious, during a trip to the local book store.

Jung's thesis was less about our unique ego, and more about collective human potential that we all share; human nature common to all. To help define and describe the collective unconscious, Jung made extensive use of collective human symbolism, much of it from the world's religions. This made him less popular among the various orientations of psychology, since it rubbed Atheism the wrong way. Atheism did not wish religion to have any credit, for anything, and Jung brought religion into science, via the world wide similarities within collective human symbolism.

As a scientist, who was also still spiritual from my youth, I wanted to see and experience the collective unconscious for myself, and not just read about it and memorize. So, I decided to perform unconscious mind experiments on myself to see for myself. This started with recording my dreams each morning. I did this for over a year. I would awaken and while drinking my morning coffee at work I would write in dream journal and later that day analyze the symbols.

As time went on, this attention to the unconscious mind started to induced spontaneous symbolism from the unconscious mind, which increasingly gave me my first hand experiences of the collective unconscious. Science needs to see to believe. As a scientist, I was following that path by becoming both the scientist; observer, and the experiment; collective unconscious induction dynamics.

There was times when I would dream symbolism, only to read about these in books by Jung, I had never seen before, the next day; synchronicity. Cause and affect was often reversed compared to expectations. This is how I knew I was not reading and dreaming what I had read; expected cause and affect.

These early experiments; interaction, lasted another year and I was able to map out the layers of my psyche, including the collective unconscious and inner self, based on only the first hand data from the inside. This had the unintended affect of dissociating my personality since the differentiation into the details had broken apart its natural integration. A synchronicity was connect to my starting to read Jungs most challenging work; Mysterium Coniunctionis, which was Latin for the Mystical Union; symbols of transformation.

This begins the stage where the inner self would induce scenarios. I needed to solve these riddles coming from the subroutines that were active. The alchemists called it the 1000-fold distillation. These started easy and when you solved a puzzle I would get a dose of endorphins that made me feel timeless. As this buzz ended; few minutes, another puzzle would appear. As puzzles got more complicated, it would go on night and day, with as many as seven subroutines on at the same time. When it was done; two months, I was spit out and back to normal.

The inner self had taken over and led me through a type of healing process that helped me to reintegrate the firmware, but with my ego now more of a part of that final integration. This resulted in an interactive rapport. Much of my extrapolation of psychology is based on these experiments and the unique data; both the differentiation and the integration stages, I was able to generate and observe in the first person.

It was very dangerous and I would not do it again. I was younger and naive which seemed to offer me protection based on my unbiased approach. It was done with will power at the beginning, until the operating system had a mind of its own; inner self. I even had to develop what I called "Thought Dimensionality Theory", to help me record and analyze real time data, while I was neck deep in unconscious dynamics; many animated subroutines from the collective symbolism. I could plot the data and analyze it by looking at the plots.

I have tried to share that research over the years, but people in psychology of the ego, get bent out of shape, since they are not used to the idea of anyone being the scientist and the experiment to collective first hand data of deeper level subroutines. That was considered crazy, but it was needed to explore those deeper parts of the operating system, where first hand science of the mind, stops.

One thing that did result was I developed an interactive rapport with my inner self. This made me very creative, in all areas of knowledge, since they are all rooted in these collective firmware. This allows me to extend the frontiers against the comfort of the collective. I was correct about higher human potential. But being in the future makes it harder to influence the present.
 
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CinnamonCrow

New Member
Religious and spiritual factors are increasingly being examined in psychiatric research. Religious beliefs and practices have long been linked to hysteria, neurosis, and psychotic delusions. However, recent studies have identified another side of religion that may serve as a psychological and social resource for coping with stress. After defining the terms religion and spirituality, this paper reviews research on the relation between religion and (or) spirituality, and mental health, focusing on depression, suicide, anxiety, psychosis, and substance abuse. The results of an earlier systematic review are discussed, and more recent studies in the United States, Canada, Europe, and other countries are described. While religious beliefs and practices can represent powerful sources of comfort, hope, and meaning, they are often intricately entangled with neurotic and psychotic disorders, sometimes making it difficult to determine whether they are a resource or a liability.
Research on religion, spirituality, and mental health: a review - PubMed


With regard to mental well-being, do you see religion as a resource or a liability?

In the long run, I see faith based religions as liabilities. IOW, you have to believe in some final reward of benefit that will happen in some conceptualized afterlife. The product is hope. Hope can motivate the individual to continue on and overcome the struggles of life.

Whereas something like Buddhism provides tangible benefits to mental well being that can be experienced as a result of the practice. Which improves mental agility allowing one to deal directly with things like depression, loss, fears etc.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Religious and spiritual factors are increasingly being examined in psychiatric research. Religious beliefs and practices have long been linked to hysteria, neurosis, and psychotic delusions. However, recent studies have identified another side of religion that may serve as a psychological and social resource for coping with stress. After defining the terms religion and spirituality, this paper reviews research on the relation between religion and (or) spirituality, and mental health, focusing on depression, suicide, anxiety, psychosis, and substance abuse. The results of an earlier systematic review are discussed, and more recent studies in the United States, Canada, Europe, and other countries are described. While religious beliefs and practices can represent powerful sources of comfort, hope, and meaning, they are often intricately entangled with neurotic and psychotic disorders, sometimes making it difficult to determine whether they are a resource or a liability.
Research on religion, spirituality, and mental health: a review - PubMed


With regard to mental well-being, do you see religion as a resource or a liability?

In the long run, I see faith based religions as liabilities. IOW, you have to believe in some final reward of benefit that will happen in some conceptualized afterlife. The product is hope. Hope can motivate the individual to continue on and overcome the struggles of life.

Whereas something like Buddhism provides tangible benefits to mental well being that can be experienced as a result of the practice. Which improves mental agility allowing one to deal directly with things like depression, loss, fears etc.
Although psychotic people can have religious delusions, it doesn't follow that religion itself is indicative of psychosis (or hysteria or neurosis). Indeed the most current research indicates that involvement in a religious community is a buffer against anxiety and depression. I'm not sure what your "PubMed" source is, but psychology accepts spirituality as a basically healthy thing. Therapists are taught to respect a person's spirituality, not treat it as some kind of disorder. All of the programs for dual diagnosis clients (addicts with mental problems) that I am familiar with include a chaplain.
 

CinnamonCrow

New Member
Religious and spiritual factors are increasingly being examined in psychiatric research. Religious beliefs and practices have long been linked to hysteria, neurosis, and psychotic delusions. However, recent studies have identified another side of religion that may serve as a psychological and social resource for coping with stress. After defining the terms religion and spirituality, this paper reviews research on the relation between religion and (or) spirituality, and mental health, focusing on depression, suicide, anxiety, psychosis, and substance abuse. The results of an earlier systematic review are discussed, and more recent studies in the United States, Canada, Europe, and other countries are described. While religious beliefs and practices can represent powerful sources of comfort, hope, and meaning, they are often intricately entangled with neurotic and psychotic disorders, sometimes making it difficult to determine whether they are a resource or a liability.
Research on religion, spirituality, and mental health: a review - PubMed


With regard to mental well-being, do you see religion as a resource or a liability?

In the long run, I see faith based religions as liabilities. IOW, you have to believe in some final reward of benefit that will happen in some conceptualized afterlife. The product is hope. Hope can motivate the individual to continue on and overcome the struggles of life.

Whereas something like Buddhism provides tangible benefits to mental well being that can be experienced as a result of the practice. Which improves mental agility allowing one to deal directly with things like depression, loss, fears etc.

Being that psychology and psychiatry started off as a way to torture and punish people with serious illnesses and people who were just different and psychoanalysis is based on the sexual obsessions of a cocaine addicted madman who believed in penis envy and hysteria, I still, even in modern times, find it hard not to look at it through a sceptical lens.
Due to the fact that religion is based on primitive societal assumptions of how the world worked and had limited understanding of illness, and medical science, I still am skeptical.
This does not mean that there are not cases in which proper psycological and psychiatric care do not work. Also, this does not mean there is no value in the study and application of religion to the human psyche.
I would say there are several factors which make both these systems beneficial and dangerous in the application of addressing stress and illness in the human condition.
I have received both healing and abusive care from modern psychiatry. I have also received a lot of abuse at the hands of radical religios people, sexism in various religious disciplines, and prejudice about my disabilities promoted by various religious doctrines.
I have also found, peace, positive motivation and relief from stress in my daily life through my personal spiritual practices. There are so many variables involved in human life that there really cannot be such a simplistic view of how psychiatry, relihion and illness will affect each individual.
 
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