Spiritually Handicapped?

[RavenRose]

"If you can come directly to God without having to go through Christ then wouldn't you want to ?"

You make Christ sound like so sort of burden in the way of God. To Christianis... it is the exact opposite! Besides the fact that he says he is the only way - I don't see why you'd want to "find a way around him." His message is a message of love.

 

[Master Hoomer]

It is an extremely bad sign - as in the case of Christ - that a Rabbi seeks glory for himself.

Christ NEVER sought glory for himself...like duh! he was a carpenter....not Michael Jackson

AGreed raven...Jesus taught LOVE...

I will not comment anymore....as its getting "hot" in here...

 

[Stained_Class]

If you can come directly to God without having to go through Christ then wouldn't you want to ?

Ah yes, this is what's known as the "Interstate Rush Hour Fallacy", where rush hour consumes the road raged driver, so he/she seeks and utilizes the various back roads to reach the ultimate destination. If someone proclaims not to be a Christian, then I do not think it would matter much.

Wondering if "truth seeker" is a Christian or not, the former would make myself wonder the reason for the question, the latter ... well, does it really matter?

I believe the St. Thomas scrolls said something to the effect that Jesus stated "the Kingdome of God is in you" ... but not too many "higher ups" liked that one. So St. Thomas is longer among us today.

 

[Green Gaia]

Do you think it is possible that in some way an individual may be unable to sense God. At all? Not that they don't BELIEVE in God (and I'm not talking about whether they NEED to believe in a god, but whether they CAN), but that they, for some reason, are physically unable to.

Absolutely! Let me tell you a little bit about my spiritual history to explain: I was raised in a strict Christian church, the Church of Chirst to be exact. I went to this church 3 times a week (Sunday morning and evening, and Wednesday night Bible study) from the time I can remember until I was in high school. Around the time I was 10, 11, 12.. people started pressuring me to commit my life to Jesus and be baptized. This was a big deal to them, and I was told that the Spirit would move me to make this commitment and so on. Well, I never felt that. Instead of wanting to commit myself I had many, many questions about God and they way they taught me about God that I had never made sense to me, but one big rule was, never question. Needless to say, the last couple years my family and I went to this church, were uncomfortable for me. Luckily, while I was in high school, my parents started questioning what this church was teaching as well, (I had not shared any of my feelings with them about it) and decided to stop attending that church. It wasn't until I quit going to that church and was no longer in that "controlled" environment that I realized I had never had a personal relationship with "God". So I started reading and researching and studying on my own about spirituality, and once I sought a real connection with God, I found it. So for me, I believe I did have a spiritual handicap that kept me from knowing God, and that was because of the strict and controlled church I was brought up it. Now this connection didn't happen overnight, it took many years to work thru and disgard all the baggage I had learned. For a long time I was very angry, angry at my parents for taking me to that church (I realize now they didn't know any better at the time) and angry at the church for stifling my spirituality and not letting me come to God in my own way. But I got over that and am now grateful that while it was painful at the time, I have a better understanding of how I DO believe and what I believe God wants for us because I can look back and know that even as a child and even though I didn't recognize that connection with God, she was speaking to me and telling me that church was not my path and it was OK to find my own.

So basically I see it as, we are all different, we all have the same basic human needs, but also have individual phsyical, emotional and spiritual needs. To try to fulfill everyone's needs the same way is unrealistic and if someone is trying to fulfill their needs in a way that is not spiritually satisfying, then I would call that a handicap. Not sure if that answered the question, but there you go lol.

 

[Runt]

Wow...

Maize, I didn't even realize how off topic this "discussion" had gotten until you commented on the original question.

Not that it is necessarily BAD that we get off topic... it means we are actually discussing things... but still... wow.

 

[dudley thoth]

to Runt.

difficult question.

here goes...

i am spiritually handicaped.
this morning i woke up and God was not on my mind. he wasn't even in my heart. i made a cup of tea, lit a cigarette, swiched on the t.v, and just sat there in my well worn chair contemplating how terrible the world is and everyone in it. every now and again i tried to pray. "Lord forgive meeee";"i cant go on!"; "life is toooo much", and so on.
yes i am spiritually handicaped.
after a couple of hours of doom and depression. i tried to study. i'm writing a book about pre-historic religion. i reluctantly picked up my concordence and began to trudge through the various references to Jesus glory/glorifing/glorious and so on. as i read, every now and again passages of scripture would catch my eye and my attitude steadily began to change until at last i could once again say "thank you God i believe!!" he was back in my mind and in my heart, but to tell you the truth, i think he was there all along. Jesus lives in all our hearts, from the worst to the greatest of us, and not just those who believe. all goodess is truly his. and even terrible men can reveal Jesus within themselves. without him in our hearts there would be nothing good. he lives in your heart waiting for you to seek him. he is gracious and he is is just and Kind. hes talking to you now. see ya.

 

[Hirohito18200]

Assuming that this is from the standpoint of Christian Docterine.....

I don't know the specific verse(s), but it is mentioned in both the NT and OT that God makes himself known to all man through his creation, being the universe. It is also said that anyone who still refuses to acknoledge him will go to hell. This is, however, completely unrelated to the whole going to hell ignorant of Christ topic, but as that is not the point of this topic, I'll refrain.

Hope this helped.

 

[Runt]

It did, but in a way that perhaps you didn't realize... moving this topic into the debate forum now...

 

[PhAA]

I've visited a mental institution once. And the patients there can be very knowledgeable regarding religion. But I don't think that they are in their right mind to really comprehend it. Mentally ill people experiences hallucinations and delusions, and it can be triggered by what they see or hear. So if you teach them religion and they may seem to be religious, but if they truly understand or accept it, I don't know. Maybe not.

 

[Oneatatime]

The general Christian belief is that people who know and sense God and still deny His existence are damned because they did not accept Jesus as their personal savior.

However, what if the situation were slightly different than this? What if, instead of consciously denying the existence of God, an individual were spiritually handicapped and could not sense His presence at all?

A bishop at a church I once went to said that people who are mentally retarded basically go through life as innocents and are admitted freely into Heaven because they do not have the mental capacity to truly grasp the concept of God OR to truly understand sin and repentance.

Is it not possible that there are spiritual handicaps as well as physical ones? That someone might actually have the inability to know or sense God? If people can be blind physically, is it not possible that they could also be blind or deaf spiritually, and be unable to see or hear or otherwise sense God?

If they were driven to atheism because of this, would it still be a sin? Or a handicap?

I guess my questions are twofold. First, do you think it is POSSIBLE to have a spiritual handicap such as this? And second, ASSUMING IT WAS POSSIBLE, would God forgive that person for their inability to accept Him, just as He would forgive a retarded person who was unable to grasp the concept of Jesus’s dying for their sins or a crazy person unable to sense the difference between good and evil?

It is not a spiritual handicap but rather the lack of a predisposition to view experiences and feelings within the context of a given religion. If we both looked at the stars we'd both feel wonder but whereas you'd attribute it to God I'd attribute it to a sense of being part of a vast and beautiful universe.

Its not uncommon for biased individuals to attempt to rationalise their beliefs by denigrating those that don't share their bias. Atheists don't see the world within the context of your particular religion therefore there must be something wrong with them.

Its like saying that anyone who doesn't agree with your is clearly slow, unintellegent and dim-whitted. Its also important to note that no arguement is made for why they are wrong, only that they are, with some insults thrown in to undermine that persons credibility rather than their arguement. This is known as an ad hominim and those unable to form a good arguement sometimes resort to it.

Its not always innapropriate to highlight the other sides deficiences where relevent to the subject matter in hand but that isn't the case here. The OP is just saying that because atheists can't feel the presence of an imaginary God that there is something wrong with them.

 

[Penumbra]

I wouldn't call it a handicap, but I observe that there are different levels of disposition towards spirituality.

Some people seem to be disposed to spirituality in numerous forms. Some people are more prone to find really value and intense experience in things like prayer. Some people are more likely to experience some intense mystical experience (and often they say it happened randomly or out of nowhere).

Others don't seem to have this disposition. Others don't find any value in prayer, and feel nothing with it. Others will go their entire lives without any mystical experience.

I've visited a mental institution once. And the patients there can be very knowledgeable regarding religion. But I don't think that they are in their right mind to really comprehend it. Mentally ill people experiences hallucinations and delusions, and it can be triggered by what they see or hear. So if you teach them religion and they may seem to be religious, but if they truly understand or accept it, I don't know. Maybe not.

As an aside, resurrecting a 7 year old thread might be the record for thread resurrections I've personally witnessed.

 

[PhAA]

It is an extremely bad sign - as in the case of Christ - that a Rabbi seeks glory for himself.

Christ NEVER sought glory for himself...like duh! he was a carpenter....not Michael Jackson

AGreed raven...Jesus taught LOVE...

I will not comment anymore....as its getting "hot" in here...

If you look at it at another perspective, jesus might really be seeking glory. Just like in American Idol or other contest shows. A nobody wanting to be somebody.