State of the Dead & Punishment/Reward (Christians Only)

[coconut theology]

State of the Dead & Punishment/Reward (Christians Only)

Here is a video presentation on the matter (which you may consider):

Or Download Here - https://archive.org/download/sincer...rely Dead - Aaron Earnest - June 22, 2019.mp4

Or PowerPoint Here - https://archive.org/download/sincerely-dead/Sincerely Dead.pptx

These materials are not given to supercede discussion/study, but to have a foundation to begin with.

Some premises:

The Bible (KJB) teaches conditional immortality, that mankind is inherently mortal.

The Bible (KJB) teaches the annihilation (2nd death) of the finally impenitent at the end when they are raised and judged.

The Bible (KJB) teaches that in the first death, because of Christ Jesus who died for every person of mankind, mankind sleeps in the grave knowing nothing, unable to experience anything until God resurrects them at their appointed times.​

The Bible (KJB)

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
Ecc 9:7 Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.
Ecc 9:8 Let thy garments be always white; and let thy head lack no ointment.
Ecc 9:9 Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun.
Ecc 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
​

Reward of the wicked after they are raised and judged, annihilation:

Eze_28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.​

True Christians have always held to these things, even as the Hebrews had before them.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
Ecc 9:7 Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.
Ecc 9:8 Let thy garments be always white; and let thy head lack no ointment.
Ecc 9:9 Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun.
Ecc 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

I don't want to argue a position on Ecclesistes. I also have quoted Ecclesiastes, however I have heard it said to me that the author of Ecclesiastes was ignorant of salvation. That is, they are unable to see through their particular veil. Have you heard this kind of remark?

Some premises:

The Bible (KJB) teaches conditional immortality, that mankind is inherently mortal.

The Bible (KJB) teaches the annihilation (2nd death) of the finally impenitent at the end when they are raised and judged.

The Bible (KJB) teaches that in the first death, because of Christ Jesus who died for every person of mankind, mankind sleeps in the grave knowing nothing, unable to experience anything until God resurrects them at their appointed times.

I am familiar with this line of reasoning which is consistent with a particular interpretation of the book Revelation. It has its strengths and weaknesses as do all arguments. It also has the benefit of not accusing God of torturing people in fire for an eternity.

I have started to think that the resurrection leaves behind all that is human. Paul seems to say that resurrection is literal, but he is spotty on that. I think he's making a figure of speech. In gospels Jesus says to the Sadducee that God is not the God of the dead but of the living, however Jesus is notoriously ambiguous when he speaks, purposely ambiguous and only explains things to his disciples. To his disciples he literally says that repentance is resurrection. To me this also better fits self denial than the idea of resurrection of individuals. So, really, I think he's not suggesting individual resurrections. He also prays that God's will be done on Earth as it is in heaven. This sounds like an acceptance of God's judgment against human flesh. What remains is to ask what a spiritual body is, since that is the only kind of resurrection we can expect. To me, it is all about, apparently, not ourselves but some not-us thing which is resurrected.

 

[Eyes to See]

I have heard it said to me that the author of Ecclesiastes was ignorant of salvation

So much for hearsay eh? Don't use it as your guide.

Solomon was known for his wisdom. Kings and queens from far away came seeking his wisdom. The queen of Sheba told him:

“The report that I heard in my own land about your achievements and about your wisdom was true. 7 But I did not put faith in the reports until I had come and had seen it with my own eyes. And look! I had not been told the half. You have far surpassed in wisdom and prosperity the report that I heard. 8 Happy are your men, and happy are your servants who stand before you constantly, listening to your wisdom!"-1 Kings 10:6-8.

Solomon dedicated the great temple to Jehovah wherein sacrifices on behalf of the sins of the people were made to Jehovah. Now do you really believe that he didn't understand that humankind needed salvation?

 

[coconut theology]

I don't want to argue a position on Ecclesistes. I also have quoted Ecclesiastes, however I have heard it said to me that the author of Ecclesiastes was ignorant of salvation. That is, they are unable to see through their particular veil. Have you heard this kind of remark?

Yes, but such an remark is utterly ignorant of the book of Ecclesiastes, or at the least is surface reading without reading the conclusion, and other places in scripture in regards Solomon. For instance:

The last chapter is the summary:

Ecc 12:1 Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them;
Ecc 12:2 While the sun, or the light, or the moon, or the stars, be not darkened, nor the clouds return after the rain:
Ecc 12:3 In the day when the keepers of the house shall tremble, and the strong men shall bow themselves, and the grinders cease because they are few, and those that look out of the windows be darkened,
Ecc 12:4 And the doors shall be shut in the streets, when the sound of the grinding is low, and he shall rise up at the voice of the bird, and all the daughters of musick shall be brought low;
Ecc 12:5 Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:
Ecc 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Ecc 12:8 Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity.
Ecc 12:9 And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out, and set in order many proverbs.
Ecc 12:10 The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth.
Ecc 12:11 The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd.
Ecc 12:12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.
Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Ecc 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.​

Notice that "all scripture" (even Ecclesiastes) is given by the Holy Ghost/Spirit:

2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

2Pe_1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.​

Solomon is a type of Jesus Christ:

https://archive.org/download/typology-solomon/Typology - Solomon.pptx​

You see, Solomon, as the wise man, the "Preacher", as a type of Jesus Christ, was speaking to his son, warning him of the foolishness of living a life without God.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Can I ask quickly, since it says "Christians Only" what qualifies one as a Christian? Did you mean by that, that only Christians should post here? Could you just quickly clarify some easy ways one can be considered a Christian or not a Christian by your standards? Like, would anyone who believes Jesus was the Christ, born of the virgin Mary, who God miraculously brought forth without any sort of sexual act, who was sent as the Christ / Messiah to the Children of Israel and showed them miracles, who was said to be executed, but who appeared to show that he lives and that the Good News was true, would one such person, who believes that, be considered a Christian, or is that not enough really to be considered some sort of Christian?

 

[Brickjectivity]

Too late D.V.M.A.Z. They have left the site or else have been banned. Expect no reply.
@DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan