Stealing a loaf of bread

[mr.guy]

It does no such thing, ffh. Outside of the introduction, it barely touches theology; i can't at present even think any christian parallels. Unless you'd wanna equate jean valjean as a christ figure. He doesn't make a very good one, though.

 

[FFH]

Remember the two thieves who died on their crosses next to Jesus? One accepted Jesus Christ as the Messiah and the other did not. Jesus turned to the thief on his right, who had accepted him as the Messiah, and said, "Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise."

Luke 23: 43.

 

[standing_alone]

Wow, this thread has got so off topic. But I like it! It turned way more interesting! :bounce

 

[mr.guy]

That didn't happen in Les Miserables.

 

[FFH]

There are several versions of "Les Miserable" on film. Rent them all and you will get a better picture of what the author was trying to convey. It is a story about mercy and justice. When should we show mercy and when should we show justice. Jean Valjean was given a 20 year sentence of hard labor, in chains, for stealing a loaf of bread. He breaks away and runs to a priest's house and tries to steal his silver candle holders and such. The priest catches him and decides to give him a second chance at life and lets him go. This is the mercy of God.

The rest of the story plays out from there.

 

[Bishka]

I am sure Victor Hugo did not intend it to be a story of Christ and redemption, but hey, that's just my opinion.

 

[mr.guy]

Dude, that's just the first 80 pages. What some would call the "introduction". That's a poor characterization of the book.

Secondly, priestly actions are not "god's" actions...this particular priest (bishop of digne) was notably benevolent, and is to be considered anomalous (says hugo). Altruism is a better theme when addressing jean valjean, rather then his piety.

 

[Bishka]

Dude, that's just the first 80 pages. What some would call the "introduction". That's a poor characterization of the book.

Secondly, priestly actions are not "god's" actions...this particular priest (bishop of digne) was notably benevolent, and is to be considered anomalous (says hugo). Altruism is a better theme when addressing jean valjean, rather then his piety.

woo. You get frubalized!

 

[FFH]

In "Les Miserable" Jean Valjean spends his life being persued by his former prison warden. The prison warden represents "justice". We spend our lives with the threat of justice hanging over our heads for the big and small evil deeds that we do. We need to draw upon the mercies of God, through his son Jesus Christ, to satisfy justice. The mercies of or God will then let us go free. Justice will no longer have control over us. Justice died on the cross with Jesus Christ. The warden kills himself in the end.

 

[mr.guy]

Javert wasn't a warden, he was an inspector. He was a guard on valjeans' chain gang after his first arrest. As for "satisfying justice", javert is never satisfied with any of valjeans deeds, no matter how benevolent. Javert in no way at all represents justice, he's a beurocratic zealot. Maybe rent the film (or better yet, the book) and then we'll talk.

 

[Bishka]

Javert wasn't a warden, he was an inspector. He was a guard on valjeans' chain gang after his first arrest. As for "satisfying justice", javert is never satisfied with any of valjeans deeds, no matter how benevolent. Javert in no way at all represents justice, he's a beurocratic zealot. Maybe rent the film (or better yet, the book) and then we'll talk.

True. I always saw Javert as a pompous, annoying, and has to get his way, kind of person. Didn't like him. I believe he committed suicide at the end because he'd rather die then have his reputation tarnished.

 

[FFH]

Warden-Inspector, Priest-Bishop, close enough. It's been a while.

 

[standing_alone]

Hmmm. Perhaps after reading all these posts I won't have to read the book... :sarcastic

 

[Bishka]

Warden-Inspector, Priest-Bishop, close enough. It's been a while.

Actually warden and inspector and preist and bishop are different things. If you've read the book, you'll know Hugo goes for description and he used those terms for a reason.

 

[mr.guy]

True. I always saw Javert as a pompous, annoying, and has to get his way, kind of person. Didn't like him. I believe he committed suicide at the end because he'd rather die then have his reputation tarnished.

Not quite. Javert is by no means an egomaniac; he killed himself when he realized how unfair and cruel his pursuit of jean valjean really was. Also, as previously stated, javert is judicialy obsessed. I presume he didn't handle the failure of his legal system, as it became plain to be faulty in the instance of jean valjean. It's interesting to note that his suicide note is a list of ten suggestions for the police force.

 

[michel]

I remember when I was a Christian and was in my confirmation class and the paster said something to the fact that, "If someone is starving they shouldn't steal a loaf of bread because it's a sin. If they're a believer and starve to death, they'll get to go to Heaven." I'm wondering how any of you feel about this, Christians especially. If someone is starving, is it okay for them to steal a loaf of bread (even if it's considered a sin) so they don't die a miserable death, or should they let themselves starve to death in case there is a is a Heaven? I myself say, "For the love of all that's holy, steal the loaf of bread!" I mean, hey, it's not like they haven't committed any other sins in their life, so what's wrong if they commit a sin so they don't starve?

It's not a stupid topic; it is a good one.

I agree with the point you are making. A good example of this sort of situation was during hurricane Katrina; during the aftermath, a black woman (I think she may have been a musical lady) stole a bus, filled it with all the survivors she could find, stopped off at a supermarket and looted the food section (to feed everyone on the bus).

I remember, as she told the story on telesision, how she reacted when asked how she felt about what she had done (had she felt guilty etc)....I shall never quite forget the way her eyes misted over as she recalled the feeling of feeling guilty - not at the taking of the bus, nor the food, but at passing many more people stranded in Orlando; the bus was completely full, and the only guilt was at the fact that she could not help all the others.......

Now that is Christianity. (In my book)

 

[standing_alone]

I shall never quite forget the way her eyes misted over as she recalled the feeling of feeling guilty - not at the taking of the bus, nor the food, but at passing many more people stranded in Orlando; the bus was completely full, and the only guilt was at the fact that she could not help all the others.......

If only there were more people in the world like her.

 

[Beck63Don]

Sounds like she did the sensible thing in an emergency.

 

[retrorich]

I would definitely steal the bread--and especially if I needed it for my children--but I would not steal if from someone who needed it as much as I did. From a store, OK.

But, of course, I'm an atheist, and some people believe we don't have ethics or morals.

 

[Bishka]

I would definitely steal the bread--and especially if I needed it for my children--but I would not steal if from someone who needed it as much as I did. From a store, OK.

But, of course, I'm an atheist, and some people believe we don't have ethics or morals.

I think sometimes atheists have better morals then other people. Because some Christians(not anybody here, I dont' think), believe that if you accept Christ you are saved and it doesn't matter if you sin or not anymore. I've actually met Christians like that. So I have great respect for atheists.