Stealing when you're hungry.

[The Hammer]

Suppose you're hungry, and can't afford food. Is it a sin

What was asked^^

Hunger is not, in and of itself, a license to steal.

Your strawman answer of a non asked question. ^^^

My post was in response to the OP which "literally ... asked":

No your response to the OP was to what you felt like they asked, just being hungry.
But the implication of not affording food changes the question dynamic. The question wasn't just about being hungry. I'm hungry now and it's not ok for me to steal. But if I was starving out on the streets and couldn't afford food another way. Steal it if necessary. Starvation is more of a sin then theft.

Get a life.

Eat a bag of Dick's ™

 

[Fool]

Hypothetical I want to pose to religious folk.

Suppose you're hungry, and can't afford food. Is it a sin (however you understand "sin") to steal food? Would God frown on the beggar who steals?

it isn't a sin to take something that is needed.


it is a sin to see or know someone is in need and not help them.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Hypothetical I want to pose to religious folk.

Suppose you're hungry, and can't afford food. Is it a sin (however you understand "sin") to steal food? Would God frown on the beggar who steals?

In our religion this is what it says about stealing,

They who dwell within the tabernacle of God, and are established upon the seats of everlasting glory, will refuse, though they be dying of hunger, to stretch their hands and seize unlawfully the property of their neighbor, however vile and worthless he may be. (Baha’u’llah)

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Yes, quality food should be available to all, regardless of income.

So bakers and farmers should work for free and not get paid?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Food is free. It's a theft to ask money for food. Food belongs to empty stomachs and NOT to wallets with money.

Based on what?

 

[Yerda]

Steal it if necessary. Starvation is more of a sin then theft.

I would agree there. Don't go dying of hunger because stealing is wrong. But don't steal if you can avoid it.

Generally, I don't think it is worth our while examining the morality of someone who steals to feed themselves or their family in the situation that they have no other option. What we should be looking at is the commodification of foodstuffs by financiers, speculators and multinationals and asking ourselves about the morality of a system that seeks to distribure the Earth's bounty according to market power as opposed to need. The world starves human beings while experiencing abundance in order that the shareholders can profit. This is obviously evil but for some weird reason we barely acknowledge it.

 

[pearl]

Why should I feel guilty about stealing food to survive?

Obviously, if you do not consider yourself in a covenant relationship with God, you won't.

 

[Glaurung]

Saint Thomas argues that extreme need removes the guilt of theft because everyone has the right to the maintenance of their own life.

It is not theft, properly speaking, to take secretly and use another's property in a case of extreme need: because that which he takes for the support of his life becomes his own property by reason of that need.
SUMMA THEOLOGIAE: Theft and robbery (Secunda Secundae Partis, Q. 66)​

 

[The Hammer]

Obviously, if you do not consider yourself in a covenant relationship with God, you won't.

Even if I did I wouldn't feel guilty for survival. And I doubt Yahweh would care either.

 

[The Hammer]

Based on what?

Common decency

 

[The Hammer]

In our religion this is what it says about stealing,

They who dwell within the tabernacle of God, and are established upon the seats of everlasting glory, will refuse, though they be dying of hunger, to stretch their hands and seize unlawfully the property of their neighbor, however vile and worthless he may be. (Baha’u’llah)

That's a shame. Imo

 

[The Hammer]

So bakers and farmers should work for free and not get paid?

There are other ways to pay someone besides money.

Until we get back to teaching everyone how to grow their own foods. Food should not be na expensive commodity. We shouldn't have things like "food deserts" in the US where fresh foods aren't available.

100 years ago, it took 50% of the population to feed the other 50%. That has gone down to 2% feeding the other 98.

We need a reeducate people on how feed and fend for themselves.

 

[pearl]

Even if I did I wouldn't feel guilty for survival. And I doubt Yahweh would care either.

Right. There is a difference between an act considered sinful, (stealing) out of desperation, and stealing because one is a thief.

 

[The Hammer]

Right. There is a difference between an act considered sinful, (stealing) out of desperation, and stealing because one is a thief.

And this thread is talking about survival theft. Imv

 

[Jainarayan]

Nope. Perfectly acceptable imo. As long as they aren't hurting others in the process.

In the west we have more food then we can eat, and more food "waste" that is perfectly suitable for consumption.

Like this. I do this every ... single ... day ... as part of my job. This food is no more than 2 days past its "Sell by" date, meaning it's good for consumption at least another 3-5 days. Generally the shopping cart is full, and then some. What's in the bin is what I already tossed from the cart. It's disgusting but there are no resources to either send it to food pantries, or to pick it up. Even if there were the food would be spoiled by then. The point is that we produce too much and waste too much. We receive shipments, pushed on us, that we didn't even order. My boss has a fit because what are we supposed to do with it now? Before I toss it i scan it to reduce it to 100% off the original price. That's "shrink" and a business loss. Yet, if I or any other employee were to take what we shrink, we'd be fired on the spot. Is that right, or wrong? I don't know, but it is what it is. And people are hungry.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Hypothetical I want to pose to religious folk.

Suppose you're hungry, and can't afford food. Is it a sin (however you understand "sin") to steal food? Would God frown on the beggar who steals?

Someone stealing food is the most forgivable offense in my book.

However it's preferred one asks before taking however.

 

[ajay0]

Hypothetical I want to pose to religious folk.

Suppose you're hungry, and can't afford food. Is it a sin (however you understand "sin") to steal food? Would God frown on the beggar who steals?

As per Hinduism, it is through the human body that enlightenment is attained, and so maintaining the body in good health is a virtue and duty. It also ensures that the mind is strong and clear.

Fasting as a spiritual exercise can be pursued creatively during temporary periods of little or no access to food, realizing it as an austerity that increases self-control as well as increasing healing prana or life-energy in the system. ( Fasting is said to have a beneficial effect on disease in general, and also develops quality of meditation.)

If there is life-threatening hunger due to issues beyond one's control, and no way of appeasing hunger by proper means, theft , imho, can be attempted from those who have abundant food but refuses to share out of miserliness, provided it does not escalate into other crimes of a higher gravity like murder or violence. This cannot be considered as a sin.

Again, these are worse case scenarios I am talking here, and hopefully no one will experience such a dilemna.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

There are other ways to pay someone besides money.

Until we get back to teaching everyone how to grow their own foods. Food should not be na expensive commodity. We shouldn't have things like "food deserts" in the US where fresh foods aren't available.

100 years ago, it took 50% of the population to feed the other 50%. That has gone down to 2% feeding the other 98.

We need a reeducate people on how feed and fend for themselves.

For starters, "not an expensive commodity" is very different from "free".

Secondly, what you propose is simply not workable.

How are you going to grow food when you live in an appartement, like most people do when living in a city? Let alone enough food for your own needs.

Also, the reason why it took 50% of people to process food back in the days, is because it all had to be done by hand. Today, a single farmer riding a big tractor pulling a big machine can work a giant field all by himself. And a lot more efficiently then was done back in the day by PLENTY of people. In fact, with the advances in AI and robotics, today it is actually already technically possible to create a fully automated farm where the "farmer" just has to check up on the monitors once in a while just to see that everything is still running smoothly.

Now, all those hands of those unnecessary extra's are freed up to do other work.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Like this. I do this every ... single ... day ... as part of my job. This food is no more than 2 days past its "Sell by" date, meaning it's good for consumption at least another 3-5 days. Generally the shopping cart is full, and then some. What's in the bin is what I already tossed from the cart. It's disgusting but there are no resources to either send it to food pantries, or to pick it up. Even if there were the food would be spoiled by then. The point is that we produce too much and waste too much. We receive shipments, pushed on us, that we didn't even order. My boss has a fit because what are we supposed to do with it now? Before I toss it i scan it to reduce it to 100% off the original price. That's "shrink" and a business loss. Yet, if I or any other employee were to take what we shrink, we'd be fired on the spot. Is that right, or wrong? I don't know, but it is what it is. And people are hungry.

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Yeah that's incredibly wasteful.

And such could easily be avoided simply by setting up a program where there are daily pickups at all supermarkets, grocery stores, bakers, butchers, etc... where that stuff could then be handed out to the homeless and the poor.

A few such programs actually exist in Belgium (very local though) but they are all on volunteer basis. And strictly speaking, also "illegal", as they are handing out food that is "legally" past their due date.
If it was a store that did that, they would be in trouble with the food safety commission.

It is condoned though, but I wonder what would happen to these initiatives the second someone has food poisoning (for whatever reason) after eating from it.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Common decency

You think it's theft to ask for money for food based on common decency?
Really?