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Stockholm and Lima Syndromes and the popularity of religious beliefs

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
Maybe some people's beliefs are based on some syndrome but many people truly believe in a God and base their beliefs on that. Again someone who wants to eliminate God from their life should not try to explain why other people believe in God. Instead explain why you do not believe.
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
Stockholm Syndrome, according to Wikipedia,

"is a condition that causes hostages to develop a psychological alliance with their captors as a survival strategy during captivity.[1] These feelings, resulting from a bond formed between captor and captives during intimate time spent together, are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims. Generally speaking, Stockholm syndrome consists of "strong emotional ties that develop between two persons where one person intermittently harasses, beats, threatens, abuses, or intimidates the other."[2]

Further ahead, under the heading of "As a coping mechanism", the current version of that article adds:

"From a psychoanalytic lens, it can be argued that Stockholm syndrome arises strictly as a result of survival instincts. Strentz states, “the victim’s need to survive is stronger than his impulse to hate the person who has created the dilemma.” A positive emotional bond between captor and captive is a “defense mechanism of the ego under stress”.[4] These sentimental feelings are not strictly for show however. Since captives often fear that their affection will be perceived as fake, they eventually begin to believe that their positive sentiments are genuine."

The article also describes a complementary affliction, Lima Syndrome:




The telltale signs are so clear as to make a direct statement seem unnecessary, but there seem to be many people who have not fully made the connection, so here it is:

Much of the supposed demographic "success" of Christianity and Islaam (and to a lesser degree other doctrines as well) comes from what is in reality a deliberate triggering of Stockhold Syndrome in large scale, made all the more effective due to numbers and the routine application of undue expectations from a very tender age, far too often literally from the cradle or even before birth, or even conception.

Many, many millions (perhaps well over a billion even) of people do not "believe" in their nominal doctrines nearly so much as they have duly accepted that their only choices are to decide whether their conflicts will be internal or external. It is all too common for infants to learn that there will not be peace in the family unless they go through the motions and fulfill some measure of the expectations of parents, family and friends who seem to sincerely believe that we all owe them some measure of agreement on those matters, despite them being utterly personal in nature.

Even the apologism of such doctrines is all too often rooted on fairly direct appeals to Stockholm Syndrome, while attempts to defend their legitimacy often rely on emphasizing examples of the complementary Lima Syndrome, among other reasons because this is a generational pattern where the oppressors are all too often utterly sincere and largely unconscious of the very possibility of doing better than repeating the pattern.

When whole societies engage in shameless proselitism as a matter of course, the damage is deep and lasting.

Perhaps ironically, a significant if arguably minor aspect of that damage is done to the very reputation of religion itself, as well as to its reputation.

These days there are many hundreds of millions of people who actually perceive religion as something to actively avoid, perhaps because what they have learned to understand by that name is the intense application of Stockholm and Lima Syndromes as opposed to any constructive activity.

smh. If there is anyone who is a prisoner to their faith, it's you and the other atheists. Are they willing to believe there is a God? No, they already disavow the existence of God. Their science prohibits them from peer-review that the supernatural exists. They believe humans can create life forms. If not, they believe an intelligent alien can create life forms. (Psst, isn't that a supernatural power?)

I, as a Christian, am a willing follower. What would make me not follow? If the Resurrection didn't happen and if there were no Bible. The "and" is important. We had a Bible, but it wasn't enough.
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
That which holds you captive is the belief that there is no afterlife. The belief that God didn't give us the greatest gift of all -- eternal life. He did, but we lost it. Now, we have a chance to get it back.
 

Politesse

Amor Vincit Omnia
As usual, an extremely vague analogy that would be impossible to support in any real way; very little of what we actually know about Stockholm syndrome could possibly apply to a whole social demographic. The entire description of the phenomenon is predicated on the assumption that it affects individuals, not groups, and many of the factors thought to contribute to its development makes no sense when applied to whole groups. Isolation, for instance. Even as an analogy, it is hard to make the case that everyone in a demographic could possibly fall under the same level of absolute isolation and control of information that a captive individual might be. Nor does it make sense to say that sympathy for a living individual is in any way comparable cognitively to sympathy for an abstract concept. And how could a concept remain in constant physical contact with the sufferer?
 
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icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
If there is anyone who is a prisoner to their faith, it's you and the other atheists. Are they willing to believe there is a God? No, they already disavow the existence of God. Their science prohibits them from peer-review that the supernatural exists.

Sorry, you really have it backwards. I'm more than willing to acknowledge the existence of supernatural beings. I just need good, solid, verifiable, repeatable evidence of such. In fact "our science" would be happy if you could provide peer-reviewable evidence, bring it on!
 

arthra

Baha'i
I doubt very much you can apply the Stockholm model to the generality of religious beliefs especially in today's world...

The definition of Stockholm syndrome or hostage bonding:

"...is a condition that causes hostages to develop a psychological alliance with their captors as a survival strategy during captivity..." applies to hostage situations and as the article states:

as well as when captors make captives doubt the likelihood of their survival by aggressively terrorizing them into “helpless, powerless, and submissive” states.

Stockholm syndrome - Wikipedia

With most communities children are exposed to their family's belief system in a less than threatening or hostage taking situations...

The only circumstance I'm familiar with is a kind of process known as "cult deprogramming" where the subject is isolated and exposed to repetitive messages over time..and kidnapping is sometimes involved:

Deprogramming has often been associated with kidnapping, which has in some cases been part of the procedure. The percentage stated of cases involving kidnapping varies considerably, depending on the source. Joseph Szimhart, a deprogrammer and self-described former cult member, says "until 1992, in a low percentage of my cases, included situations in which families elected to confine and sometimes abduct a 'cultist' to a deprogramming."

Deprogramming - Wikipedia
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
Sorry, you really have it backwards. I'm more than willing to acknowledge the existence of supernatural beings. I just need good, solid, verifiable, repeatable evidence of such. In fact "our science" would be happy if you could provide peer-reviewable evidence, bring it on!

I already have.

One has to peer-review the God Theory from creation scientists and go from there. The first piece of evidence we have is the Bible, a non-fictional historical document. The second is the Resurrection. Can you disprove the Resurrection?

As for the other religions, they do not have this.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
I already have.

One has to peer-review the God Theory from creation scientists and go from there. The first piece of evidence we have is the Bible, a non-fictional historical document. The second is the Resurrection. Can you disprove the Resurrection?

As for the other religions, they do not have this.

In this discussion, you are the one who is making the claims. You've said:

- the Bible is non-fiction
- the resurrection happened

Those are both extraordinary claims. They require extraordinary evidence.

Let's imagine that I claimed that there is a society of pink unicorns living on Saturn's moon Titan. Do you feel it's up to you to disprove my claim?
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I doubt very much you can apply the Stockholm model to the generality of religious beliefs especially in today's world...

I agree. Today's world is no longer quite that receptive to that passive-agressiveness.

Realizing that goes a long way towards explaining why so many people - even staunch dogmatic theists - have taken a disliking to the very idea of religion.

We are at a time of transition, when the stench of excessive proselitism is now widely denounced, yet not fully recognized for what it is.

It will take a few decades more until the need for true religious freedom is well understood, well accepted and well settled. In the meantime those ill prepared to deal with it will become increasingly desperate and aggressive, as perhaps best demonstrated by the so-called Creationists.
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
In this discussion, you are the one who is making the claims. You've said:

- the Bible is non-fiction
- the resurrection happened

Those are both extraordinary claims. They require extraordinary evidence.

Let's imagine that I claimed that there is a society of pink unicorns living on Saturn's moon Titan. Do you feel it's up to you to disprove my claim?

LMAO that a claim that a book in non-fiction is "extraordinary." The Guinness Book of World's Record lists the Bible as best selling work of non-fiction of all time. Many scholarly evidence for The Resurrection. Here are a couple of good starts -- Is There Historical Evidence for the Resurrection of Jesus? The Craig-Ehrman Debate | Reasonable Faith ;
7 Evidences in Support of the Resurrection

No one has been able to disprove the Resurrection and destroy Christianity, so your arguments are the typical mindless internet atheist blabber.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
No one has been able to disprove the Resurrection and destroy Christianity, so your arguments are the typical mindless internet atheist blabber.
You are engaging both in gloriously shameless reversion of onus of proof and in going off-topic in an equally epic way.

It is, so to speak, impressive. Not in a good or convincing way, make no mistake. But impressive nonetheless.
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
You are engaging both in gloriously shameless reversion of onus of proof and in going off-topic in an equally epic way.

It is, so to speak, impressive. Not in a good or convincing way, make no mistake. But impressive nonetheless.

You're guilty of quote mining. Isn't that a typical internet atheist method of distorting the truth?
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
Persistence is admirable. Under certain circunstances. Not under others.


I would not know. Apparently neither would you. So why do you ask?

Now you do. You're taking things out of context. I know because that's what I kept being accused of by the internet atheists.

Since we're talking about how much we know about God or no God... How much of an atheist are you? Dawkins says he is 6.9 where 7.0 is 100% positive there is no God. I am 100% sure there is a God and follow Jesus.
 

littlefire

You can call me Fio
I agree with a lot of the posters that the Stockholm Syndrome analogy is shaky when applied to dogmatic religions in a general sense. However, from my own experience, that analogy can hold weight in individual families and congregations. Fear-based control, gaslighting, false promises of unconditional love, isolation, and the like, can definitely produce those effects in religious adherents.
 
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