Stone & Trump

[dianaiad]

According to who? The problem with conspiracy theories is when people make them mainstream. Then we all get to enjoy lowering our IQ's together!


More of the same. Read above.


3 RW conspiracy theories = 3 strikes you're out!

No conspiracy theories here. No 'if, when, coulda/woulda." I'm going by stuff these guys actually said; caught on tape. Aloud. On record. YOU guys have to explain this stuff away, the bragging about Biden withholding money from Ukraine until they fired someone, the 'off mic' remarks of Obama saying that he would be more free to act after the election...

Sorry, but those things are very real, out there. Again, I don't have to explain them away. You do.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Typical socialist Democrat strong arm behavior.

Convict to the fullest extent possible on anyone who is not one of them.

 

[dianaiad]

And where are those supposed indictments, which can be brought forth even within lower federal courts and possibly even state courts depending on which laws may be violated?

Yep, with your post above, you've made it clear that you in of the "Lock Them Up!" camp that we at least used to call "lynch-mob mentality".

As for myself, I make no such judgement either way on the Bidens.

that's the point.

there are no indictments, because in spite of evidence that far out paces anything that you guys have come up against Trump, you don't care. It's fine.

When I compare what Biden did to all the 'coulda/wouldas" you guys have trumped up about that phone call, stuff you've had to manufacture and do all the 'supposed' stuff about, I do get frustrated. Here's Biden, BRAGGING on record about doing this quid pro quo about aid....and you guys don't care. You don't accuse him of wrong doing, and now here YOU are, figuring that because you don't accuse him of wrong doing, that no wrong was done.

the playing field is not even.
The standards are not the same.

 

[Stanyon]

From WHAT article?

The one linked in the o.p. it's there.

 

[Stanyon]

Just read another from CNN today sensationalizing this as some kind of unchecked power issue, just CNN doing what CNN does.
The prosecutors misrepresented their sentencing recommendations and they got shot down. Sorry folks, I know you need another conspiracy but it just isn't there.

 

[ecco]

Donald J. Trump has totally redeemed himself by leading "America into unprecedented economy prosperity

​

When Trump was a candidate, and even before, he often claimed that the Obama economic number were false - example:

Trump doubts government reports of low unemployment - Marketplace
Trump and his son, Donald Trump Jr. have repeatedly charged in speeches and interviews that government unemployment statistics are politically manipulated to make the Obama administration look better. They claim that the actual jobless rate is much higher — by a factor of five or more.​

Given Trump's penchant for lying and manipulation and his very loyal department heads, there is every reason to believe that Trump's glowing statistics are manufactured.

Check out the actual news about closing and bankruptcies in the retail industry:

https://www.businessinsider.com/stores-closing-in-2019-list-2019-3
More than 9,300 stores are closing in 2019 as the retail apocalypse drags on — here's the full list
Hayley Peterson

Dec 23, 2019, 1:25 PM

• More than 9,300 stores are expected to close in 2019.
• A.C. Moore, Sears, Kmart, Party City, Walgreens, and Barneys, are among the retailers that have recently announced store closings.
• Charlotte Russe, Family Dollar, and Chico's announced more than 1,100 store closures in a span of 24 hours.
• Payless has said it plans to close all of its 2,500 stores in what could be the largest retail liquidation in history.

The staggering rate of store closures that rocked the retail industry over the past couple of years continued in 2019, with retailers setting a new record for store closings over the last 12 months.

Retailers announced plans to close more than 9,300 stores in 2019, smashing the previous record of roughly 8,000 store closures in 2017, according to an analysis by Business Insider.​

Check out stories of farmers:

Farm Bankruptcies Surge : NPR

Nov 10, 2019

The auto industry...
Why are so many auto plants closing? | IndustriALL Mar 5, 2019


GM, Ford and others cut thousands of jobs and closed ...
Dec 23, 2019 - DETROIT – General Motors, Ford Motor and other automakers in the past year cut thousands of jobs and shuttered factories as industry vehicle ...
​

Others...

Factory jobs are again shrinking in industrial Midwestern states

Oct 1, 2019 -

Job Losses in 2019 Highest in 4 Years as Manufacturing and ...
Oct 3, 2019 -
​

Surely his beloved coal miners are doing great:

fortune.com › 2019/10/17 › us-coal-industry-layoffs-job-loss

The U.S. Coal Industry Is Expecting Another Wave of ... - Fortune
Oct 17, 2019 - The coal industry in America is headed for more sweeping layoffs. ... America's Coal County is headed for widespread job cuts:
​

This is an interesting Google entry...

coal mining jobs - Bureau of Labor Statistics

No information is available for this page.



​

Trump's numbers are lies, lies, and lies. Retail, farm, factory and even coal stats are proof that Trump's numbers are lies.

 

[Ouroboros]

I guess you have read a copy of the indictment. Could you post a link to it so we could all see if your assessment is correct.

Now you got me curious in finding it, so I had to find the link. Just an FYI for anyone interested.

https://www.justice.gov/file/1124706/download

 

[ecco]

What it really boils down to is 7-9 years for talking trash to someone on a telephone. That's pretty absurd.

Now you got me curious in finding it, so I had to find the link. Just an FYI for anyone interested.

https://www.justice.gov/file/1124706/download

Thank you for finding and posting it.


This is what Mindmaster considers "talking trash".

12. After the July 22, 2016 release of stolen DNC emails by Organization 1, a senior Trump Campaign official was directed to contact STONE about any additional releases and what other damaging information Organization 1 had regarding the Clinton Campaign. STONE thereafter told the Trump Campaign about potential future releases of damaging material by Organization 1.​

---------------------------
The charges...
Part of Charge 1

STONE failed to turn over and lied about the existence of responsive records to HPSCI’s requests about documents; STONE submitted and caused to be submitted a letter to HPSCI falsely and misleadingly describing communications with Person 2; and STONE attempted to have Person 2 testify falsely before HPSCI or prevent him from testifying. All in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1505 and 2​

The remainder of the charges

2 STONE testified falsely that he did not have emails with third parties about the head of Organization 1, and that he did not have any documents, emails, or text messages that refer to the head of Organization 1.
3 STONE testified falsely that his August 2016 references to being in contact with the head of Organization 1 were references to communications with a single “go-between,” “mutual friend,” and “intermediary,” who STONE identified as Person 2.
4 STONE testified falsely that he did not ask the person he referred to as his “go-between,” “mutual friend,” and “intermediary,” to communicate anything to the head of Organization 1 and did not ask the intermediary to do anything on STONE’s behalf.
5 STONE testified falsely that he and the person he referred to as his “go-between,” “mutual friend,” and “intermediary” did not communicate via text message or email about Organization 1.
6 STONE testified falsely that he had never discussed his conversations with the person he referred to as his “go-between,” “mutual...
​

Just a quick snippet from a 28 page indictment that Mindmaster considers "talking trash". The mind of a sheeple is truly amazing.

 

[Stanyon]

Thank you for finding and posting it.


This is what Mindmaster considers "talking trash".

12. After the July 22, 2016 release of stolen DNC emails by Organization 1, a senior Trump Campaign official was directed to contact STONE about any additional releases and what other damaging information Organization 1 had regarding the Clinton Campaign. STONE thereafter told the Trump Campaign about potential future releases of damaging material by Organization 1.​

---------------------------
The charges...
Part of Charge 1

STONE failed to turn over and lied about the existence of responsive records to HPSCI’s requests about documents; STONE submitted and caused to be submitted a letter to HPSCI falsely and misleadingly describing communications with Person 2; and STONE attempted to have Person 2 testify falsely before HPSCI or prevent him from testifying. All in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1505 and 2​

The remainder of the charges

2 STONE testified falsely that he did not have emails with third parties about the head of Organization 1, and that he did not have any documents, emails, or text messages that refer to the head of Organization 1.
3 STONE testified falsely that his August 2016 references to being in contact with the head of Organization 1 were references to communications with a single “go-between,” “mutual friend,” and “intermediary,” who STONE identified as Person 2.
4 STONE testified falsely that he did not ask the person he referred to as his “go-between,” “mutual friend,” and “intermediary,” to communicate anything to the head of Organization 1 and did not ask the intermediary to do anything on STONE’s behalf.
5 STONE testified falsely that he and the person he referred to as his “go-between,” “mutual friend,” and “intermediary” did not communicate via text message or email about Organization 1.
6 STONE testified falsely that he had never discussed his conversations with the person he referred to as his “go-between,” “mutual...
​

Just a quick snippet from a 28 page indictment that Mindmaster considers "talking trash". The mind of a sheeple is truly amazing.

None of which has anything to do with prosecutors misleading the court as to their sentencing recommendations or the fact that it is being spun as some Trump conspiracy.

 

[SoyLeche]

Fact-checking claims Trump made in defending Roger Stone - CNNPolitics

 

[sooda]

It seems the attorneys office misled the DOJ about their sentencing intentions so what did they expect? But in the "orange man bad" clown world all types of silly little conspiracy theories can be hatched, it seems such a simple matter to understand.

From article:
"The recommendation was higher than what the United States attorney’s office had told Justice Department officials it would suggest, according to the official, and the department decided soon after the filing to override the prosecutors’ decision."

It came after federal prosecutors in Washington asked a judge late Monday evening to sentence Mr. Stone to seven to nine years in prison on seven felony convictions for trying to sabotage a congressional investigation that threatened Mr. Trump.

 

[sooda]

None of which has anything to do with prosecutors misleading the court as to their sentencing recommendations or the fact that it is being spun as some Trump conspiracy.

7 felony convictions is not nothing.

 

[sooda]

Fact-checking claims Trump made in defending Roger Stone - CNNPolitics

Facts First: Only two of the four prosecutors who withdrew from the case worked on the team led by special counsel Robert Mueller that investigated ties between the Trump campaign and Russia. The claim that the prosecutors were "exposed" is misleading -- they made their sentencing recommendation in a public court filing, not in secret. And the Mueller investigation was not illegal.
Multiple federal courts have upheld the legality of Mueller's appointment and endorsed actions he took, such as subpoenaing witnesses to testify before a grand jury and bringing criminal charges against some senior Trump aides.

 

[sooda]

Judge Amy Berman Jackson
Trump responded Tuesday to a tweet about Amy Berman Jackson, a federal judge in Washington who's overseeing the Stone trial and who presided over other cases resulting from the Mueller investigation. Trump tweeted: "Is this the Judge that put Paul Manafort in SOLITARY CONFINEMENT, something that not even mobster Al Capone had to endure? How did she treat Crooked Hillary Clinton? Just asking!"
Facts First: Jackson did not "put Paul Manafort in solitary confinement." She sent Manafort to jail because he broke the law while out on bail, but she didn't pick the jail and didn't order him to be held in a cell by himself. And he was not subjected to the harsh conditions experienced by prisoners who are sent to solitary confinement for disciplinary reasons.

 

[Stanyon]

7 felony convictions is not nothing.

None of which has anything to do with prosecutors misleading the court as to their sentencing recommendations

 

[metis]

7 felony convictions is not nothing.

But it is to those who will defend Trump regardless as to whatever he says and does. And we should remember Trump's "5th Avenue" boast as he certainly was at least right about that.

 

[metis]

None of which has anything to do with prosecutors misleading the court as to their sentencing recommendations or the fact that it is being spun as some Trump conspiracy.

You get your "news" from Fox, right?

The reality is that even though the DOJ recommendations are quite harsh, what Stone was doing was basically to threaten witnesses and even the judge-- remember her picture with a bull's-eye on her?

Also, it is unethical for Trump to try and interfere in this as he certainly did but then denied it. There is a long-standing division between the president and the DOJ on court proceedings, purposely written so as to try an keep out excessive and possibly self-serving interference. After the verdict is given, then the president could use his pardoning power.

 

[Ouroboros]

Judge Amy Berman Jackson
Trump responded Tuesday to a tweet about Amy Berman Jackson, a federal judge in Washington who's overseeing the Stone trial and who presided over other cases resulting from the Mueller investigation. Trump tweeted: "Is this the Judge that put Paul Manafort in SOLITARY CONFINEMENT, something that not even mobster Al Capone had to endure? How did she treat Crooked Hillary Clinton? Just asking!"
Facts First: Jackson did not "put Paul Manafort in solitary confinement." She sent Manafort to jail because he broke the law while out on bail, but she didn't pick the jail and didn't order him to be held in a cell by himself. And he was not subjected to the harsh conditions experienced by prisoners who are sent to solitary confinement for disciplinary reasons.

And I suspect Trump has never done the Alcatraz tour... I have. I have seen the cell Al Capone was in. Seriously doubt Manafort was in a cell like that. LOL! Such a ridiculous comparison.

 

[sooda]

And I suspect Trump has never done the Alcatraz tour... I have. I have seen the cell Al Capone was in. Seriously doubt Manafort was in a cell like that. LOL! Such a ridiculous comparison.

Trump is incredibly ignorant. He just makes it up as he goes along and he NEVER shuts up so he has lots of opportunity to demonstrate his stupidity.

 

[pearl]

The move is highly unusual and is certain to generate allegations of political interference. It came after federal prosecutors in Washington asked a judge late Monday evening to sentence Mr. Stone to seven to nine years in prison on seven felony convictions for trying to sabotage a congressional investigation that threatened Mr. Trump.

There ought to be no surprise here. Below is how Hillary Clinton's concession speech should have stated;

“Thank you, my friends. Thank you. Thank you. We have lost. We have lost, and this is the last day of my political career, so I will say what must be said. We are standing at the edge of the abyss. Our political system, our society, our country itself are in greater danger than at any time in the last century and a half. The president-elect has made his intentions clear, and it would be immoral to pretend otherwise. We must band together right now to defend the laws, the institutions, and the ideals on which our country is based.”

I have lived in autocracies most of my life, and have spent much of my career writing about Vladimir Putin’s Russia. I have learned a few rules for surviving in an autocracy and salvaging your sanity and self-respect. It might be worth considering them now:
Rule #1: Believe the autocrat. He means what he says.
Trump rally crowds have chanted “Lock her up!” They, and he, meant every word.
Trump has made his plans clear, and he has made a compact with his voters to carry them out. These plans include not only dismantling legislation such as Obamacare but also doing away with judicial restraint—and, yes, punishing opponents. And since Trump plans to use the judicial system to carry out his political vendettas, his pick for attorney general will be no less important.
humans seem to have evolved to practice denial when confronted publicly with the unacceptable. Back in the 1930s, The New York Times assured its readers that Hitler’s anti-Semitism was all posture.
Institutions will not save you. It took Putin a year to take over the Russian media and four years to dismantle its electoral system; the judiciary collapsed unnoticed. The capture of institutions in Turkey has been carried out even faster, by a man once celebrated as the democrat to lead Turkey into the EU. Poland has in less than a year undone half of a quarter century’s accomplishments in building a constitutional democracy.
Rule #6: Remember the future. Nothing lasts forever. Donald Trump certainly will not, and Trumpism, to the extent that it is centered on Trump’s persona, will not either. Failure to imagine the future may have lost the Democrats this election. They offered no vision of the future to counterbalance Trump’s all-too-familiar white-populist vision of an imaginary past. They had also long ignored the strange and outdated institutions of American democracy that call out for reform—like the electoral college, which has now cost the Democratic Party two elections in which Republicans won with the minority of the popular vote. That should not be normal. But resistance—stubborn, uncompromising, outraged—should be.
November 10, 2016, 5:26 pm
Autocracy: Rules for Survival