"Stop looking at these kids as heroes," says vet who made war documentary.

[Duke_Leto]

We must remember that the military is a collection of
individuals, the shared culture & training notwithstanding.
There are both good & bad people in it.

Obviously. But the good ones don’t volunteer to murder.

 

[Twilight Hue]

How am I as an American ‘served’ by the Vietnam War, the Korean War, the Iraq War, or the Afghan War? They don’t serve their country; they serve the interest of the state and the military-industrial complex.

All of them involved very nasty people and I'm not talking about the allied side either.

 

[Duke_Leto]

What a radical post. Why go so far? You should be careful what you read.

If advocating the prevention of murder is radical, then I’m proud of it.

 

[Duke_Leto]

All of them involved very nasty people and I'm not talking about the allied side either.

That’s not an answer.

 

[Revoltingest]

Obviously. But the good ones don’t volunteer to murder.

I disagree (if by "murder" you mean justifiable kills in battle).

 

[Valjean]

But is the battle justifiable?
People make much of the sanctity and value of human life, but only when it's a countryman's life.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Yes every member in my unit. That's evidence enough

Didn't answer the "but what does this folksy platitude actually mean?" part of my post, which I'd saw was the more important part.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Didn't answer the "but what does this folksy platitude actually mean?" part of my post, which I'd saw was the more important part.

Good thing you were never in my unit. A lot of us didn't have that kind of attitude. But I suppose that was then, and this is now. Real shame.

Soldiers think of two things that are top priority, their country, and their fellow soldiers.

 

[Cooky]

If advocating the prevention of murder is radical, then I’m proud of it.

If the U.S. never took part in war, I think the world would be much more Russian... much more communist.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Good thing you were never in my unit. A lot of us didn't have that kind of attitude.

WHAT kind of attitude??!

But I suppose that was then, and this is now. Real shame.

Soldiers think of two things that are top priority, their country, and their fellow soldiers.

Still the platitudes, but now sanctimony as well? Cool. I'll take that as a result of the cognitive dissonance, generated from the fact you can't answer my question.

 

[pearl]

Corrupt and wrongful usage of the military by venal, flawed politicians does not diminish military members' courage and dedication. It's also possible to be "an effective soldier" without "abdicat(ing) moral responsibility"

How true. It is Congress that wages war not the military.
As for the moral dilemma, choosing between following orders or ones conscience is often not an option. For some veterans as age increases so does guilt.

 

[Valjean]

If the U.S. never took part in war, I think the world would be much more Russian... much more communist.

More Russian? How would that have come about?
More communist? Perhaps. The US has been a major impediment to democracy for most of its history.

 

[Valjean]

How true. It is Congress that wages war not the military.

But can the actor abdicate moral responsibility for his actions? Can leaders actually take the sins of the actual perpetrators upon themselves?

"Just following orders" was ruled an invalid defense, under international law, at Nuremberg.

 

[Revoltingest]

But is the battle justifiable?

I'd hope so.
But we cannot depend upon government to get that right.

 

[Woberts]

More Russian? How would that have come about?

The big bad USSR would make the freedom living conservatives wear furry hats! Oh, the humanity!

 

[pearl]

But can the actor abdicate moral responsibility for his actions?

I think that would depend on the individual. Some cannot, the reason for later guilt.

"Just following orders" was ruled an invalid defense, under international law, at Nuremberg.

As it ought to have been and was held up in the Mi Lai Vietnam incident. But if our women and men do not believe they are in It for the greater good, I feel that would be the end of a volunteer military.

 

[Revoltingest]

As it ought to have been and was held up in the Mi Lai Vietnam incident. But if our women and men do not believe they are in It for the greater good, I feel that would be the end of a volunteer military.

Without a volunteer military,
soldiers will be in it simply to avoid prison.
That would make them more ethical?

 

[Valjean]

The big bad USSR would make the freedom living conservatives wear furry hats! Oh, the humanity!

I'm not worried. With global warming there will soon be no further need need for furry hats.

What I wonder about is how history would have unfolded had the US not set itself up as an active enemy of the USSR; if there had been no 'cold war'.

Without a volunteer military,
soldiers will be in it simply to avoid prison.
That would make them more ethical?

With forced military "service," the general public would suddenly have a personal stake in US foreign policy. The powers-that-be want to avoid the public uprising that would ensue at all costs.
Maintaining and extending the empire would become much more difficult.

 

[pearl]

Without a volunteer military,
soldiers will be in it simply to avoid prison.
That would make them more ethical?

Without a volunteer military we would revert to a draft once again, the end of which is claimed by my generation. This time around hopefully college is not an automatic deferment, or foot spurs.

 

[Revoltingest]

With forced military "service," the general public would suddenly have a personal stake in US foreign policy. The powers-that-be want to avoid the public uprising that would ensue at all costs.
Maintaining and extending the empire would become much more difficult.

I understand that it can be useful to hold a lottery to pick healthy heterosexual
young males who aren't clergymen or politically connected to go off & die in a
FUBAR war in some s**thole country. Some portion of the country will rise up
in vocal opposition to the war.
But there are better ways to urge peaceful foreign policy....
- Don't vote for war mongers.
- Do vote for peaceniks.
- Be vocal against war even when the soldiers are volunteers.

But if a draft you want, let's limit it to....
- Wives, husbands, fathers, mothers, sons & daughters of Congressmen.