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Street Evangelists

arthurchappell

writer, poet, historian,
I see quite a lot of street evangelists in my home city. I have spoken with some of them. In some ways I can admire them. It takes a lot of guts to stand in the street yelling into a microphone in front of strangers (who mostly ignore them or heckle them) and some of the young speakers are quite articulate. It's a shame so much passion and genuine creative talent isn't being used to write books or speak on secular political issues. It seems a terrible waste.

Biblical quotes abound, often randomly inserted but the emphasis is generally on personal experiences on their own road to Damascus moment of epiphany.

The evangelists tend to follow quite a formulaic pattern of discourse. They tell their own conversion stories. They are usually lapsed believers who have become born again. They either went through pain, misery and suffering and then turned it round on conversion, or they lived a decadent, bohemian reckless lifestyle, found it empty, and then found God. Suddenly their lives turned around. It's like using washing powder A for years and suddenly finding the amazing Washing powder B that works better. The same sales pitch applies.

I don't doubt the truth of their life stories. I do think it was just finding any change in direction that spun things round. I only recently developed an obsession with photographing pubs and writing aboutthat, drawing me into a whole new circle of friends and modest adventures. The conversion can be to anything in a literal take on the saying, 'a change is as good as a rest'. Converts to Satanism or barn dancing could tell the same stories. It isn't what is embraced, but the sense of transformation brought about by redirecting your life, habits, practices, beliefs, main focus points and principles. We are made by what preoccupies us so in developing a preoccupation with religion, the convert is changed, and may genuinely feel a better person for it. The problem is that they attribute the change to the external focus of their new awakening. To say God fixed them would be like me saying pubs love me and want me to take photos of them. The change comes from me.

The ex-alcoholic or ex-junkie who kicked the habit and says God saved them is putting himself down - he saved himself, not God, not even the medics, and councillors, though they helped (unlike God). The change came from the self, the same self finding the guts and creative energy to speak out, - though many evangelists claim and believe God is talking through them. It is actually tragic yet fascinating.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member
Nice observations.

If God is defined as a creator AND all humans have the capacity to create THEN humans can be called "God". So in a way "God talks to them" is not so far off IMO.
 

Marcion

gopa of humanity's controversial Taraka Brahma
It depends. If they are of the type that stands foaming from the mouth shouting into a microphone that you need to escape from the clutches of the Devil and embrace the one and only Christ Saviour then I walk past fast. But if it is a group of let's say Armenian christians standing in a half circle singing hymns, playing on musical instruments and explaining their faith, then I will stop for a while to listen to them and observe what type of people they appear to be.

There is nothing wrong in advertising your life style if you think it can be beneficial to others.
 

arthurchappell

writer, poet, historian,
Just what is being debated here?
I guess i'm challenging those who think those who promote religion are just dumb - pointing out that the evangelists I ,eet are often intelligent, articulate and reflective and that if they applied their religious thinking to other activity instead they might well do great things for society
 

Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member
I guess i'm challenging those who think those who promote religion are just dumb - pointing out that the evangelists I ,eet are often intelligent, articulate and reflective and that if they applied their religious thinking to other activity instead they might well do great things for society

Most of them actually aren't intelligent. They're just charismatic enough to make themselves appear to be intelligent. A good talker can convince a lot of people, even if he's talking nonsense.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member
Most of them actually aren't intelligent. They're just charismatic enough to make themselves appear to be intelligent. A good talker can convince a lot of people, even if he's talking nonsense.

At least he is intelligent enough to fool others to believe in his thinking.
 
I see quite a lot of street evangelists in my home city. I have spoken with some of them. In some ways I can admire them. It takes a lot of guts to stand in the street yelling into a microphone in front of strangers (who mostly ignore them or heckle them) and some of the young speakers are quite articulate. It's a shame so much passion and genuine creative talent isn't being used to write books or speak on secular political issues. It seems a terrible waste.

Biblical quotes abound, often randomly inserted but the emphasis is generally on personal experiences on their own road to Damascus moment of epiphany.

The evangelists tend to follow quite a formulaic pattern of discourse. They tell their own conversion stories. They are usually lapsed believers who have become born again. They either went through pain, misery and suffering and then turned it round on conversion, or they lived a decadent, bohemian reckless lifestyle, found it empty, and then found God. Suddenly their lives turned around. It's like using washing powder A for years and suddenly finding the amazing Washing powder B that works better. The same sales pitch applies.

I don't doubt the truth of their life stories. I do think it was just finding any change in direction that spun things round. I only recently developed an obsession with photographing pubs and writing aboutthat, drawing me into a whole new circle of friends and modest adventures. The conversion can be to anything in a literal take on the saying, 'a change is as good as a rest'. Converts to Satanism or barn dancing could tell the same stories. It isn't what is embraced, but the sense of transformation brought about by redirecting your life, habits, practices, beliefs, main focus points and principles. We are made by what preoccupies us so in developing a preoccupation with religion, the convert is changed, and may genuinely feel a better person for it. The problem is that they attribute the change to the external focus of their new awakening. To say God fixed them would be like me saying pubs love me and want me to take photos of them. The change comes from me.

The ex-alcoholic or ex-junkie who kicked the habit and says God saved them is putting himself down - he saved himself, not God, not even the medics, and councillors, though they helped (unlike God). The change came from the self, the same self finding the guts and creative energy to speak out, - though many evangelists claim and believe God is talking through them. It is actually tragic yet fascinating.

I was agreeing with you until the last part. Not all credit should go to God, but sometimes God can give people meaning in life thus giving them the motivation to better themselves. You shouldn't try to discredit that just because you don't agree with their belief systems because in the end were all just humans trying to find meaning in their life.
 

arthurchappell

writer, poet, historian,
Most of them actually aren't intelligent. They're just charismatic enough to make themselves appear to be intelligent. A good talker can convince a lot of people, even if he's talking nonsense.

True, we only have to look at the current incumbant of the White House for that, but I find most evangelists are struggling to hold onto a feeling. Thier beliefs are more emotional than reasoned and they tend to use rhetoric to dupe themselves as much as others about their convictions. They can still be quite bright, and articulate people. If they put the same time and effort into other concerns they might actually do a great deal of good.
 

DPMartin

Member
I see quite a lot of street evangelists in my home city. I have spoken with some of them. In some ways I can admire them. It takes a lot of guts to stand in the street yelling into a microphone in front of strangers (who mostly ignore them or heckle them) and some of the young speakers are quite articulate. It's a shame so much passion and genuine creative talent isn't being used to write books or speak on secular political issues. It seems a terrible waste.

Biblical quotes abound, often randomly inserted but the emphasis is generally on personal experiences on their own road to Damascus moment of epiphany.

The evangelists tend to follow quite a formulaic pattern of discourse. They tell their own conversion stories. They are usually lapsed believers who have become born again. They either went through pain, misery and suffering and then turned it round on conversion, or they lived a decadent, bohemian reckless lifestyle, found it empty, and then found God. Suddenly their lives turned around. It's like using washing powder A for years and suddenly finding the amazing Washing powder B that works better. The same sales pitch applies.

I don't doubt the truth of their life stories. I do think it was just finding any change in direction that spun things round. I only recently developed an obsession with photographing pubs and writing aboutthat, drawing me into a whole new circle of friends and modest adventures. The conversion can be to anything in a literal take on the saying, 'a change is as good as a rest'. Converts to Satanism or barn dancing could tell the same stories. It isn't what is embraced, but the sense of transformation brought about by redirecting your life, habits, practices, beliefs, main focus points and principles. We are made by what preoccupies us so in developing a preoccupation with religion, the convert is changed, and may genuinely feel a better person for it. The problem is that they attribute the change to the external focus of their new awakening. To say God fixed them would be like me saying pubs love me and want me to take photos of them. The change comes from me.

The ex-alcoholic or ex-junkie who kicked the habit and says God saved them is putting himself down - he saved himself, not God, not even the medics, and councillors, though they helped (unlike God). The change came from the self, the same self finding the guts and creative energy to speak out, - though many evangelists claim and believe God is talking through them. It is actually tragic yet fascinating.


they are witnesses testifying of their own experience as they experienced it, how is your opinion who hasn't experienced God in the name of Jesus Christ more accurate, then their own experience?

by this OP of yours, you don't know a thing about it.
 

arthurchappell

writer, poet, historian,
they are witnesses testifying of their own experience as they experienced it, how is your opinion who hasn't experienced God in the name of Jesus Christ more accurate, then their own experience?

by this OP of yours, you don't know a thing about it.

You assume because I'm not a Christian now that I never was one. I was raised as a Catholic and I helped evangelize a Hindu cult I was in - Not doubting the validity of their life experiences, just their belief that God has any part in their recoveries or change in attitude to life. They are surrounded by believers. If they were surrounded by people passionate about any hobby you can think of, the psychology would be very similar.
 

DPMartin

Member
You assume because I'm not a Christian now that I never was one. I was raised as a Catholic and I helped evangelize a Hindu cult I was in - Not doubting the validity of their life experiences, just their belief that God has any part in their recoveries or change in attitude to life. They are surrounded by believers. If they were surrounded by people passionate about any hobby you can think of, the psychology would be very similar.


you may have called yourself a christain then, but you were never born again as Jesus says one must be in the first place since you are not a believer now. therefore you don't know the experience of being born again.

also maybe you are to smart to recognize those who are forgiven much are thankful much.

also being raised catholic doesn't really qualify anyone for anything but being familiar with their theologies, which are of men, like most denominations.
 

arthurchappell

writer, poet, historian,
being b
you may have called yourself a christain then, but you were never born again as Jesus says one must be in the first place since you are not a believer now. therefore you don't know the experience of being born again.

also maybe you are to smart to recognize those who are forgiven much are thankful much.

also being raised catholic doesn't really qualify anyone for anything but being familiar with their theologies, which are of men, like most denominations.

I went through a rediscovery of faith experience in moving from atheism to the cult, and in many ways a reversal of that in turning back to atheism on escaping the cult. I was 1/. Religious (Catholic) 2 Atheist 3/. Hindu cult recruit 4 Born again atheist -

While street evangelists are encouraging people to become born again they should not be so casually dismissive of the religious experiences anyone has already had in life or to impose labels on people as simple as born agains / not born agains - many Christians feel happy enough in he faith they have from first birth. Many once but no longer religious people will see their unburdening of the trappings of religion as enlightenment in its own right. We may well know your experience better than you imagine.
 

DPMartin

Member
being b


I went through a rediscovery of faith experience in moving from atheism to the cult, and in many ways a reversal of that in turning back to atheism on escaping the cult. I was 1/. Religious (Catholic) 2 Atheist 3/. Hindu cult recruit 4 Born again atheist -

While street evangelists are encouraging people to become born again they should not be so casually dismissive of the religious experiences anyone has already had in life or to impose labels on people as simple as born agains / not born agains - many Christians feel happy enough in he faith they have from first birth. Many once but no longer religious people will see their unburdening of the trappings of religion as enlightenment in its own right. We may well know your experience better than you imagine.


that's wonderful, you doing this and you doing that, and that has what to do with your inexperience with what a street evangelist might have experienced?

have a nice day
 

arthurchappell

writer, poet, historian,
I haven't been to China but I know it is there. I have spoken in front of many people on my beliefs, my feelings, my thoughts. There is no difference between your eagerness to sell your religious beliefs than the passions and life affirming / changing experiences of the call centre sales worker who believes in the company or product, the ecstasy of someone who just saw their favourite musician live, or my own conversion experiences when I deluded myself that a guru was my God - I'm not saying it will fade for you as it did for me but the process of going in, and being in is very similar for many (not all, but many). If I was talking to a follower of another faith they might well be using very similar arguments to your own. It might feel unique and special to you but don't assume others have not been there or somewhere very similar too. Just because I never bunjee jumped doesn't mean I don't know what is involved.
 
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