Strict Islamic dress - a question to those who wear this

[Poseidon Soter]

So, I'm not allowed to voice disapproval for a primitive gesture in supplication to a supposed god? Really?

In what way(s) is this a primitive gesture, to your mind?

 

[YmirGF]

I think your line of thinking is primitive just as I think your avatar is quite childish although I loved mighty mouse as a kid, but if I wanted to put on my Psychologist hat I could have a plethora of things to say about that but it doesn't stop you from keeping your avatar.

For whatever strange and ungodly reason I like you YmirGF and so I say this with warm gooey feelings.

Hehe. And if I put on my psychologist hat...

To be fair, I see MOST religious practices as being fairly primitive, highly superficial acts, that are designed to make the practitioner feel good about their sinful little selves.

 

[YmirGF]

In what way(s) is this a primitive gesture, to your mind?

Your question has a fairly complex answer which considers the psychology behind the imagined need for such acts. Keep in mind that I am a so-called strong atheist in that it's not that I don't believe in gods, but that I go further and claim there are no gods - certainly not as imagined by human animals. There is so little evidence for god(s) that one would think that theists have a perma-blush over the reality that there is little to backup their claims other than their emotional connection to an idea.

It is partly the idea that a god would look kindly on how you chose to dress AS IF a lowly little human animal is worthy of acknowledgment from a truly celestial being. Given the strong patriarchal underpinnings of this particular admonishment, to dress modestly, rather than how one simply pleases, it is more reasonable to see this as a male domination ploy which the women of the day simply acquiesced to given that they were virtually powerless to resist such an edict. Those who chose to wear it were elevated because they had gone along with what their illustrious leader demanded of them. Obedience, plus, like with the very public daily prayer, at a glance one could see who was naughty and who was nice. It was pretty amazing crowd control, really, to be part of the "in crowd" of that era.

There is a lot more but that is a good start.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Jews pay nothing to your Jewish Jesus as well..

As Salaam Alaikum.

I study Abrahamic and pre-Abrahamic belief, but would likely not be seen as a good Muslim. Jewish belief confuses me though, both Christianity and Islam seem cloned by it. In their Old Book, Jews, spend a lot of time alluding to him, but when the Christians said he came, they did not believe it. In the Quran, a whole Surah (Chapter) talks about Issa PBUH (Jesus the Christ), and all three Abrahamic beliefs look for him to return, or come in the future. It is all very fascinating to me, and I love to study and talk about belief but I do not judge or attack anyone because only Allah SWT does that. I am but a servant to God.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Hehe. And if I put on my psychologist hat...

To be fair, I see MOST religious practices as being fairly primitive, highly superficial acts, that are designed to make the practitioner feel good about their sinful little selves.

Heh heh, Psych folk are pretty odd.

 

[YmirGF]

Heh heh, Psych folk are pretty odd.

The difference is that "psych folks" are at least aware they are pretty odd. Most human animals think they are normal.

 

[Ellen Brown]

The difference is that "psych folks" are at least aware they are pretty odd. Most human animals think they are normal.

LOL, you have no idea how odd I am, and I'm not telling. The important part is I survived.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Hehe. And if I put on my psychologist hat...

To be fair, I see MOST religious practices as being fairly primitive, highly superficial acts, that are designed to make the practitioner feel good about their sinful little selves.

That is a famous critique about religion, and I'm sure some cosmic civilization in a far away galaxy may agree with you, but regardless of religion's primitive nature, it still provides a positive value to the individual.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

As Salaam Alaikum.

I study Abrahamic and pre-Abrahamic belief, but would likely not be seen as a good Muslim. Jewish belief confuses me though, both Christianity and Islam seem cloned by it. In their Old Book, Jews, spend a lot of time alluding to him, but when the Christians said he came, they did not believe it. In the Quran, a whole Surah (Chapter) talks about Issa PBUH (Jesus the Christ), and all three Abrahamic beliefs look for him to return, or come in the future. It is all very fascinating to me, and I love to study and talk about belief but I do not judge or attack anyone because only Allah SWT does that. I am but a servant to God.

Wa alaikum salaam...

Although I myself am not Muslim, I've established a reputation of defending Muslims and Islam here....What irks me are insensitive Christians who want to tear down Muslims for their belief yet follow a Jewish man named Jesus as a Messiah. Someone who many Jews believe failed his mission to establish himself as a messiah. So while Christians of this kind want to tear down Muslims (the same Muslims who believe Jesus is the Messiah), they remain silent to the Jews who think Jesus was a failure smh....

 

[Mock Turtle]

Heh heh, Psych folk are pretty odd.

But correct?

 

[Mock Turtle]

That is a famous critique about religion, and I'm sure some cosmic civilization in a far away galaxy may agree with you, but regardless of religion's primitive nature, it still provides a positive value to the individual.

Some individuals.

 

[Pastek]

In my opinion, the best Muslims are American converts, because they are more likely to read the Quran, Hadiths (The life of the Prophet and his sayings), and Fatwas (Rules on how to conduct your life). Most other countries have an Imam that is the only one who can read, so Muslims get his opinion.

Salam

Excuse-me but why americans in particular would be the best muslims ?
Why not the chilians, italians or japaneses ?

I don't think a convert is better than a muslim born muslim (not saying the muslims born are better either).
I've met some converts and some don't pray, don't fast, don't eat halal. (not saying it's the majority)
We even have seen that some new converts turned to extremism and went to Syria, Irak etc.
People tend to believe they studied more (i thought this too) but in reality it's not always like that.

Nowadays many muslims read Hadiths and previous Books too (Bible, comparative religions book,etc).
Maybe few decades ago the muslims just read the Quran and listened to their Imam but it changes since at least early 2000.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Salam

Excuse-me but why americans in particular would be the best muslims ?
Why not the chilians, italians or japaneses ?

I don't think a convert is better than a muslim born muslim (not saying the muslims born are better either).
I've met some converts and some don't pray, don't fast, don't eat halal. (not saying it's the majority)
We even have seen that some new converts turned to extremism and went to Syria, Irak etc.
People tend to believe they studied more (i thought this too) but in reality it's not always like that.

Nowadays many muslims read Hadiths and previous Books too (Bible, comparative religions book,etc).
Maybe few decades ago the muslims just read the Quran and listened to their Imam but it changes since at least early 2000.

I'll leave Ellen to answer your question, but can you tell me how many Muslims do you think believe in the age of Aisha being so low - and all the rest that follows?

 

[Pastek]

I'll leave Ellen to answer your question, but can you tell me how many Muslims do you think believe in the age of Aisha being so low - and all the rest that follows?

In general muslims used to ignore the age of Aicha.
It was bring those late years by non-muslims as debates concerning the morality of the prophet Muhammad.

So it's difficult to say if muslims in general have an interest to know those details.
Depend of what someone is teached or teached to himself.

 

[Mock Turtle]

In general muslims used to ignore the age of Aicha.
It was bring those late years by non-muslims as debates concerning the morality of the prophet Muhammad.

So it's difficult to say if muslims in general have an interest to know those details.
Depend of what someone is teached or teached to himself.

Thank you. It is often difficult to know about such things - as to what might be believed as opposed to what is actually believed. And no doubt in the past much was different anyway.

 

[columbus]

Excuse-me but why americans in particular would be the best muslims ?

I live in a religiously conservative part of the USA.

One of the things I hear regularly from Muslims around here is this. They like American freedom of religion. Because they can practice their Islam the way they think it should be. They don't have any autocratic kings or generals or imams telling them how they must be Muslim.
Or Else!

Tom

 

[columbus]

Where is Raif Badawi these days?
Tom

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

In their Old Book, Jews, spend a lot of time alluding to him, but ...

This is simply incorrect.

Many seek to reinterpret verses of the Tanakh as references to Jesus. Jews as a whole do not.

 

[Pastek]

I live in a religiously conservative part of the USA.

One of the things I hear regularly from Muslims around here is this. They like American freedom of religion. Because they can practice their Islam the way they think it should be. They don't have any autocratic kings or generals or imams telling them how they must be Muslim.
Or Else!

Tom

Ok, but like in other parts of the world.
Saying "american" muslims are better is quite presumptuous.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Wa alaikum salaam...

Although I myself am not Muslim, I've established a reputation of defending Muslims and Islam here....What irks me are insensitive Christians who want to tear down Muslims for their belief yet follow a Jewish man named Jesus as a Messiah. Someone who many Jews believe failed his mission to establish himself as a messiah. So while Christians of this kind want to tear down Muslims (the same Muslims who believe Jesus is the Messiah), they remain silent to the Jews who think Jesus was a failure smh....

I was freshly returned from a Missionary trip to Kenya, with a several day decompression session in Israel in 2001. I was shattered by the conditions for the Kenyans, most of whom spoke better English than I. In just a few months, the 9/11 "attack" would happen. To this day, I doubt the story that we were told about it, and the subsequent invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. Plainly to me, the west just wanted Iraqi oil, the reserves of which are said to be larger than Saudi Arabia has left.

American pseudo Christian attitudes about 9/11 soon made my old Evangelical beliefs feel repulsive to me. They completely ignored, and still do, the words of Jesus the Christ.

I've been pondering about why women were created, and how far we are from the original purpose of God. And yes, I have encountered men who want their women to be all that Genesis says, but want to drink, and whore about like savages.

No belief system makes sense to me. Only God.