Archaeopteryx said:
Why are you directly judging this man's character so pretentiously? When in a debate with someone, one is not challenging their opponent directly, but rather their opponent's argument. I do not believe you to have summed up Opethian's entire disposition from this argument sufficiently enough to be in a place to make such rash comments about him.
Well, who the hell knows what you mean, when you won't say what you mean?
Name one element of the known universe that you know not to be physical. Also, you are correct in stating that mass, while physical, is merely a [highly compressed] form of energy, which is also physical - So what's your point?
Now you claim that no material thing is truly physical, even when the entire definition of the word physical rests upon material things?
A dream is merely an involuntary sensory lapse occurring during the REM cycle of cerebral unconsciousness, generated by the cerebral cortex and catalyzed by the cerebellum. The entire process can be delineated by describing its many facets as physical interactions, so yes - Dreams are physical, just as farts are physical.
The dream itself is a physical interaction - One can detect and reproduce the many components of the interaction, just as one can detect and reproduce the components of an internal combustion engine cycle, or that of a washing machine or a human footstep. The entire interaction is merely the sum of those components, so yes.
I don't have to prove that I've had a dream to describe a dream in its entirety as a physical interaction.
A thought is merely a neurological, physical interaction. It continues to stand to reason that everything in the universe can be described by physical means, so there is no need for metaphysical speculation, and none presented can be logically justified.
Every time I leave, it seems someone new has come with more information to add. Welcome to the room Archaeopteryx.
I made it personal because he was debating the same point I was trying to make. What we call science and what we call spiritual matters are both reaching toward the same end. What is the difference if you know scientifically what melanin is, but an African has experience in how to use it?
I understand that science today calls energy physical but it is not the case. Physical things are really a form of energy (which existed first), not vice versa. Water may be a solid one day, liquid the next, and a gas the 3rd day. However that doesn't mean it is still a solid on the third day just because the material is the same (water).
"Physical" is a human perception. Energy is the only true reality. Let me show you what I mean in a different way to be clear. We see the planet Mercury as a physical object. But if I could shrink down to the size of a quark, I would not see a physical object. I would see forms of energy being attracted or repelled in different manners, which on a grander scale gives the illusion of a physical object. But it is all really energy.
So instead of saying energy itself is physical, the more correct way of saying it would be that all physical things come from energy. However I do realize we can argue this until the end, so i will agree to disagree. Just note that as much as you like to quote the textbook definitions of things, textbooks are changed yearly (at least). Theories are overturned in every generation. However, the princibles shared with the world from Egyptian alchemy have remained true for millenia.
If you are a freemason, you will understand what I am saying. If you are a Shriner, you should know exactly what I am saying.
So you and your friend want proof of something spiritually real that is not physically possible according to science? Sure, I will give you this. In the bible (Revelation 4:6,7) there are described 4 beasts, one each with the face of a lion, calf, man, and then eagle. This was an old teaching from ancient Egypt, symbolized by the Sphinx which originally had wings. These four images represent the four great empires of the western world before this era ends and another begins.
1. Lion - this represents babylon which was founded by Nimrod, a mighty hunter.
2. Calf - This represents Greece, which almost immediately split upon the death of Alexander the Great, just a the cloven hoof of a calf is split.
3. Man - This represents Rome as it most notably was ruled by Ceasers, who were as human gods.
4. Eagle - This is the final major empire, America (Western culture). It goes without saying that the eagle is America's symbol, however there is greater meaning. The eagle is a bird of prey (devours its prey) with great eyesight (we are in an age where more is seen and known then ever before) and talons (great weaponry). Yet many do not know that originally the pheonix was suggested to be america's symbol. America rose from the death of its native Americans and new life sprouted in their place with immigrants coming from Europe to begin this empire.
Somehow, without your technology and "science", we were able to see the major events that would shape the world during this 6,000 year period.
This is how today's science is a controlled industry. The Sphinx is officially dated to have been constructed around 2,500 BCE. However, watermarks on its body prove it is at least 10,000 years old. So why won't science revise their dates? Because they don't believe, even with proof, that African civilization could have been that advanced at that time. Thus, your textbook says 2,500 BCE but your textbook is wrong.
Your physical knowledge based on equations is correct however many of your concepts are wrong.
