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Strippers Protest/Picket Church
- Thread starter linwood
- Start date
Yep.
Was that from your tequila experiences or your "bad sex" experiences?
Was that from your tequila experiences or your "bad sex" experiences?
:jester3: People that say there is such a thing as "bad sex" are telling on themselves. :yes:
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angellous_evangellous
Guest
Was that from your tequila experiences or your "bad sex" experiences?
They kind of run together for some reason.
linwood
Well-Known Member
Smoke
Done here.
Why?
That is:
a) Why do you view it as a form of economic exploitation? and
b) Why is your view specifically socialist?
Seems to me it's no more exploitative than many other jobs. Why do you single it out?
Poll time! Which of the following is more exploitative?
1) A stripper earning $100/hour (including tips, of course)
2) A fast food worker earning $8/hour to supersize your order
3) A landlord who rents out buildings at below cost because that's what the market will bear.
4) A taxpayer who pays for all the bail-outs & assistance programs but isn't eligible for any of them.
I vote for #4.
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
I'll agree to #4 with one small change: "A taxpayer who pays for all the bail-outs".
Smoke
Done here.
Me, too. That poor guy needs to seek legal advice. Imagine having to pay for all the bail-outs and assistance programs out of your own pocket. Obviously, he must be fabulously wealthy, but still ...
I didn't realize it was one guy paying for all that. That's very unfair.
Well, to give him credit, we owe him for saving the world economy from another Great Depression. But of course, he didn't benefit from that himself.
He is very cross indeed!
Darkness
Psychoanalyst/Marxist
a) To borrow a phrase from Law and Order: SVU: "In the criminal justice system, sexually based offences are considered especially heinous." Sexuality is something intimate and personal, and we all recognise this in that rape is usually more traumatic than something like a non-fatal stabbing. Sex work, such as stripping and sex work, often offers a quick and easy way to earn needed money in a capitalist society. Too often, men and women are drawn into sex work that is degrading out of a need for subsistence or due to emotional/psychological issues. I am not argueing that nobody can find meaning and purpose, or enjoy doing sex work, but its track record is abysmal. Stripping and prostitution are intertwined, not to mention the often porous association with human trafficking.
b) As a social democrat (socialist) I believe in the partial-decommodification of labour. Thus, I belief that nobody should have to take a job, such as stripping or prostitution to get by that they would otherwise not want to take. I believe we need an education and rehabilitation program to equip girls and boys who are or would otherwise become prostitutes or strippers fulfil their human potential.
Sex is a special case with its own set of emotions and psychological underpinnings that simply cannot be placed in the same category as flipping burgers in McDonalds.
Smoke
Done here.
Why do you think it's degrading? I've known a lot of strippers, both male and female, and only knew one who thought it was degrading. I've known a far greater number of secretaries and school teachers who felt degraded by their work than strippers.
Do you think janitors, fast-food workers, and maids are fulfilling their human potential in some significant way that strippers and prostitutes aren't?
Darkness
Psychoanalyst/Marxist
I never stated I had a theoretical problem with stripping. It is a matter of functionality. And I think I already answered that sex-work creates a different dynamic that is not present in other lines of work. I could possibly be convinced to make an exception for stripping, but prostitution is just a barbaric practice that should have been done away with as ethical standards have evolved in the West.
In a world without socio-economic consequences, I would say that two people should be able to fight to the death for prize money if they wanted to. But I know and you know that is insane. Prostitution is a sick business that should be eradicated from the face of the Earth.
From Prostitution Research and Education: "It’s not the legal status of prostitution that causes the harm, it’s the prostitution itself. The longer she is in prostitution – legal or illegal - the more she is psychologically harmed and physically endangered.
Women who sell sex report high levels of physical and sexual violence, including verbal abuse, threats and intimidation - one UK study found that 63% of women in street and indoor prostitution had experienced violence. Selling access to her body parts and faking pleasure has a very negative psychological and motional impact on women. A study of prostituted women from nine countries found that two thirds met criteria for posttraumatic stress disorder which how profoundly stressful prostitution was for them.
In two studies of 186 victims of commercial sexual exploitation, women consistently indicated that prostitution establishments did little to protect them, regardless of whether the establishments were legal or illegal. One woman said, “The only time they protect
anyone is to protect the customers.”
One of these studies interviewed 146 victims of trafficking in 5 countries. Eighty percent of the women suffered physical violence from pimps and buyers and endured negative health consequences from the violence and sexual exploitation, regardless of whether the women were trafficked internationally or were in local prostitution.
Research on legal brothels in Nevada shows that legalisation does not protect prostituted women from the violence, abuse and psychological and physical injury that occur in illegal prostitution. In many senses the opposite might be true. A pan-European study also found that levels of violence were high in both indoor and outdoor settings and where brothels are regulated. In the Netherlands, where prostitution has been legal since 2000, the government is rethinking its approach as it is seeing more and more signals that abuse of women is continuing.
Legal prostitution in the Netherlands, Nevada, and in Australia has been connected with organized crime. Two-thirds of the legal brothels in Amsterdam’s red light district have been closed down because it was impossible to control organized crime, according to the mayor....
Since 1999, there have been reports that at least 80% of women in Dutch legal prostitution had been trafficked. In 2009, the Dutch government has closed approximately 2/3 of the legal brothels in Amsterdam because of its inability to control traffickers and other organized crime.
By the mid-1990s, 75% of women in legal German prostitution were from other countries, a majority trafficked from Eastern Europe. Trafficking of Asian women into Australian prostitution has been noted by the US State Department."
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Epicurus_UK
Grunge Monkey
This is all well and good until you consider that some people DO have a choice. Not everyone who works in the sex industry is forced into it. For some it's just much easier than working, for several reasons.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Regardless of ones personal moral stance on the subject, if it's their will it should be their right, as long as everyone involved are consenting adults and no innocent people are victimized in the process.
Darkness
Psychoanalyst/Marxist
Society routinely decides what is best for people. In the United States we have state laws that mandate drivers and passengers wear their seatbelt while the car is in motion. And we are now mandating that every able adult purchase health insurance coverage, which is routine in European states without a single-payer system. Why can't we mandate that women and men not engage in prostitution which puts their lives at risk?
Saying it is a persons right to sell their body for sex is ludicrous because it blatantly ignores the socio-economic and psychological factors driving every aspect of prostitution. There is no way to separate prostitution from victimisation and abuse. Every libertarian legalising experiment of prostitution has failed miserably. Even the libertine Netherlands is reconsidering its legalisation of prostitution, because abuse has become rampant. We should base our stance towards prostitution on the Swedish model, which criminalises the buying of sex, and decriminalises the selling of sex:"In Sweden prostitution is regarded as an aspect of male violence against women and children. It is officially acknowledged as a form of exploitation of women and children and constitutes a significant social problem... gender equality will remain unattainable so long as men buy, sell and exploit women and children by prostituting them." We should do the same for male prostitutes.