Student Expelled for Casting a Spell

[dyanaprajna2011]

I've never seen most of the stuff you've mentioned in where I've lived (I can't remember the last time we had Christmas breaks and Easter breaks and I've never seen a Nativity scene on public property, for example). I think you should keep in mind that your experiences where you live don't speak for everyone and not all Christians in America behave in the way you're describing.

Which is why I included the example from California, an area that something like this isn't normally expected. The South, the Midwest, the Plains, nearly everywhere but the west coast and Florida, and possibly New England, this type of thinking is pretty high. I'm aware that not all Christians think that way, but when they're being loud enough to get their way, it really doesn't matter.

 

[Sunstone]

The last time I checked, around 76 % of the US was professing Christian. Every president has been a Christian, and it's taboo to even consider that the president could profess another belief. In states like Oklahoma and Kansas, teachers cannot teach evolution, but have to teach Christian creationism in science classes. State courthouses can entertain the idea that the Ten Commandments can be posted. Can you imagine if a Buddhist wanted to have a plaque of the Five Precepts posted? Christians would have that shut down immediately. Same goes if a Muslim wanted the Four Pillars posted.

Schools are always teaching things in line with Christian ideas, particularly when it comes to history. A school out in California wanted students to know about different cultures, and had the kids participate in some sort of Islamic cultural thing. Christians put a stop to that quick. Yet it's taboo if anyone even entertains the idea that schools shouldn't have Christmas parties. Hell, schools can't even have Halloween parties anymore due to the outcry from Christians. My son's school has to have a "fall party".

Christians don't like other religions being here in the US. And they're quick to voice such an opinion, and every time someone or a group from another religion even attempts to have some public display or some such, Christians put it down quick. Yet, nearly every town has a public Nativity display at Christmas. Towns have Easter programs. When was the last time you seen a public Vesak display?

I lived most of my life in the South, and now live in the Midwest. I don't normally voice my opinions when they go against what the Christians around me believe, because I've felt the backlash before. My liberal, Buddhist ideas are not well received, and they're fully allowed to let me know that, and I can't say anything about it. Well, I could, but I know what would happen if I did. I have before, and it wasn't good.

I find it hilarious that Christians think they're persecuted here, when, 9 times out of 10, they get their way in persecuting other religions. So no, I'm not joking.

From what I understand, it varies by region or location how much certain Christians attempt to get away with. In heavily fundamentalist or evangelical communities, they seem more likely to do the sorts of things you mention than in more mainstream Christian communities. But I think you've mentioned some very pertinent facts.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Which is why I included the example from California, an area that something like this isn't normally expected. The South, the Midwest, the Plains, nearly everywhere but the west coast and Florida, and possibly New England, this type of thinking is pretty high. I'm aware that not all Christians think that way, but when they're being loud enough to get their way, it really doesn't matter.

In Maine, there are public nativity scenes and plenty of calls for "keep Christ in Christmas" and mean-spirited "Merry Christmases" in response to "Happy Holidays," as if spitting out "Merry Christmas" in retaliation will somehow uphold Christian values.

I'm perfectly okay with public Christmas celebrations and such, by the way, as long as we remain free to publicly do other things. I'm for religious freedom in all arenas, not just for myself. But there is an irony in seeing all the fuss made over Christmas, and then declaring there is a "war on Christmas."

 

[Sunstone]

I think it's worth keeping in mind that when 85% of the American population are Christians, 85% of the jerks among us are likely to be Christian too. That is, assuming jerks are not disproportionately represented in any one group (other than Chicken Egg Sexers. Chicken Egg Sexers are quite often jerks, I've heard. Or, maybe I've heard they're quite often jerking off. At my age, you so often forget the difference).

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

In Maine, there are public nativity scenes and plenty of calls for "keep Christ in Christmas" and mean-spirited "Merry Christmases" in response to "Happy Holidays," as if spitting out "Merry Christmas" in retaliation will somehow uphold Christian values.

I'm perfectly okay with public Christmas celebrations and such, by the way, as long as we remain free to publicly do other things. I'm for religious freedom in all arenas, not just for myself. But there is an irony in seeing all the fuss made over Christmas, and then declaring there is a "war on Christmas."

I'll generally say Happy Holidays. That's what it is. I don't know who I'm talking to, if they celebrate Christmas or Hanukkah, or whatever else. It's just more polite. The only war on Christmas is the one that Christians should be waging against the capitalistic takeover of it, but that's another story for another thread.

I don't generally have a problem with Nativity scenes or anything else like that. But I can imagine the outcry from the Christians if I tried to put up a small Buddha statue in my yard, or on my porch, in celebration of Vesak. Christians have the idea that they should be privileged in this nation, and all other religions should just be ignored. That's what bothers me. And I don't buy into the whole "that's just a generalization" bit, because it's been like that everywhere I've been, which is practically everywhere east of the Mississippi; granted, that's not alot, but then you hear stories coming out of everywhere of the same things. I think it's more of a majority than people realize. Even nominal Christians, who would generally consider themselves "non-practicing" act the same way.

The routine is getting old, and if people don't stand up to it, it's going to keep happening. I, for one, think that Christians shouldn't be the only one's with privileges, and that all religions should have just as much equal rights as any other. They need to get over their arrogance and conceitedness. They need to realize they don't have a run of this country, and practically every other religion on earth is represented here. This isn't a country for Christians, it's a country for the people, regardless of religion. I'm not looking to see this country turned into a Saudi Arabia for Christians. The problem is, is that it's getting closer to that. When the next Sarah Palin or Rick Santorum comes along, and actually gets elected, it's all going to be downhill for non-Christians. [/rant over]

 

[dawny0826]

Student Expelled for Casting a Spell - ABC News

Is this a true story? We have persecution of witches still in this country? Are we going back to medieval times?

People of all walks and religious persuasions are persecuted and harassed.

I'm inclined after reading the article to conclude that the girl has been unfairly targeted and the claim against her is asinine. I rarely agree with folks from the ACLU but I have to agree with the statement by Bell, that it's going to be challenging to prove that she made someone sick thru spell casting.

However, there are other things mentioned in the article that I think important to consider, at least for myself, before drawing solid conclusions.

The article specifically mentions that her rights were violated when notebooks were seized and she was barred from wearing the pentagram and from drawing specific depictions.

Within what type of context did these events transpire?

The school doesn't have the right to seize personal property as a rule of thumb, but, it would if a student were violating school rules by writing in such notebooks during classroom time, as an example.

If wearing a pentagram happened to compound upon any pre-existing distractions or cause unnecessary distractions, the school could absolutely request that the student remove it. Unless students of certain religious persuasion were being denied the opportunity to wear such symbols, while others could, this wouldn't be a demonstration of religious persecution. The school is responsible for managing that which may distract or deter from the learning environment.

I can't make assumptions as to what transpired. This may very well be a situation of overreactive adults, targeting a teen unfairly out of ignorance and bigotry or possibly more. I have to remain open to the possibility of there being more to the story than this.

In the event that she was engaging in religious-specific writings during class and gave her teacher reason to fear her in some way - as far fetched and unlikely as that is - it has to be ruled out as a possibility and the media does a terrible job of demonstrating all aspects of a situation.

 

[Alceste]

Oh. My. God. Stories like these make me doubt that Christian fundamentalists are capable of acting professionally in the context of a secular education system.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Oh. My. God. Stories like these make me doubt that Christian fundamentalists are capable of acting professionally in the context of a secular education system.

Yeah, that's probably why they'd like to get rid of it and send us back to the dark ages.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I'll generally say Happy Holidays. That's what it is. I don't know who I'm talking to, if they celebrate Christmas or Hanukkah, or whatever else. It's just more polite. The only war on Christmas is the one that Christians should be waging against the capitalistic takeover of it, but that's another story for another thread.

I don't generally have a problem with Nativity scenes or anything else like that. But I can imagine the outcry from the Christians if I tried to put up a small Buddha statue in my yard, or on my porch, in celebration of Vesak. Christians have the idea that they should be privileged in this nation, and all other religions should just be ignored. That's what bothers me. And I don't buy into the whole "that's just a generalization" bit, because it's been like that everywhere I've been, which is practically everywhere east of the Mississippi; granted, that's not alot, but then you hear stories coming out of everywhere of the same things. I think it's more of a majority than people realize. Even nominal Christians, who would generally consider themselves "non-practicing" act the same way.

The routine is getting old, and if people don't stand up to it, it's going to keep happening. I, for one, think that Christians shouldn't be the only one's with privileges, and that all religions should have just as much equal rights as any other. They need to get over their arrogance and conceitedness. They need to realize they don't have a run of this country, and practically every other religion on earth is represented here. This isn't a country for Christians, it's a country for the people, regardless of religion. I'm not looking to see this country turned into a Saudi Arabia for Christians. The problem is, is that it's getting closer to that. When the next Sarah Palin or Rick Santorum comes along, and actually gets elected, it's all going to be downhill for non-Christians. [/rant over]

I agree with you. I've been tempted to put up a giant pentacle decorated in Christmas lights just to see the reaction. I'm not overly quiet about my pagan rituals, but I don't show them off either. It helps that I'm on a dead end dirt road.

 

[McBell]

There's no scientific evidence that casting a spell works any better than praying -- which is to say, there's no hard evidence either work at all. If you're going to expel a student for casting a malevolent or malicious spell, you should expel other students for any malevolent or malicious prayers they engage in. Of course, that would probably in practice require you to expel entire student bodies following games with a school's most bitter sports rival.

On the other hand, it could be argued, I think, that schools have a moral obligation to society to teach students to think realistically about themselves and the world. That obligation, if it exists, might seem to be at conflict with treating spells and prayers as if they were effective.

Maybe the best course, then, would be to send the kids to the school psychologist or counselor? I mean, I would think you'd want to know why the kid harbored such animosity. There might even be some basis for that animosity -- perhaps the teacher is harassing the kid. And I'd think you'd want to do something to root out any possible problems the kid has connecting with reality, too.

Seems to me it is not the student who "cast the spell" who needs to see a shrink but rather those who think expelling the student for "casting a spell" should see a shrink.


One of the things I noticed that is not touched on is the idea that in expelling this student for "casting a spell" are they not acknowledging the legitimacy of witchcraft?

One would think that the expulsion of a magic user for using magic would most certainly peek the interest of potential magic users, no?

 

[Monk Of Reason]

The last time I checked, around 76 % of the US was professing Christian. Every president has been a Christian, and it's taboo to even consider that the president could profess another belief. In states like Oklahoma and Kansas, teachers cannot teach evolution, but have to teach Christian creationism in science classes. State courthouses can entertain the idea that the Ten Commandments can be posted. Can you imagine if a Buddhist wanted to have a plaque of the Five Precepts posted? Christians would have that shut down immediately. Same goes if a Muslim wanted the Four Pillars posted.

Schools are always teaching things in line with Christian ideas, particularly when it comes to history. A school out in California wanted students to know about different cultures, and had the kids participate in some sort of Islamic cultural thing. Christians put a stop to that quick. Yet it's taboo if anyone even entertains the idea that schools shouldn't have Christmas parties. Hell, schools can't even have Halloween parties anymore due to the outcry from Christians. My son's school has to have a "fall party".

Christians don't like other religions being here in the US. And they're quick to voice such an opinion, and every time someone or a group from another religion even attempts to have some public display or some such, Christians put it down quick. Yet, nearly every town has a public Nativity display at Christmas. Towns have Easter programs. When was the last time you seen a public Vesak display?

I lived most of my life in the South, and now live in the Midwest. I don't normally voice my opinions when they go against what the Christians around me believe, because I've felt the backlash before. My liberal, Buddhist ideas are not well received, and they're fully allowed to let me know that, and I can't say anything about it. Well, I could, but I know what would happen if I did. I have before, and it wasn't good.

I find it hilarious that Christians think they're persecuted here, when, 9 times out of 10, they get their way in persecuting other religions. So no, I'm not joking.

Just to correct you there is currently 0 states that ban teaching of evolution. There are a few states that teach creationism as well but evolution is required.